PG: Good Win

[Tortiglioni]

Only on Raptors Real GM, where we had a good win, where multiple people contributed at various points of the game (Scottie obviously in the crucial4th), do people then react with we must trade people right **** now.

You're right, the Raptors' real gm would react very differently. One good win and Bobby is trading away any future pick he can to get that 11th seed.

[Scase]

You think OG is capable of putting up 8-10 three's a night? That is elite volume generally only arrived at by guys who can handle a handful of pull up 3's a game, and OG is not an elite shooter.

OG is 73rd in the NBA in FGA/game. That is more than adequate for a guy of his offensive stature.

He's got career averages of 38%, and 38.5% since 2020-21 where he has averaged 6 3PA a game, I dont see how an additional 2 shots is going to all of a sudden tank his efficiency. He virtually never takes a bad 3.

2022-23 he had 14 games where he took 8+ and shot 37.2%
2021-22 he had 15 games where he took 8+ and shot 34.8%
2020-21 he had 11 games where he took 8+ and shot 42.2%

I'm pretty confident that he could manage 8 a game at 36-37%.

I dont think you understand how hard it is to get off 8+ 3's per game. ESPECIALLY for a guy who is horrible dribbling (so you can eliminate pull-up 3's), is not agile enough to come around screens off-ball, and is pretty much stuck being a straight catch and shoot guy. There are virtually no guys like OG's skillset taking more 3's than OG is right now.

Eric Gordon and Duncan Robinson are both taking 7/g, are you seriously trying to say, that OG who primarily takes set 3pt shots, couldnt manage to bump that up by a couple, if we just ran some more plays for that?

Come on dude, you're just being contrarian at this point.

[lobosloboslobos]

OG should not be moving up the pecking order

We saw what happens when he gets more usage. He misses shots, turns it over, and his defense slips.

The guy just simply is a 4th/5th option. That is it.

Pecking order doesn't have to mean more responsibilities, rather just more chances to score. I would happily take 2-4 FGA away from Dennis/Siakam and give them to OG for 3PA. I definitely don't want him trying to dribble into the paint and falling like bambi on ice any more than we already get lol.

You think OG is capable of putting up 8-10 three's a night? That is elite volume generally only arrived at by guys who can handle a handful of pull up 3's a game, and OG is not an elite shooter.

OG is 73rd in the NBA in FGA/game. That is more than adequate for a guy of his offensive stature.

He's already putting up 6.3 3s a night and hitting them at 42%. what is your problem with trying to position him to take another couple 3s a game?

[Mikistan]

Pecking order doesn't have to mean more responsibilities, rather just more chances to score. I would happily take 2-4 FGA away from Dennis/Siakam and give them to OG for 3PA. I definitely don't want him trying to dribble into the paint and falling like bambi on ice any more than we already get lol.

You think OG is capable of putting up 8-10 three's a night? That is elite volume generally only arrived at by guys who can handle a handful of pull up 3's a game, and OG is not an elite shooter.

OG is 73rd in the NBA in FGA/game. That is more than adequate for a guy of his offensive stature.

He's already putting up 6.3 3s a night and hitting them at 42%. what is your problem with trying to position him to take another couple 3s a game?

Exactly at that percentage you want him shooting 9 per game and we still come out ahead

[ItsDanger]

I agree with the overall premise that OG should be getting more shots (especially plays for 3s) instead of some other players on this team.

[Madvillainy2004]

I agree with the overall premise that OG should be getting more shots (especially plays for 3s) instead of some other players on this team.

The problem is he can't create for himself. If he could dribble into pull-ups or even run some pick and roll he'd get more. It's hard to create offense for a guy that relies on stand still spot up shots. It's not like we can run stagger screens or get him pull ups off hand offs either.

[DreamTeam09]

Only on Raptors Real GM, where we had a good win, where multiple people contributed at various points of the game (Scottie obviously in the crucial4th), do people then react with we must trade people right **** now.

You're right, the Raptors' real gm would react very differently. One good win and Bobby is trading away any future pick he can to get that 11th seed.

lol how does this joke/narrative stay alive off of 1 future 1st going out for a C shooting like 70% from the field and going from pick 20 to 32 in another year.

[Chandan]

He's got career averages of 38%, and 38.5% since 2020-21 where he has averaged 6 3PA a game, I dont see how an additional 2 shots is going to all of a sudden tank his efficiency. He virtually never takes a bad 3.

2022-23 he had 14 games where he took 8+ and shot 37.2%
2021-22 he had 15 games where he took 8+ and shot 34.8%
2020-21 he had 11 games where he took 8+ and shot 42.2%

I'm pretty confident that he could manage 8 a game at 36-37%.

I dont think you understand how hard it is to get off 8+ 3's per game. ESPECIALLY for a guy who is horrible dribbling (so you can eliminate pull-up 3's), is not agile enough to come around screens off-ball, and is pretty much stuck being a straight catch and shoot guy. There are virtually no guys like OG's skillset taking more 3's than OG is right now.

Eric Gordon and Duncan Robinson are both taking 7/g, are you seriously trying to say, that OG who primarily takes set 3pt shots, couldnt manage to bump that up by a couple, if we just ran some more plays for that?

Come on dude, you're just being contrarian at this point.

just at this point?

[Mikistan]

Only on Raptors Real GM, where we had a good win, where multiple people contributed at various points of the game (Scottie obviously in the crucial4th), do people then react with we must trade people right **** now.

You're right, the Raptors' real gm would react very differently. One good win and Bobby is trading away any future pick he can to get that 11th seed.

lol how does this joke/narrative stay alive off of 1 future 1st going out for a C shooting like 70% from the field and going from pick 20 to 32 in another year.

you are answering your own question

[YogurtProducer]

You think OG is capable of putting up 8-10 three's a night? That is elite volume generally only arrived at by guys who can handle a handful of pull up 3's a game, and OG is not an elite shooter.

OG is 73rd in the NBA in FGA/game. That is more than adequate for a guy of his offensive stature.

He's already putting up 6.3 3s a night and hitting them at 42%. what is your problem with trying to position him to take another couple 3s a game?

Exactly at that percentage you want him shooting 9 per game and we still come out ahead

He is not going to shoot 42% on 9 threes a game though, that is completely impossible for a shooter like OG.

OG shoots 42.3% on catch and shoot 3's.
OG shoots 27.3% on pull up 3's.

OG is already 15th in the entire league in catch and shoot 3's attempted at 4.9 per game. Adding 2 of those a game to him (because we definitely don't want him taking more pull up 3's) would be about 7 catch and shoot 3's per game. That would be the 2nd most in the entire league and OG simply just is not a good enough shooter to justify taking 7 catch and shoots 3's per game, especially since he does not have a quick enough release, nor ability to move around off ball, to get of 7 quality 3's per game.

My guess is those additional 2-3 three's he would attempt to put up would be like a 25% shot. AKA - not good offense.

[Madvillainy2004]

OG should not be moving up the pecking order

We saw what happens when he gets more usage. He misses shots, turns it over, and his defense slips.

The guy just simply is a 4th/5th option. That is it.

Pecking order doesn't have to mean more responsibilities, rather just more chances to score. I would happily take 2-4 FGA away from Dennis/Siakam and give them to OG for 3PA. I definitely don't want him trying to dribble into the paint and falling like bambi on ice any more than we already get lol.

You think OG is capable of putting up 8-10 three's a night? That is elite volume generally only arrived at by guys who can handle a handful of pull up 3's a game, and OG is not an elite shooter.

OG is 73rd in the NBA in FGA/game. That is more than adequate for a guy of his offensive stature.

If OG thinks he'd get more usage touches on other teams he's delusional. No serious franchise wants him to do anything on offense other than spot up 3s, cuts, and the occasional bully ball post up. He can't dribble or pass or shoot off the bounce. That's just the hard truth better players than OG have taken lesser roles honestly. Suffice to say OG is fantastic as a defender and his shooting has been awesome but he has very clear limitations and no real team wants more of a role for him.

[YogurtProducer]

He's got career averages of 38%, and 38.5% since 2020-21 where he has averaged 6 3PA a game, I dont see how an additional 2 shots is going to all of a sudden tank his efficiency. He virtually never takes a bad 3.

2022-23 he had 14 games where he took 8+ and shot 37.2%
2021-22 he had 15 games where he took 8+ and shot 34.8%
2020-21 he had 11 games where he took 8+ and shot 42.2%

I'm pretty confident that he could manage 8 a game at 36-37%.

I dont think you understand how hard it is to get off 8+ 3's per game. ESPECIALLY for a guy who is horrible dribbling (so you can eliminate pull-up 3's), is not agile enough to come around screens off-ball, and is pretty much stuck being a straight catch and shoot guy. There are virtually no guys like OG's skillset taking more 3's than OG is right now.

Eric Gordon and Duncan Robinson are both taking 7/g, are you seriously trying to say, that OG who primarily takes set 3pt shots, couldnt manage to bump that up by a couple, if we just ran some more plays for that?

Come on dude, you're just being contrarian at this point.

Come on dude, Eric Gordon and Duncan Robinson are different level of shooters compared to OG. Gordon is reguarly pulling up 5 feet behind the 3 point line, and Robinson has great off-ball ability.

OG is a catch and shoot guy.

There is nothing contrarian by just being factual bout OG's shooting ability. He can shoot the hell out of an open, catch and shoot 3. But that is about it.

He is not coming off screens and setting his feel and bombing away on people like Robinson. He is not bombing from 25-30 feet to space teams out like Gordon. He is not pulling up into 3's like Tatum or Lowry.

[Mikistan]

He's already putting up 6.3 3s a night and hitting them at 42%. what is your problem with trying to position him to take another couple 3s a game?

Exactly at that percentage you want him shooting 9 per game and we still come out ahead

He is not going to shoot 42% on 9 threes a game though, that is completely impossible for a shooter like OG.

OG shoots 42.3% on catch and shoot 3's.
OG shoots 27.3% on pull up 3's.

OG is already 15th in the entire league in catch and shoot 3's attempted at 4.9 per game. Adding 2 of those a game to him (because we definitely don't want him taking more pull up 3's) would be about 7 catch and shoot 3's per game. That would be the 2nd most in the entire league and OG simply just is not a good enough shooter to justify taking 7 catch and shoots 3's per game, especially since he does not have a quick enough release, nor ability to move around off ball, to get of 7 quality 3's per game.

My guess is those additional 2-3 three's he would attempt to put up would be like a 25% shot. AKA - not good offense.

thats why i said "and still come out ahead"

your guess isn't relevant - nevermine that you guess 25% when hes shooting higher than that on pull ups? not consistent

the bolded isnt supported - we have seen sets that Mr. Darko has implemented that hunts 3pt shots off multiple screen actions earlier this season, all it takes is making a point of running those sets for a couple more times per game for OG rather than relying on flow/broken players getting him kick-outs

[MoneyBall]

I agree with the overall premise that OG should be getting more shots (especially plays for 3s) instead of some other players on this team.

The problem is he can't create for himself. If he could dribble into pull-ups or even run some pick and roll he'd get more. It's hard to create offense for a guy that relies on stand still spot up shots. It's not we can run stagger screens or get him pull ups off hand offs either.

That's it. If we could get OG open threes at will we'd ask him to take at least 20 threes a game. It's getting him those good looks that's challenging.

[YogurtProducer]

Exactly at that percentage you want him shooting 9 per game and we still come out ahead

He is not going to shoot 42% on 9 threes a game though, that is completely impossible for a shooter like OG.

OG shoots 42.3% on catch and shoot 3's.
OG shoots 27.3% on pull up 3's.

OG is already 15th in the entire league in catch and shoot 3's attempted at 4.9 per game. Adding 2 of those a game to him (because we definitely don't want him taking more pull up 3's) would be about 7 catch and shoot 3's per game. That would be the 2nd most in the entire league and OG simply just is not a good enough shooter to justify taking 7 catch and shoots 3's per game, especially since he does not have a quick enough release, nor ability to move around off ball, to get of 7 quality 3's per game.

My guess is those additional 2-3 three's he would attempt to put up would be like a 25% shot. AKA - not good offense.

thats why i said "and still come out ahead"

your guess isn't relevant - nevermine that you guess 25% when hes shooting higher than that on pull ups? not consistent

the bolded isnt supported - we have seen sets that Mr. Darko has implemented that hunts 3pt shots off multiple screen actions earlier this season, all it takes is making a point of running those sets for a couple more times per game for OG rather than relying on flow/broken players getting him kick-outs

I am entirely consistent. OG shoots 27.3% on pull ups but that does not mean those are not open, guys going under screens etc. It just is showing that he kind of really sucks at anything that is not a 3 pointer that is wide open.

There is no evidence he is going to be able to get 2-3 more good quality 3 point attempts to take per game regardless of what we do. He is not very good at off-ball movement to get open, he is not gonna be able to create 3's for himself, etc. He is the product of other guys collapsing the defense and kicking it out.

[Mikistan]

He is not going to shoot 42% on 9 threes a game though, that is completely impossible for a shooter like OG.

OG shoots 42.3% on catch and shoot 3's.
OG shoots 27.3% on pull up 3's.

OG is already 15th in the entire league in catch and shoot 3's attempted at 4.9 per game. Adding 2 of those a game to him (because we definitely don't want him taking more pull up 3's) would be about 7 catch and shoot 3's per game. That would be the 2nd most in the entire league and OG simply just is not a good enough shooter to justify taking 7 catch and shoots 3's per game, especially since he does not have a quick enough release, nor ability to move around off ball, to get of 7 quality 3's per game.

My guess is those additional 2-3 three's he would attempt to put up would be like a 25% shot. AKA - not good offense.

thats why i said "and still come out ahead"

your guess isn't relevant - nevermine that you guess 25% when hes shooting higher than that on pull ups? not consistent

the bolded isnt supported - we have seen sets that Mr. Darko has implemented that hunts 3pt shots off multiple screen actions earlier this season, all it takes is making a point of running those sets for a couple more times per game for OG rather than relying on flow/broken players getting him kick-outs

I am entirely consistent. OG shoots 27.3% on pull ups but that does not mean those are not open, guys going under screens etc. It just is showing that he kind of really sucks at anything that is not a 3 pointer that is wide open.

There is no evidence he is going to be able to get 2-3 more good quality 3 point attempts to take per game regardless of what we do. He is not very good at off-ball movement to get open, he is not gonna be able to create 3's for himself, etc. He is the product of other guys collapsing the defense and kicking it out.

Yes i agree, you are consistent in your bias

[Madvillainy2004]

I dont think you understand how hard it is to get off 8+ 3's per game. ESPECIALLY for a guy who is horrible dribbling (so you can eliminate pull-up 3's), is not agile enough to come around screens off-ball, and is pretty much stuck being a straight catch and shoot guy. There are virtually no guys like OG's skillset taking more 3's than OG is right now.

Eric Gordon and Duncan Robinson are both taking 7/g, are you seriously trying to say, that OG who primarily takes set 3pt shots, couldnt manage to bump that up by a couple, if we just ran some more plays for that?

Come on dude, you're just being contrarian at this point.

Come on dude, Eric Gordon and Duncan Robinson are different level of shooters compared to OG. Gordon is reguarly pulling up 5 feet behind the 3 point line, and Robinson has great off-ball ability.

OG is a catch and shoot guy.

There is nothing contrarian by just being factual bout OG's shooting ability. He can shoot the hell out of an open, catch and shoot 3. But that is about it.

He is not coming off screens and setting his feel and bombing away on people like Robinson. He is not bombing from 25-30 feet to space teams out like Gordon. He is not pulling up into 3's like Tatum or Lowry.

Comparing OG to shooters like Gordon and DRob is hilarious man. Are we talking about the same OG? Or did we replace him with Rip Hamilton? Because OG does not have the balance or dexterity to fly off dribble hand offs or work off stagger screens sets. His shooting is more akin to a stretch big than those guys.

[PushDaRock]

He dislikes Scottie so much that he decides to post Scottie wearing the postgame chain on his IG.

Nobody says he dislikes him. I'm sure all these guys are nice guys and probably get along to some degree. It's the play style. It has nothing to do with Scottie. It was the same with Dennis when he played with Tatum and Brown. His game is very ball dominant and it freezes others out unless they're the one in the action with him.

Yeah I don't think anyone on most teams dislikes their teammates, hell with as much vitriol I had towards the FVV/Scottie dynamic last year, I wouldn't even say there's an issue there.

It's just a really bad fit for players and their play style, Scottie is a team/pass first player, and Dennis/FVV are more shoot first, granted I gotta give kudos to FVV (based on stats alone, I haven't watched much rockets this year) for seemingly being much better getting the team involved this year. But I guess when your starting line up has a 44%, 37%, 36%, 36%, and 31% 3pt shooters, it's a bit easier to manage haha.

Dennis in a vacuum wasn't a bad pick up, same as Jak, they just don't really fit the playstyle of what is supposed to be the franchise/focal point of the team.

The complaint seems to be people don't want him to play next to an actual point guard aside from maybe a Lonzo Ball type.

[YogurtProducer]

thats why i said "and still come out ahead"

your guess isn't relevant - nevermine that you guess 25% when hes shooting higher than that on pull ups? not consistent

the bolded isnt supported - we have seen sets that Mr. Darko has implemented that hunts 3pt shots off multiple screen actions earlier this season, all it takes is making a point of running those sets for a couple more times per game for OG rather than relying on flow/broken players getting him kick-outs

I am entirely consistent. OG shoots 27.3% on pull ups but that does not mean those are not open, guys going under screens etc. It just is showing that he kind of really sucks at anything that is not a 3 pointer that is wide open.

There is no evidence he is going to be able to get 2-3 more good quality 3 point attempts to take per game regardless of what we do. He is not very good at off-ball movement to get open, he is not gonna be able to create 3's for himself, etc. He is the product of other guys collapsing the defense and kicking it out.

Yes i agree, you are consistent in your bias

Bias?

Man I love OG. How is it bias by suggesting that maybe OG is not an elite shooter who can take on elite volume, and then following that up with some stats and analysis to back it up?

Do better man.

[PushDaRock]

I agree with the overall premise that OG should be getting more shots (especially plays for 3s) instead of some other players on this team.

The problem is he can't create for himself. If he could dribble into pull-ups or even run some pick and roll he'd get more. It's hard to create offense for a guy that relies on stand still spot up shots. It's not like we can run stagger screens or get him pull ups off hand offs either.

There was a stretch last season when guys were hurt and he was the primary option out there a few games where they ran staggered screens for him and he was doing ok off them. He's pretty good when he can catch the ball on the move, but really struggles when starting at a stand still. We could look into more actions to get him in motion where he is most effective. He flashes some passing ability so he reads the game ok, but for the most part he's still not too comfortable creating for himself out there outside of some flashes here and there.