Safe to say, Chet "Hologram" Holgrem > Paolo Banchero

tooler · Post #321 » by **tooler** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:37 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Every time I want to come in here and compliment Paolo I read some truly dumb stuff that makes me think it's not worth engaging ITT.

For what it’s worth, I appreciate the attempt! It’s hopeless though.

Post #322 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:41 pm

tooler wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Every time I want to come in here and compliment Paolo I read some truly dumb stuff that makes me think it's not worth engaging ITT.

For what it’s worth, I appreciate the attempt! It’s hopeless though.

What I was going to say is that his three point range makes him an extremely tough guard. And I did not think he would develop that so fast. Already beating my projections for his offensive abilities based on that exponential growth.

Lalouie · Post #323 » by **Lalouie** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:46 pm

Effigy wrote:
Lalouie wrote:what's "hologram holgrem" - are you saying he looks like he's there but he really isn't????

Oh but don't you get it? They share some of the same letters! Who cares if it doesn't make sense!

i can barely read your post....
it's all hologrammy 'n sh**** !!!!!

bronxknicksfan1 · Post #324 » by **bronxknicksfan1** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:49 pm

WillyJakkz wrote:
Effigy wrote:I would say it's safe to say Chet Holmgrem plus SGA is > Paolo and Wagner. At least right now.

Wait what?

I would say that's a debate in and of itself and I don't think it's as "safe to say" as you say.

As a matter of fact even with the overlapping skillsets I believe Paolo Wagner is a better duo than SGA Chet as Paolo and Franz both can create their own offense better regardless of the defense or circumstances whereas Chet is more dependent on SGA in those same scenarios.

And don't quote post that Chet vid of him iso'ing in a one or two off game scenario cause most of his production is followups, alley oops, kick out 3's, and the rare 2-3 dribble iso drive.

No, Paolo and Franz are not better than SGA and Chet as a duo. If Paolo and Chet are around the same, Franz is a couple levels below them while SGA is a couple levels above all of them.

basketballRob · Post #325 » by **basketballRob** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:54 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
WillyJakkz wrote:
Effigy wrote:I would say it's safe to say Chet Holmgrem plus SGA is > Paolo and Wagner. At least right now.

Wait what?

I would say that's a debate in and of itself and I don't think it's as "safe to say" as you say.

As a matter of fact even with the overlapping skillsets I believe Paolo Wagner is a better duo than SGA Chet as Paolo and Franz both can create their own offense better regardless of the defense or circumstances whereas Chet is more dependent on SGA in those same scenarios.

And don't quote post that Chet vid of him iso'ing in a one or two off game scenario cause most of his production is followups, alley oops, kick out 3's, and the rare 2-3 dribble iso drive.

No, Paolo and Franz are not better than SGA and Chet as a duo. If Paolo and Chet are around the same, Franz is a couple levels below them while SGA is a couple levels above all of them.

SGA is also older. Franz and Paolo could be all NBA when they're 25.

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3ddman23 · Post #326 » by **3ddman23** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:09 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
WillyJakkz wrote:
Effigy wrote:I would say it's safe to say Chet Holmgrem plus SGA is > Paolo and Wagner. At least right now.

Wait what?

I would say that's a debate in and of itself and I don't think it's as "safe to say" as you say.

As a matter of fact even with the overlapping skillsets I believe Paolo Wagner is a better duo than SGA Chet as Paolo and Franz both can create their own offense better regardless of the defense or circumstances whereas Chet is more dependent on SGA in those same scenarios.

And don't quote post that Chet vid of him iso'ing in a one or two off game scenario cause most of his production is followups, alley oops, kick out 3's, and the rare 2-3 dribble iso drive.

No, Paolo and Franz are not better than SGA and Chet as a duo. If Paolo and Chet are around the same, Franz is a couple levels below them while SGA is a couple levels above all of them.

And yet here are with the magic having a better record to start the season. People can say what duo is better for however long they need to but what matters Is on the court and right now the magic are making a ton of people scratch there head wondering where this start is coming from.

And I'll continue to say this... they play in the east. Tha magic path to success will always be more straight forward/ easier then okc becasue of the east.

tooler · Post #327 » by **tooler** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:42 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
tooler wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Every time I want to come in here and compliment Paolo I read some truly dumb stuff that makes me think it's not worth engaging ITT.

For what it’s worth, I appreciate the attempt! It’s hopeless though.

What I was going to say is that his three point range makes him an extremely tough guard. And I did not think he would develop that so fast. Already beating my projections for his offensive abilities based on that exponential growth.

We'll see if it lasts of course. Lots of shooters look good early in the season and come down to earth. What should stick around is the shot selection and overall approach. He's taking more feet-set 3s at the appropriate time in the play.

Effigy · Post #328 » by **Effigy** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:47 pm

Lalouie wrote:
Effigy wrote:
Lalouie wrote:what's "hologram holgrem" - are you saying he looks like he's there but he really isn't????

Oh but don't you get it? They share some of the same letters! Who cares if it doesn't make sense!

i can barely read your post....
it's all hologrammy 'n sh**** !!!!!

Yeah, i picked a poor shade of green, I noticed it after I posted but was too lazy to change to a darker shade lol.

Effigy · Post #329 » by **Effigy** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:50 pm

3ddman23 wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
WillyJakkz wrote:
Wait what?

I would say that's a debate in and of itself and I don't think it's as "safe to say" as you say.

As a matter of fact even with the overlapping skillsets I believe Paolo Wagner is a better duo than SGA Chet as Paolo and Franz both can create their own offense better regardless of the defense or circumstances whereas Chet is more dependent on SGA in those same scenarios.

And don't quote post that Chet vid of him iso'ing in a one or two off game scenario cause most of his production is followups, alley oops, kick out 3's, and the rare 2-3 dribble iso drive.

No, Paolo and Franz are not better than SGA and Chet as a duo. If Paolo and Chet are around the same, Franz is a couple levels below them while SGA is a couple levels above all of them.

And yet here are with the magic having a better record to start the season. People can say what duo is better for however long they need to but what matters Is on the court and right now the magic are making a ton of people scratch there head wondering where this start is coming from.

And I'll continue to say this... they play in the east. Tha magic path to success will always be more straight forward/ easier then okc becasue of the east.

It's only the Magic fans who are disagreeing with the comment though, which is to be expected, I guess, but it's a good gauge of where people are at, when it's fans of other teams saying it versus the fans of the team in question. And I was careful to specify that this is just for 'right now' and Magic fans still didn't like it, lol.

WillyJakkz · Post #330 » by **WillyJakkz** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:02 pm

Effigy wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
No, Paolo and Franz are not better than SGA and Chet as a duo. If Paolo and Chet are around the same, Franz is a couple levels below them while SGA is a couple levels above all of them.

And yet here are with the magic having a better record to start the season. People can say what duo is better for however long they need to but what matters Is on the court and right now the magic are making a ton of people scratch there head wondering where this start is coming from.

And I'll continue to say this... they play in the east. Tha magic path to success will always be more straight forward/ easier then okc becasue of the east.

It's only the Magic fans who are disagreeing with the comment though, which is to be expected, I guess, but it's a good gauge of where people are at, when it's fans of other teams saying it versus the fans of the team in question. And I was careful to specify that this is just for 'right now' and Magic fans still didn't like it, lol.

Lol and just as I stated and anyone with any kind of objectivity vs just going by the name SGA if you look at both duos, what is SGA and Chet doing that makes them just stand out and easy to say they're better than Paolo and Franz "right now"?

And I'm not referring to a team dynamic just strictly focusing on those two separate duos or each ones individual play.

basketballRob · Post #331 » by **basketballRob** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:14 pm

Effigy wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
No, Paolo and Franz are not better than SGA and Chet as a duo. If Paolo and Chet are around the same, Franz is a couple levels below them while SGA is a couple levels above all of them.

And yet here are with the magic having a better record to start the season. People can say what duo is better for however long they need to but what matters Is on the court and right now the magic are making a ton of people scratch there head wondering where this start is coming from.

And I'll continue to say this... they play in the east. Tha magic path to success will always be more straight forward/ easier then okc becasue of the east.

It's only the Magic fans who are disagreeing with the comment though, which is to be expected, I guess, but it's a good gauge of where people are at, when it's fans of other teams saying it versus the fans of the team in question. And I was careful to specify that this is just for 'right now' and Magic fans still didn't like it, lol.

I think SGA is in his prime. The other players are like 3-4 years from reaching their primes.

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DrModesty · Post #332 » by **DrModesty** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:05 am

WillyJakkz wrote:
Effigy wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:
And yet here are with the magic having a better record to start the season. People can say what duo is better for however long they need to but what matters Is on the court and right now the magic are making a ton of people scratch there head wondering where this start is coming from.

And I'll continue to say this... they play in the east. Tha magic path to success will always be more straight forward/ easier then okc becasue of the east.

It's only the Magic fans who are disagreeing with the comment though, which is to be expected, I guess, but it's a good gauge of where people are at, when it's fans of other teams saying it versus the fans of the team in question. And I was careful to specify that this is just for 'right now' and Magic fans still didn't like it, lol.

Lol and just as I stated and anyone with any kind of objectivity vs just going by the name SGA if you look at both duos, what is SGA and Chet doing that makes them just stand out and easy to say they're better than Paolo and Franz "right now"?

And I'm not referring to a team dynamic just strictly focusing on those two separate duos or each ones individual play.

Well it isn't really fair to compare the duo's because SGA is leagues ahead of the other 3, but since you invited it.

SGA+Chet vs Paolo+Wagner

3PT Shooting:

SGA/Chet - 39.8% on 7.7 attempts
Paolo/Wagner - 34.7% on 8.4 attempts

Rim Finishing:

SGA/Chet - 71% on 8.2 attempts
Paolo/Wagner - 67% on 8.85 attempts

Close Midrange:

SGA/Chet - 51% on 7.9 attempts
Paolo/Wagner - 45% on 8.95 attempts

Long Midrange:

SGA/Chet - 52% on 8.6 attempts
Paolo/Wagner - 35% on 5 attempts

Free Throws:

SGA/Chet - 91% on 11.4 attempts
Paolo/Wagner - 73% on 9.9 attempts

Rebounds:

SGA/Chet - 14 per game
Paolo/Wagner - 12.1 per game

Assists & Turnovers:

SGA/Chet - 8.8 assists to 4.2 turnovers per game
Paolo/Wagner - 7.8 assists to 5.1 turnovers per game

Steals:

SGA/Chet - (2.4 & 0.9) 3.3 per game
Paolo/Wagner - (1.2 & 1.2) 2.4 per game

Blocks:

SGA/Chet - (0.9 & 2.2) 3.1 per game
Paolo/Wagner - (0.6 & 0.4) 1 per game

Win Shares / 48:

SGA/Chet - .290 & .217
Paolo/Wagner - .110 % .114

Vorp:

SGA/Chet - 1.7 & 1.0
Paolo/Wagner - 0.5 & 0.3

BPM:

SGA/Chet - 10.6 & 5.9
Paolo/Wagner - 1.6 & 0.3

So essentially the OKC duo are better at everything.

Up-And-Coming · Post #333 » by **Up-And-Coming** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:12 am

2 very different players. Both teams should be happy with who they drafted

thelead · Post #334 » by **thelead** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:37 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Every time I want to come in here and compliment Paolo I read some truly dumb stuff that makes me think it's not worth engaging ITT.

I come in here and cringe every time...

JustBuzzin · Post #335 » by **JustBuzzin** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:41 am

This thread is WILD.

Banchero>Chet

basketballRob · Post #336 » by **basketballRob** » Thu Dec 7, 2023 3:35 am

Are you Chet fans still feeling safe that he's better.?

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davey_wavy · Post #337 » by **davey_wavy** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:30 pm

So far this Season:

PPG
Chet-17.1
Paolo-20.7

3PT %
Chet-37.1
Paolo-40.6

REB
Chet-7.8
Paolo-6.7

AST
Chet-2.5
Paolo-4.5

STL
Chet-0.9
Paolo-1.2

BLK
Chet-2.4
Paolo-0.6

Summary- If you think its "safe" to say Chet > Paolo then maybe you should watch more basketball.

*Bonus Point- One of these 2 players above won ROTY, and the other sat out the entire year due to Injury. Durability/Availability is a stat that does not show up on the sheets but has very important value. That stat (so far) would be in favor of Paolo.

holdenwait · Post #338 » by **holdenwait** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:43 pm

don't have a dog in this fight so to speak and nothing against Chet but I'm proper impressed every time I see Banchero play ball. don't follow college basketball at all so kinda had no idea who he was before the draft night last year too lol, whereas Chet was hyped a whole lot in comparison. still would take PB over Chet.

CobraCommander · Post #339 » by **CobraCommander** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:48 pm

davey_wavy wrote:So far this Season:

PPG
Chet-17.1
Paolo-20.7

3PT %
Chet-37.1
Paolo-40.6

REB
Chet-7.8
Paolo-6.7

AST
Chet-2.5
Paolo-4.5

STL
Chet-0.9
Paolo-1.2

BLK
Chet-2.4
Paolo-0.6

Summary- If you think its "safe" to say Chet > Paolo then maybe you should watch more basketball.

*Bonus Point- One of these 2 players above won ROTY, and the other sat out the entire year due to Injury. Durability/Availability is a stat that does not show up on the sheets but has very important value. That stat (so far) would be in favor of Paolo.

Not in Orlando or OKC...but I’m sitting here thinking -

WHAT IF THEY BOTH REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD AND YOU CAN WIN WITH EITHER

Post #340 » by **Duke4life831** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:40 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
davey_wavy wrote:So far this Season:

PPG
Chet-17.1
Paolo-20.7

3PT %
Chet-37.1
Paolo-40.6

REB
Chet-7.8
Paolo-6.7

AST
Chet-2.5
Paolo-4.5

STL
Chet-0.9
Paolo-1.2

BLK
Chet-2.4
Paolo-0.6

Summary- If you think its "safe" to say Chet > Paolo then maybe you should watch more basketball.

*Bonus Point- One of these 2 players above won ROTY, and the other sat out the entire year due to Injury. Durability/Availability is a stat that does not show up on the sheets but has very important value. That stat (so far) would be in favor of Paolo.

Not in Orlando or OKC...but I’m sitting here thinking -

WHAT IF THEY BOTH REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD AND YOU CAN WIN WITH EITHER

Things can definitely change over time, but this is the obvious answer right now. Both guys look like high high level young players.