ImageImageImage

Around the NBA

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

jpatrick
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,745
And1: 1,966
Joined: May 30, 2007
 

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#441 » by jpatrick » Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:04 pm

TheProdigy wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
Klomp wrote:His name was Malik Beasley, and people wanted him banished!

Just thinking about how much better Minnesota would be with Malik Beasley over Shake Milton is painful.

I'll take Troy Brown Jr over both of them. 3 AND D baby.


I would take Beasley on this team. Can never have enough shooting/space. However, what this team really needs is a backup point guard that can shoot. By the time he might come back Monte Morris will have been out 3 months, I’m not sure I’d trust his health, but I’d love to have him or someone like him on this team.
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,806
And1: 5,297
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#442 » by minimus » Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:17 pm

jpatrick wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Just thinking about how much better Minnesota would be with Malik Beasley over Shake Milton is painful.

I'll take Troy Brown Jr over both of them. 3 AND D baby.


I would take Beasley on this team. Can never have enough shooting/space. However, what this team really needs is a backup point guard that can shoot. By the time he might come back Monte Morris will have been out 3 months, I’m not sure I’d trust his health, but I’d love to have him or someone like him on this team.


Nah... He shot 27% from 3PT in playoffs last year, and 32% from 3PT in playoffs with MIN.
TheProdigy
Starter
Posts: 2,440
And1: 1,128
Joined: Feb 21, 2001

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#443 » by TheProdigy » Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:23 pm

jpatrick wrote:
TheProdigy wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Just thinking about how much better Minnesota would be with Malik Beasley over Shake Milton is painful.

I'll take Troy Brown Jr over both of them. 3 AND D baby.


I would take Beasley on this team. Can never have enough shooting/space. However, what this team really needs is a backup point guard that can shoot. By the time he might come back Monte Morris will have been out 3 months, I’m not sure I’d trust his health, but I’d love to have him or someone like him on this team.

I'd take Beasley as well but he'd have a hard time finding minutes if TBJ is out of the rotation when everyone is healthy.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 23,604
And1: 6,471
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#444 » by KGdaBom » Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:16 pm

In general I don't give a rat's ass about the in season tournament. However, it's frustrating to have the 2nd best record in the league, go 3-1 in our IST games and not qualify. We just need to win our 2 games from the non qualifiers group and all will be forgiven about not making it.
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,413
And1: 17,372
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#445 » by Calinks » Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:30 pm

KGdaBom wrote:In general I don't give a rat's ass about the in season tournament. However, it's frustrating to have the 2nd best record in the league, go 3-1 in our IST games and not qualify. We just need to win our 2 games from the non qualifiers group and all will be forgiven about not making it.

I do care. I kind of like Candace Parkers idea about standings playing role but I do think its wrong to totally disregard what teams are doing in the IST when it comes to progressing in the IST so I don't hate the point differential thing. I'm leaning towards keeping it as is or finding a different method that allows a little more wiggle rooms but still rewards teams for performing well in IST games. I think the real problems is how strong or weak your group is. Maybe that needs to be factored in.

A team with a really strong group can far more easily go 4-0 while a team with a tough group will have a loss or two. They aren't really on a level playing field. Perhaps the NBA needs to reworked the groups. Set them up like a week before the IST starts and base them on current standings/team play ratings.

There should be no obviously easy groups, they all should have roughly the same amount of contending and tanking teams or each team should be assigned a power rank of some kind that is worth points so you get more value by beating a stronger team than a lesser team. Just some way to even it out so a team who goes 3-1 against great competition doesn't get passed by a team going 4-0 against a bunch of scrubs and a good team.

I do think teams will approach the point thing much differently from now on.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,859
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#446 » by Colbinii » Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:40 pm

Calinks wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:In general I don't give a rat's ass about the in season tournament. However, it's frustrating to have the 2nd best record in the league, go 3-1 in our IST games and not qualify. We just need to win our 2 games from the non qualifiers group and all will be forgiven about not making it.

I do care. I kind of like Candace Parkers idea about standings playing role but I do think its wrong to totally disregard what teams are doing in the IST when it comes to progressing in the IST so I don't hate the point differential thing. I'm leaning towards keeping it as is or finding a different method that allows a little more wiggle rooms but still rewards teams for performing well in IST games. I think the real problems is how strong or weak your group is. Maybe that needs to be factored in.

A team with a really strong group can far more easily go 4-0 while a team with a tough group will have a loss or two. They aren't really on a level playing field. Perhaps the NBA needs to reworked the groups. Set them up like a week before the IST starts and base them on current standings/team play ratings.

There should be no obviously easy groups, they all should have roughly the same amount of contending and tanking teams or each team should be assigned a power rank of some kind that is worth points so you get more value by beating a stronger team than a lesser team. Just some way to even it out so a team who goes 3-1 against great competition doesn't get passed by a team going 4-0 against a bunch of scrubs and a good team.

I do think teams will approach the point thing much differently from now on.


The Point Differential is a joke. Bam Adebayo said it takes away the integrity of the game--and it does! Teams don't run up the score, that isn't natural to the NBA and making it matter makes this less serious.

What they should be doing is using W-L record over the season as the tie-breaker.

But, the divisions of the In-Season Tournament were meant to be equal. They are as close to equal as they could have made them. If you don't believe me, look at the W-L records of last year and each group.
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 69,750
And1: 23,079
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#447 » by Klomp » Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:41 pm

Calinks wrote: I think the real problems is how strong or weak your group is. Maybe that needs to be factored in.

A team with a really strong group can far more easily go 4-0 while a team with a tough group will have a loss or two. They aren't really on a level playing field. Perhaps the NBA needs to reworked the groups. Set them up like a week before the IST starts and base them on current standings/team play ratings.

There should be no obviously easy groups, they all should have roughly the same amount of contending and tanking teams or each team should be assigned a power rank of some kind that is worth points so you get more value by beating a stronger team than a lesser team. Just some way to even it out so a team who goes 3-1 against great competition doesn't get passed by a team going 4-0 against a bunch of scrubs and a good team.

I do think teams will approach the point thing much differently from now on.

If I remember right, they are fluid year to year.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,413
And1: 17,372
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#448 » by Calinks » Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:06 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Calinks wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:In general I don't give a rat's ass about the in season tournament. However, it's frustrating to have the 2nd best record in the league, go 3-1 in our IST games and not qualify. We just need to win our 2 games from the non qualifiers group and all will be forgiven about not making it.

I do care. I kind of like Candace Parkers idea about standings playing role but I do think its wrong to totally disregard what teams are doing in the IST when it comes to progressing in the IST so I don't hate the point differential thing. I'm leaning towards keeping it as is or finding a different method that allows a little more wiggle rooms but still rewards teams for performing well in IST games. I think the real problems is how strong or weak your group is. Maybe that needs to be factored in.

A team with a really strong group can far more easily go 4-0 while a team with a tough group will have a loss or two. They aren't really on a level playing field. Perhaps the NBA needs to reworked the groups. Set them up like a week before the IST starts and base them on current standings/team play ratings.

There should be no obviously easy groups, they all should have roughly the same amount of contending and tanking teams or each team should be assigned a power rank of some kind that is worth points so you get more value by beating a stronger team than a lesser team. Just some way to even it out so a team who goes 3-1 against great competition doesn't get passed by a team going 4-0 against a bunch of scrubs and a good team.

I do think teams will approach the point thing much differently from now on.


The Point Differential is a joke. Bam Adebayo said it takes away the integrity of the game--and it does! Teams don't run up the score, that isn't natural to the NBA and making it matter makes this less serious.

What they should be doing is using W-L record over the season as the tie-breaker.

But, the divisions of the In-Season Tournament were meant to be equal. They are as close to equal as they could have made them. If you don't believe me, look at the W-L records of last year and each group.
I see the reasoning and I think its sound but I don't know if its the best way to go.

Last year isn't this year, as know teams can make a big jump or fall in one season. As for the point differential thing, I get that it isn't how the NBA is played but I don't think it necessarily makes it wrong or bad, I kind of like the idea of doing something different. I also really think there is something to be said for having tournament play be largely determined of tournament positioning. Taking regular season performance and making it a determining factor is absolutely fairer as a whole but I think it is more fun to make the tournament its own thing, thus a team that is just hot in the tournament has a chance to win the tournament even if it struggles in the regular season. That said, I do have a bitter taste that a team like ours who has been playing great is totally out of it because they had one bad tournament loss.

In the best of both worlds, a team that that is playing well overall should get a bit more leeway for the tournament but a team performing well in the tournament should also get rewarded. Perhaps there just needs to be another wild card scenario. Something for overall success and something for tournament success.

I'd give it more consideration.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,610
And1: 19,712
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#449 » by shrink » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:11 pm

I hate point differential too, and it should be about winning. Without giving it much thought, I’d prefer these rules:

1. At mid-season, top four in each conference are in tournament. IST teams have their games moved up in the schedule, and are played in Vegas. Each conference determines a winner, and the final game is between the conference winners. The team that wins gets an automatic home court berth in the Playoffs (4th seed), and the Runner Up wins the 8th seed.

2. The teams that win the second half of the season in each conference win automatic berths as well (8th seeds). This way both halves are competitive and their importance is equalized fairly. This gives a poor starting team (like MEM, say), a reason not to tank.

3. At the end of the season, NBA playoff brackets are determined. Teams that won spots for being half-season winners can choose better positions if their overall record produces a better spot. The other 12-16 teams are filled into the playoff brackets based on their overall record. In most cases, a team that wins a half-season was going to the playoffs anyway, so it’s unlikely to bump a mediocre overall team. However, teams will compete hard for the midseason tournament for security, like if a star happened to miss months with an injury.

No point differential. No incentivizing players with cash. “Win to get in” is the best motivation to provide competitive games.
Slim Tubby
Veteran
Posts: 2,953
And1: 2,592
Joined: Jun 03, 2017
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#450 » by Slim Tubby » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:11 pm

Four (4) of the five (5) teams in the WC that have the best overall performance at this point in the season didn't make the Playoff. The Lakers cruised in thanks to a schedule against teams (PHO, UTA, POR & MEM) with a combined 25-42 record this season. Take out PHO and it's 14-36.

The NBA knew exactly what they were doing when putting together the groups, especially knowing Morant would be out. This is nothing more than a glorified money grab for the NBA and ESPN.

The point differential is a joke as a tie-breaker. Not only does it promote poor sportsmanship and a complete lack of respect for your opponent, what happens if Tatum tears his ACL with Mazzula playing all of their starters up 25 with two (2) minutes to play? Take the top four (4) teams in each Conference with the best winning % on 12/1 and use Net Differential as the tie-breaker if we really want the best teams qualifying.

Sour grapes? Maybe a little because no team is more deserving than the Wolves when you factor in W-L records and Net Ratings as the true definers of who the best teams are. I'll gladly take the two (2) extra games against poor teams over the IPT considering our main goal is playoff seeding and winning a Title that actually means something.
Glen Taylor: "Is this moron #1 (Layden)? Put moron #2 (Thibs) on the phone."
TimberKat
Head Coach
Posts: 6,174
And1: 3,118
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#451 » by TimberKat » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:23 pm

I think we only had home court in first round once in the franchise's history. Getting MEM and SAS will help us get one of the top 4 seeds and may end up helping us win a playoff series or two.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 23,604
And1: 6,471
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#452 » by KGdaBom » Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:02 pm

TimberKat wrote:I think we only had home court in first round once in the franchise's history. Getting MEM and SAS will help us get one of the top 4 seeds and may end up helping us win a playoff series or two.

Or 3 or 4. :rockon: :rock:
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 23,604
And1: 6,471
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#453 » by KGdaBom » Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:18 am

Memphis is crushing Utah by 21 early in the 3rd. Even with ANT out we should have no problem with the Jazz.
Rauxcee
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,688
And1: 3,245
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
 

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#454 » by Rauxcee » Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:49 am

KGdaBom wrote:Memphis is crushing Utah by 21 early in the 3rd. Even with ANT out we should have no problem with the Jazz.


My Jazz are so terrible this season. :noway:
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 23,604
And1: 6,471
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#455 » by KGdaBom » Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:09 am

Rauxcee wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Memphis is crushing Utah by 21 early in the 3rd. Even with ANT out we should have no problem with the Jazz.


My Jazz are so terrible this season. :noway:

Sorry. I'd like to see you do well.
User avatar
m2002brian
Analyst
Posts: 3,349
And1: 1,390
Joined: May 29, 2009
     

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#456 » by m2002brian » Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:11 am

Raps and Clips helping out tonight.
Thanks guys.
BLUEGREENRED
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,806
And1: 5,297
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#457 » by minimus » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:26 am

Read on Twitter


I dont remember who, but someone on this board was very high on Daniels.



I am high on Suggs
FrenchMinnyFan
Starter
Posts: 2,116
And1: 1,301
Joined: Feb 10, 2023
     

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#458 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:28 am

I'm totally happy about us not making the tournament. Playing more games with the risk of injury is not a good things. We will have more time to recover and work. Imagine a team lie Fakers getting LBJ or AD injured in this, their season is over. Not worth the risk for me .
thinktank
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,304
And1: 2,641
Joined: Jul 02, 2010
Location: Mpls

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#459 » by thinktank » Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:20 pm

minimus wrote:
Read on Twitter


I dont remember who, but someone on this board was very high on Daniels.



I am high on Suggs


Same here. People saying he can’t shoot. He’s shooting this season. Very good two way player with size for his position.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 23,604
And1: 6,471
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Around the NBA 

Post#460 » by KGdaBom » Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:32 pm

FrenchMinnyFan wrote:I'm totally happy about us not making the tournament. Playing more games with the risk of injury is not a good things. We will have more time to recover and work. Imagine a team lie Fakers getting LBJ or AD injured in this, their season is over. Not worth the risk for me .

It's only 1 extra game for the 2 teams who make the final.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves