Game 19: Clippers at Warriors

[CDM_Stats]

They are not getting a player capable of anywhere near Wiggs’ best level for his salary if they trade him. He has no permanent health issue, at this stage he is worth betting on and patience imo, he wasn’t just a one year wonder n the title win, he was fine last season before his various vicissitudes. I gather he has trouble keeping weight on, so he may have to play the whole season at a lower weight than is ideal given that the rib fractures LeBron have him reputedly limited his off season preparation.

They definitely wouldn't.. Wiggins is still a great defender and his shot has come around to his average recently - actually above his average. He had an Oubre-like start to the season and is in the role that generates the worst defensive metrics.. something that would usually be corrected by Dray, who's been out for a good deal of it, and Looney, who just hasnt covered the same ground in years' past. Also Wiggins was the scrambler the past 2 years, which spiked his steal and block numbers.. we've been using guys like CP3 and Klay in that role, to predictable results

This is the spring of '22 all over again... Dray was out and people were convinced Wiggins was trash. Nothing was learned

[michaelm]

They are not getting a player capable of anywhere near Wiggs’ best level for his salary if they trade him. He has no permanent health issue, at this stage he is worth betting on and patience imo, he wasn’t just a one year wonder n the title win, he was fine last season before his various vicissitudes. I gather he has trouble keeping weight on, so he may have to play the whole season at a lower weight than is ideal given that the rib fractures LeBron have him reputedly limited his off season preparation.

They definitely wouldn't.. Wiggins is still a great defender and his shot has come around to his average recently - actually above his average. He had an Oubre-like start to the season and is in the role that generates the worst defensive metrics.. something that would usually be corrected by Dray, who's been out for a good deal of it, and Looney, who just hasnt covered the same ground in years' past. Also Wiggins was the scrambler the past 2 years, which spiked his steal and block numbers.. we've been using guys like CP3 and Klay in that role, to predictable results

This is the spring of '22 all over again... Dray was out and people were convinced Wiggins was trash. Nothing was learned

Wiggs does need to be next to Draymond to be at his best defensively. I don’t see this as a problem given they are not winning anything without Green in any case.

[cpower]

the advanced stats available are free for a reason. POA players are penalized in most metrics, but also, metrics are reflective of results, not cause. They are loosely tied to cause, but are useless without context

Wiggins has not even been the worst player in the starting lineup... he's been a part of the best lineup we've put on the court. He started off the season ice cold shooting, and thats literally been it. Other than missing a game by slamming his hand into a car door which is Jordan Poole level awareness in everyday life

again, if a forward cannot make shots nor FTs, turns the ball over more than his assists and could not rebound, how can he be good? His man defense does not justify the overall negative impact on the court and his man defense has not been good neither..

Wiggins is at 18-5-2 on 49/40/70 the past 2 weeks.. he's playing exclusive at POA defender, where he's actually been excellent, but reduces his ability to generate steals and blocks like in the past. He literally absorbs most of the negative defensive impact on the team, as do most specific POA defenders. And AGAIN he's been part of the best lineup on the team

Your crusade is weird and wrong man. Basing entire opinions off stuff you can read off BBRef is not how to accurately interpret the game, that's trade board stuff

does not explain why his assists number down from 3 to 1 and TOs up a lot. If the guy is just doing jab step then long 2s, or trying to drive into crowd and getting stripped then he is doing just that. Part of the issue is Kerr asked him to generate offense but he is not capable and could barely dribble. If he is just trying to attack on fast break or shoot wide open threes then we are fine but he is just doing too much out there and that has negatively impacted the team in a big way

[wco81]

Klay standing around watching AGAIN

Oh no, Klay actually had a decent game!

Better than his heir apparent and even better than the one who can do no wrong.

This sucks, Warriors won so Klay can't be scapegoated!

Or can't he?

lol he stood around and watched on a play where PG13 got a wide open corner 3 you giant flapping baby

Oh no! Klay made a bad play or two here and there in a game they won!

Because no other player ever makes a bad play!

[CDM_Stats]

They are not getting a player capable of anywhere near Wiggs’ best level for his salary if they trade him. He has no permanent health issue, at this stage he is worth betting on and patience imo, he wasn’t just a one year wonder n the title win, he was fine last season before his various vicissitudes. I gather he has trouble keeping weight on, so he may have to play the whole season at a lower weight than is ideal given that the rib fractures LeBron have him reputedly limited his off season preparation.

They definitely wouldn't.. Wiggins is still a great defender and his shot has come around to his average recently - actually above his average. He had an Oubre-like start to the season and is in the role that generates the worst defensive metrics.. something that would usually be corrected by Dray, who's been out for a good deal of it, and Looney, who just hasnt covered the same ground in years' past. Also Wiggins was the scrambler the past 2 years, which spiked his steal and block numbers.. we've been using guys like CP3 and Klay in that role, to predictable results

This is the spring of '22 all over again... Dray was out and people were convinced Wiggins was trash. Nothing was learned

Wiggs does need to be next to Draymond to be at his best defensively. I don’t see this as a problem given they are not winning anything without Green in any case.

100%, but I think the additional wrinkle this year is that we need one of the 2 guards to hold their own defensively. In the good Poole year, he was pretty bad, but we didnt hide him. We just ate that bad defense because the offense was good enough to sustain it. Even last year with Klay, same deal. This year, Klay's offense has sputtered (along with Wiggins) and we pivoted often to a Curry-CP3-Klay lineup that was doomed to fail

The reason why Curry-Moody-Wiggins-Dray-Looney has been our best lineup is because its the same defensive nightmare as 22.. Moody can hold his own against SGs, putting Wiggins in his best defensive spot, putting less stress on Draymond and Looney to cover for mistakes. The question is can it hold its own offensively? So far in limited time, yes, but Kerr isn't forcing the issue because he wants to get Klay over the offensive hump to make the traditional starting lineup work. I understand that aspect, but man when he said Moody was going to be out of the rotation.. holy ****

[CDM_Stats]

Oh no, Klay actually had a decent game!

Better than his heir apparent and even better than the one who can do no wrong.

This sucks, Warriors won so Klay can't be scapegoated!

Or can't he?

lol he stood around and watched on a play where PG13 got a wide open corner 3 you giant flapping baby

Oh no! Klay made a bad play or two here and there in a game they won!

Because no other player ever makes a bad play!

I call out bad plays by everyone. Klay has been habitually quitting on plays, so yeah, gonna call it out. There's literally posts about trading Klay in the thread... go be a bitch there

[CDM_Stats]

does not explain why his assists number down from 3 to 1 and TOs up a lot. If the guy is just doing jab step then long 2s, or trying to drive into crowd and getting stripped then he is doing just that. Part of the issue is Kerr asked him to generate offense but he is not capable and could barely dribble. If he is just trying to attack on fast break or shoot wide open threes then we are fine but he is just doing too much out there and that has negatively impacted the team in a big way

The entire offense suffers without Draymond (Wiggins never really creates, he just cycles).. and the TOs are part of that as well, as everyone was pressing.

I agree he cant generate offense, thats why he failed in Minnesota. He's a complementary offensive player... he's a good midrange guy and if the SC is running down, he can create enough separation for his jumper if need be. But you dont want to call that play more than once or twice a game as a change of pace

But what I'm telling you is, you are focusing on results, not cause. With Dray back he should go back to the role we usually see him in. His efficiency numbers are already rising. The defense will still be problematic because we can't hide 2 bad defensive guards, but as pointed out re: Moody, if one of the guards can hold his own, the team is a huge net positive.

He does need a lot of boxes checked to be the impact player he was the past season and a half. But so does Klay, Draymond, Looney.. everyone not named Curry. That's why the system is so important, and when people suggest big stiffs like Javale or Vucevic to be on the squad, its rightly shot down. Because they aren't thinking about the big picture

[wco81]

lol he stood around and watched on a play where PG13 got a wide open corner 3 you giant flapping baby

Oh no! Klay made a bad play or two here and there in a game they won!

Because no other player ever makes a bad play!

I call out bad plays by everyone. Klay has been habitually quitting on plays, so yeah, gonna call it out. There's literally posts about trading Klay in the thread... go be a bitch there

There's only one person bitching, after a win no less.

It aint me.

[cpower]

does not explain why his assists number down from 3 to 1 and TOs up a lot. If the guy is just doing jab step then long 2s, or trying to drive into crowd and getting stripped then he is doing just that. Part of the issue is Kerr asked him to generate offense but he is not capable and could barely dribble. If he is just trying to attack on fast break or shoot wide open threes then we are fine but he is just doing too much out there and that has negatively impacted the team in a big way

The entire offense suffers without Draymond (Wiggins never really creates, he just cycles).. and the TOs are part of that as well, as everyone was pressing.

I agree he cant generate offense, thats why he failed in Minnesota. He's a complementary offensive player... he's a good midrange guy and if the SC is running down, he can create enough separation for his jumper if need be. But you dont want to call that play more than once or twice a game as a change of pace

But what I'm telling you is, you are focusing on results, not cause. With Dray back he should go back to the role we usually see him in. His efficiency numbers are already rising. The defense will still be problematic because we can't hide 2 bad defensive guards, but as pointed out re: Moody, if one of the guards can hold his own, the team is a huge net positive.

He does need a lot of boxes checked to be the impact player he was the past season and a half. But so does Klay, Draymond, Looney.. everyone not named Curry. That's why the system is so important, and when people suggest big stiffs like Javale or Vucevic to be on the squad, its rightly shot down. Because they aren't thinking about the big picture

i am not down playing the importance of wiggins , nor ignoring that he has been playing better from offensive prospective but i think you seriously overlooked how much worse he is defensively now comparing to the 2022 playoffs. Wiggs used to be a top 3 defense every night during playoff runs but he is a slight net negative right now (behind most of the benches and Dray and Looney) He is just not trying out there. Combine that with a huge blackhole on offense he is pretty bad right now..It will take a lot to turn that around.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2022.html

[CDM_Stats]

Oh no! Klay made a bad play or two here and there in a game they won!

Because no other player ever makes a bad play!

I call out bad plays by everyone. Klay has been habitually quitting on plays, so yeah, gonna call it out. There's literally posts about trading Klay in the thread... go be a bitch there

There's only one person bitching, after a win no less.

It aint me.

Actually.. I posted that during the game. And then you complained immediately after the game. So.. you're deep in the struggle

[wco81]

I call out bad plays by everyone. Klay has been habitually quitting on plays, so yeah, gonna call it out. There's literally posts about trading Klay in the thread... go be a bitch there

There's only one person bitching, after a win no less.

It aint me.

Actually.. I posted that during the game. And then you complained immediately after the game. So.. you're deep in the struggle

Oh?

Where and on which player did I bitch about in this thread?

[CDM_Stats]

i am not down playing the importance of wiggins , nor ignoring that he has been playing better from offensive prospective but i think you seriously overlooked how much worse he is defensively now comparing to the 2022 playoffs. Wiggs used to be a top 3 defense every night during playoff runs but he is a slight net negative right now (behind most of the benches and Dray and Looney) He is just not trying out there. Combine that with a huge blackhole on offense he is pretty bad right now..It will take a lot to turn that around.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2022.html

Tell me why he's struggling

Also, tell me why the lineup where Moody replaces Klay is our best one.

If you can explain both of those things without just pointing to BBRef, I'll listen. But I think you are letting the raw results dictate your opinion, and that's never going to point out the root cause.

Example: Klay was an elite man defender from 2015-2018. He had a negative DBPM, negative DRPM. Why? Jordan Poole had a -0.3 DBPM in his best season (21-22). Wiggins, who had the 2nd lowest oFG% against players he guarded, clocked in at +0.1. Nemanja Bjelica clocked in at +2.2. Why?

[CDM_Stats]

There's only one person bitching, after a win no less.

It aint me.

Actually.. I posted that during the game. And then you complained immediately after the game. So.. you're deep in the struggle

Oh?

Where and on which player did I bitch about in this thread?

jesus this is sad

[wco81]

Actually.. I posted that during the game. And then you complained immediately after the game. So.. you're deep in the struggle

Oh?

Where and on which player did I bitch about in this thread?

jesus this is sad

Was there suppose to be substance there? Supposed meta comment and more emojis!

Oh yes, you couldn't back up the earlier assertion that I complained about a player.

[watch1958]

Kerr quoted Ron Adam’s on what the Dubs need going forward: “A sign that says ‘no buffoonery’.”

[Coxy]

I just LOL'd out loud when I saw the result just now.

How did we win that today. The Clippers may be worse than I thought.

[whatisacenter]

The TNF just ended.... and Cowgirls can beat a team with winning record.... barely.

Okay. Paying attention to this game now.

You watch football?

I gave that sport up a few years ago and have never looked back.

Retired raider fan?

Nailed it...was a season ticket holder and turned them in as well as my NFL fandom when they announced they were going to move to LV.

[whatisacenter]

You watch football?

I gave that sport up a few years ago and have never looked back.

Retired raider fan?

Glad Raiders gone. And A's next. Oakland is a mess.

boooo you!

[Crazy-Canuck]

I just LOL'd out loud when I saw the result just now.

How did we win that today. The Clippers may be worse than I thought.

Klay and kuminga played their best game of the season thus far.

Podz was a huge energy boost off the bench.

The Clippers were playing their 3rd game in 4 nights and on a b2b while the dubs were rested. They had no legs from the tip.

[Coxy]

I just LOL'd out loud when I saw the result just now.

How did we win that today. The Clippers may be worse than I thought.

Klay and kuminga played their best game of the season thus far.

Podz was a huge energy boost off the bench.

The Clippers were playing their 3rd game in 4 nights and on a b2b while the dubs were rested. They had no legs from the tip.

Thanks for the synopsis. Shame I missed it. Never gets old beating Harden and Westbrick.