Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Crowder Out 8 Weeks

[crowhead76]

Bobby Portis isn't a luxury asset. He's essential. He averaged almost 10 rebounds a game last season in only 26 minutes of play. Who is going to make up for that kind of rebounding? Have you or any of the others who want to trade him ever thought of that?

You want to trade him AND PC for Norm Powell? A guy who averaged less than 3 rebounds in similar playing time and shot less efficiently? Norm Powell is a luxury.

Good rebounders don't grow on trees. I agree that everyone except Giannis and Lillard should be possibilities to trade, but you don't make the trade without figuring out who is going to make up for the rebounds (which are a big part of defense) and points.

You can make a good case that the Bucks need a Caruso or a Gary Payton type of player. But who is going to score off the bench? Who is going to make up for the rebounds?

How are they going to replace the 9-points and 9-boards on 46% TS he's averaged the last 10-games vs. Boston including the playoffs? That shouldn't be difficult. He's straight up the most exploitable mismatch against our biggest obstacle to another Finals appearance. Love the guy as a culture-setter, but you passing the blame onto Bud doesn't handwave what we've all seen the past couple years.

Saying he's the most exploitable mismatch doesn't make it true. Too many posters make absolute statements like this as if it's fact.

I can pick and choose stats like anyone. How's this?

In the championship series against the Suns, he played 14 and 5 minutes in the first two games and the Bucks got blown out in each game. Then Bud reluctantly played him a minimum of 18 minutes the final four games and the Bucks won every one, including BP scoring 16 in the closeout game.

His stats the last several years speak for themselves and the eye test in terms of scoring off the bench and having another great rebounder besides Giannis, can't be overstated.

I will admit, he's the one player that will get other teams eyes lit up if he becomes available. But it better be a big haul, not a sieve on defense who can't rebound.

Wenyen Gabriel can rebound and he just happens to play right up the road. Just pointing out I think that the Bucks have added players to the Herd this year to monitor in case Pat and Bobby become trade options. Gabriel's per 36 rebounding numbers are at least comparable to Bobby. I understand that he does not provide even remotely the same level of offense.

[RRyder823]

I've already seen too many people that are way too reluctant to part with that Portland 2nd rounder. It's still just a 2nd round pick and if it can be sweetener in a trade to upgrade the starting SG spot, then you trade it in a heartbeat every time. Bobby's a bit more difficult because of his value in the regular season, but once again we saw that he's just invisible out there against Boston, and wasn't much of a factor against Philly either.

Bobby continues to be a luxury asset. Great 82-game player on a value contract, but if he's getting constantly nerfed against our two biggest conference rivals and can't hold up defensively in a playoff series against either, then what's the point? He's the guy you most likely need to cash out on before he hits 30.

Bobby Portis isn't a luxury asset. He's essential. He averaged almost 10 rebounds a game last season in only 26 minutes of play. Who is going to make up for that kind of rebounding? Have you or any of the others who want to trade him ever thought of that?

You want to trade him AND PC for Norm Powell? A guy who averaged less than 3 rebounds in similar playing time and shot less efficiently? Norm Powell is a luxury.

Good rebounders don't grow on trees. I agree that everyone except Giannis and Lillard should be possibilities to trade, but you don't make the trade without figuring out who is going to make up for the rebounds (which are a big part of defense) and points.

You can make a good case that the Bucks need a Caruso or a Gary Payton type of player. But who is going to score off the bench? Who is going to make up for the rebounds?

How are they going to replace the 9-points and 9-boards on 46% TS he's averaged the last 10-games vs. Boston including the playoffs? That shouldn't be difficult. He's straight up the most exploitable mismatch against our biggest obstacle to another Finals appearance. Love the guy as a culture-setter, but you passing the blame onto Bud doesn't handwave what we've all seen the past couple years.

I'm not above trading Bobby but trading him does create a pretty massive hole in terms of backup bigs.

Sure he has matchup issues in the POs. Brook does also. We're pretty thin up front after Giannis/Brook/Bobby.

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[skones]

I'm not above trading Bobby but trading him does create a pretty massive hole in terms of backup bigs.

Sure he has matchup issues in the POs. Brook does also. We're pretty thin up front after Giannis/Brook/Bobby.

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There aren't horrible options out there on the free agency market to be honest. Nerlens Noel is interesting given what Griffin insists on running.

[Dick Tate]

Trading Bobby would likely result in Rolo playoff minutes. Is that something y'all want to see?

[skones]

Trading Bobby would likely result in Rolo playoff minutes. Is that something y'all want to see?

This team has never brought in players to fill postseason gaps. Ever.

[Dick Tate]

Trading Bobby would likely result in Rolo playoff minutes. Is that something y'all want to see?

This team has never brought in players to fill postseason gaps. Ever.

If they use the Portland 2nd to trade for Powell, what's left to land the next Ibaka?

[emunney]

I'm not above trading Bobby but trading him does create a pretty massive hole in terms of backup bigs.

Sure he has matchup issues in the POs. Brook does also. We're pretty thin up front after Giannis/Brook/Bobby.

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There aren't horrible options out there on the free agency market to be honest. Nerlens Noel is interesting given what Griffin insists on running.

Wenyen Gabriel right up 41.

[Ron Swanson]

Bobby played 18 MPG during the Finals run with some DNP's sprinkled in cuz matchups. He plays less than that in the Miami series last postseason if Giannis doesn't wreck his back in Game 1 (12 and 16 minutes the final two games). I don't like to speak ill of Bobby, but some of you guys are really overrating how important he's been to the playoff roster.

Inb4 "It was all Bud's fault"

[emunney]

I'd hate to trade any of the '21 guys, but trading Jrue kind of broke the seal on that sentimentality. It'd have to be a clear and immediate upgrade in both fit and quality though. Tall order.

[MrHoneycutt]

Trading Bobby would likely result in Rolo playoff minutes. Is that something y'all want to see?

I'm not disagreeing, but depending on the matchup Bobby himself is unplayable as well (or at least he has been in the past), so it's definitely a conundrum all the way around.

[slos]

Trading Bobby could lead to 10ish RoLo playoff minutes, but it could also lead to cutting Beasley’s 30 minutes at the starting SG slot. That said I wouldn’t mind using both Bobby’s/Pat’s salaries/value for a starting calibre SG.

[BigO]

Trading Bobby would likely result in Rolo playoff minutes. Is that something y'all want to see?

I'm not disagreeing, but depending on the matchup Bobby himself is unplayable as well (or at least he has been in the past), so it's definitely a conundrum all the way around.

Nope. Not gonna let the "unplayable" tag sit. Bud didn't play him in the Nets series and some of you take it for gospel that Bud had to be right in that decision. I guess every decision Bud made was a good one.

Here's a suggestion. I'll agree that some of you think Portis is unplayable against certain teams and I will continue to think he should play in every series, unless the Bucks get a lot more talent to play ahead of him.

By the way, Portis was 13th in the league in rebounding last season and every one ahead of him played a lot more minutes.

[Baddy Chuck]

John Collins could score points and grab some rebounds. Traded for Rudy Gay and a second round pick.
Montrezl Harrell could score some points and grab some rebounds. Former sixth man of the year. Free agent.

[Prez]

Trading Bobby would likely result in Rolo playoff minutes. Is that something y'all want to see?

I'm not disagreeing, but depending on the matchup Bobby himself is unplayable as well (or at least he has been in the past), so it's definitely a conundrum all the way around.

Nope. Not gonna let the "unplayable" tag sit. Bud didn't play him in the Nets series and some of you take it for gospel that Bud had to be right in that decision. I guess every decision Bud made was a good one.

Here's a suggestion. I'll agree that some of you think Portis is unplayable against certain teams and I will continue to think he should play in every series, unless the Bucks get a lot more talent to play ahead of him.

By the way, Portis was 13th in the league in rebounding last season and every one ahead of him played a lot more minutes.

Also last season we had a 121 DRTG (which would be dead last in the league) in Bobby’s minutes WITH Giannis on the court as the 4/5 duo. In Giannis/Brook minutes or even the minutes with Giannis as the lone big and no other C on court with him, we had the equivalent of the #1 defense in those minutes. Players also shot 67% at the rim against Bobby, one of the lowest marks among big men with enough playing time.

I'm not really sure why we're choosing to focus exclusively on rebounding here, as though there aren't other hugely important parts of the game that Bobby is a problem in. Depending on the return, what we lose in Bobby's rebounding we could more than make up in other areas like defensive speed/quickness/versatility, playmaking, etc.

[ReasonablySober]

John Collins could score points and grab some rebounds. Traded for Rudy Gay and a second round pick.
Montrezl Harrell could score some points and grab some rebounds. Former sixth man of the year. Free agent.

John Collins was also making $25 million a year.

[Baddy Chuck]

John Collins could score points and grab some rebounds. Traded for Rudy Gay and a second round pick.
Montrezl Harrell could score some points and grab some rebounds. Former sixth man of the year. Free agent.

John Collins was also making $25 million a year.

Probably a good indication that you shouldn't overrate "points and rebounds".

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Bobby played 18 MPG during the Finals run with some DNP's sprinkled in cuz matchups. He plays less than that in the Miami series last postseason if Giannis doesn't wreck his back in Game 1 (12 and 16 minutes the final two games). I don't like to speak ill of Bobby, but some of you guys are really overrating how important he's been to the playoff roster.

Inb4 "It was all Bud's fault"

Yeah, some of that may have been Bud, but you just couldn't trust him some games. The talent is there but you could tell he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it drove Bud bonkers. He was unplayable against the Nets and if i remember correctly he only go decent minutes due to the Hawks series.

ETA: 3 DNPs against the Nets, low teens against Hawks until Giannis died and he played in the 30s, until Giannis rose from the dead for the Suns series.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Montrezl Harrell could score some points and grab some rebounds. Former sixth man of the year. Free agent.

I was going to make a comment that dude was washed and realized he is just 29 years old. Would've guessed 34. Guess being a 6'7" big with no shooting doesn't help.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Montrezl Harrell could score some points and grab some rebounds. Former sixth man of the year. Free agent.

I was going to make a comment that dude was washed and realized he is just 29 years old. Would've guessed 34. Guess being a 6'7" big with no shooting doesn't help.

Harrell tore his ACL in August.

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[BigO]

I'm not disagreeing, but depending on the matchup Bobby himself is unplayable as well (or at least he has been in the past), so it's definitely a conundrum all the way around.

Nope. Not gonna let the "unplayable" tag sit. Bud didn't play him in the Nets series and some of you take it for gospel that Bud had to be right in that decision. I guess every decision Bud made was a good one.

Here's a suggestion. I'll agree that some of you think Portis is unplayable against certain teams and I will continue to think he should play in every series, unless the Bucks get a lot more talent to play ahead of him.

By the way, Portis was 13th in the league in rebounding last season and every one ahead of him played a lot more minutes.

Also last season we had a 121 DRTG (which would be dead last in the league) in Bobby’s minutes WITH Giannis on the court as the 4/5 duo. In Giannis/Brook minutes or even the minutes with Giannis as the lone big and no other C on court with him, we had the equivalent of the #1 defense in those minutes. Players also shot 67% at the rim against Bobby, one of the lowest marks among big men with enough playing time.

I'm not really sure why we're choosing to focus exclusively on rebounding here, as though there aren't other hugely important parts of the game that Bobby is a problem in. Depending on the return, what we lose in Bobby's rebounding we could more than make up in other areas like defensive speed/quickness/versatility, playmaking, etc.

As I tried to say before, you can make a statistical case for or against any player you want. All you have to do is come in with a preconceived position and then find the facts that justify it (yes, the same could be said of me). In your example, Bobby usually plays with the second unit (even with Giannis), so I take the example as apples and oranges.

I emphasize rebounding for two reasons:

1) it is the least emphasized, yet vital, component of playing defense. So any analysis of a defensive player, especially a big, has to include rebounding.
2) There is no one to take Bobby's place should they trade him, unless they get someone in return with that elite skillset. Kevon Looney is a very good rebounder and defender, so that would help.

I would trade Bobby and give up his offensive weapons if I could get Looney and Caruso. But given Bobby's modest contract, I don't know who you're going to get that will make up for what he brings or bring something else that we need.

Certainly Norman Powell, as has been suggested, won't do that.