PG Bulls - Loss

[fan230]

Our offense overall is good. Even yesterday in the 4 th quarter, Malik Brook and Giannis were v good in offense.

Our defense however continues to be bad. Let us consider what can be done. Two main choices: 1) change the defense scheme 2) change personnel

Which one should we try first?

Option 2: is a semi permanent decision. Secondly we can go from the frying pan into the fire, situation.

Option 1): This is a much more flexible, much less risky option Today we are putting our veteran players like Khris and Brook into playing roles completely unsuited to their abilities. We have also taken out Giannis from his Safety role which made him so effective along with Brook. I am urging AG to not adopt a square peg in a round hole approach. It is not working.

Let us try option 1, now and not wait even one game. And see what happens.

Else, whether we support AG or not, we are going to lose the precious season and our window of championship will be closer to being shut.

[tydett]

Outside of Griffin being a tire fire of a coach, MarJon looking like a bust is so incredibly disappointing. Thought there was a real chance he was a nice 20-25 mpg 3&D wing this year, and he just looks like a bum. Thankfully Dre still looks like there’s a special role player there if they just gave him the reps to develop.

Herein lies the issue - he's got clear potential and promise and our bum-ass gives him DNPs or garbage time minutes. The two SFs on our roster ahead of him being hurt should up his PT, but it hasn't because... reasons?

And furthermore, I submit the team should fire Adrian Griffin.

[MissKhriddleton]

And Nurse was a Kawhi buzzer-beater bailing his ass out away from never getting past the 2nd round of the playoffs. Talented players making clutch plays tend to paper over a lot of shortcomings, unless you're Bud of course.

Yeah but that game would have gone overtime at least. I can't imagine there is anyone in the world that actually thinks Bud is a better coach than Nurse. That's insane.

One guy won 60-games and made the Conference Finals with this roster.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2015.html

Hell, Nurse probably plays Horford and Kyle Korver 37 MPG and runs them both into the ground en route to 48-wins and a 1st round exit. "Insane", sure, whatever.

Every game that goes by that this team displays a complete lack of cohesion, discipline, and motivation the coaching job by Bud becomes that much more impressive. Time for people to accept that we weren't a juggernaut that should have won multple titles, but instead a middling 4/5 seed that Bud dragged to consistently the best record in the East and a championship. The 2015 Hawks are great evidence of that.

[Ron Swanson]

People always blame the coach for when young players don't pan out, but that's one thing I'm not gonna blame Griffin for. If Marjon got DNP's under Bud, and hasn't/isn't going to blossom under Griffin as well, then what does that tell you? Talented players become good players largely regardless of circumstances. Horst's draft record is extremely suspect at this point, regardless of how little high picks he's had to work with.

[sidney lanier]

Our offense overall is good. Even yesterday in the 4 th quarter, Malik Brook and Giannis were v good in offense.

Our defense however continues to be bad. Let us consider what can be done. Two main choices: 1) change the defense scheme 2) change personnel

Which one should we try first?

Option 2: is a semi permanent decision. Secondly we can go from the frying pan into the fire, situation.

Option 1): This is a much more flexible, much less risky option Today we are putting our veteran players like Khris and Brook into playing roles completely unsuited to their abilities. We have also taken out Giannis from his Safety role which made him so effective along with Brook. I am urging AG to not adopt a square peg in a round hole approach. It is not working.

Let us try option 1, now and not wait even one game. And see what happens.

Else, whether we support AG or not, we are going to lose the precious season and our window of championship will be closer to being shut.

I think they are trying Option 1, but it's still a work in progress. Effective defensive schemes, whether man-to-man, zone, or hybrid, are characterized by the formation of what they call a convex hull.


https://squared2020.com/2015/11/08/building-nba-defenses-using-the-convex-hull/

That in turn requires coordination, and it will take a while for our Rockettes to learn to kick together.

[German Athens]

Marjon fumbling that ball out of bounds in transition, and then shot putting the ball off the backboard when he had two teammates wide open on the wings during another transition sequence were particularly discouraging.

[James_Henry]

In the case of Marjon, I'll say it again: Jaime Jaquez. Some players improve quite a bit with time, but you also know after a few times of watching when a guy is going to be good, reallyy good, right off the bat. He's taking advantage of Herro's absence and he won't be going back to the bench for just garbage minutes when Herro returns. I watch him and see exactly what the Bucks need/crave: big guard, great footwork, can shoot lights out, great understanding of passing lanes, can rebound, etc. etc.

That's the type we need to be looking for. One of the few types of player I'd give up Bobby for. Then again...does giving up Bobby mean Robin Time?

Griff is playing Marjon more than Bud ever did.

[paulpressey25]

Every game that goes by that this team displays a complete lack of cohesion, discipline, and motivation the coaching job by Bud becomes that much more impressive. Time for people to accept that we weren't a juggernaut that should have won multple titles, but instead a middling 4/5 seed that Bud dragged to consistently the best record in the East and a championship. The 2015 Hawks are great evidence of that.

When we had the Bud firing debates back in May, had pointed out that teams that won multiple titles all had multiple HOF players. Bucks didn’t have that during his five year run.

GSW: Steph, Klay, Draymond, KD
Heat: LeBron, Bosh, Wade
Spurs: Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Kawhi, David Robinson
LAL I: Kobe, Shaq
LAL II: Kobe, Pau

Midds, Bledsoe and Jrue don’t equal the resumes of the guys above. Middleton played like Kawhi in 2021, but non-factor past two years due to injuries. Brook is approaching that status, but he’s a platoon situational guy.

[greekbuck34]

All of the games apart from the Vegas in season tour ones are in our arena the next 20 days. It's a huge opportunity to fix important stuff without much travelling in between. Play seriously from the 1st quarter. Focus on defense and rebounding.

[CharityStripe34]

People always blame the coach for when young players don't pan out, but that's one thing I'm not gonna blame Griffin for. If Marjon got DNP's under Bud, and hasn't/isn't going to blossom under Griffin as well, then what does that tell you? Talented players become good players largely regardless of circumstances. Horst's draft record is extremely suspect at this point, regardless of how little high picks he's had to work with.

At this point I'm just hoping one of MJB and AJJr pans out to be a solid rotational wing. One of them becoming a good role player or possibly a starter would be huge.

[BucksFanSD]

I have cooled off MarJon a lot since Week 2 and 3 of the season. I am noticing a trend such as last season where he slowly loses his confidence and his ability to make solid decisions compared to earlier season games. This is an odd thing with him and he just doesn't seem dependable. You don't see that from AJJ though, which is good. I hope somehow MarJon gets his lightning back.

[KidA24]

Our offense overall is good. Even yesterday in the 4 th quarter, Malik Brook and Giannis were v good in offense.

Our defense however continues to be bad. Let us consider what can be done. Two main choices: 1) change the defense scheme 2) change personnel

Which one should we try first?

Option 2: is a semi permanent decision. Secondly we can go from the frying pan into the fire, situation.

Option 1): This is a much more flexible, much less risky option Today we are putting our veteran players like Khris and Brook into playing roles completely unsuited to their abilities. We have also taken out Giannis from his Safety role which made him so effective along with Brook. I am urging AG to not adopt a square peg in a round hole approach. It is not working.

Let us try option 1, now and not wait even one game. And see what happens.

Else, whether we support AG or not, we are going to lose the precious season and our window of championship will be closer to being shut.

I think they are trying Option 1, but it's still a work in progress. Effective defensive schemes, whether man-to-man, zone, or hybrid, are characterized by the formation of what they call a convex hull.


https://squared2020.com/2015/11/08/building-nba-defenses-using-the-convex-hull/

That in turn requires coordination, and it will take a while for our Rockettes to learn to kick together.

It's been two months.

Do things look better now than a month ago?

I'm not so sure they do. The only thing that has changed is the players revolted and insisted they play at least some drop. That, apparently, isn't a knock against Griffin, but rather, only a knock against Bud (players revolting over defensive schemes).

[jute2003]

This team has had a coasting problem for years. There is some selective memory going on.

[Ron Swanson]

8-straight home stretch coming up against the following:

Atlanta
NYK
Chicago
Indiana
Detroit
Houston
San Antonio
Orlando

Would love to hear what people think we'd have to go in that stretch for Griffin's firing to start becoming a remote possibility. 3-5? 2-6? I'm just not seeing it. At worst I'm seeing 5-3 and no worse than 20-11 by January 1st.

[VooDoo7]

I'm still miffed at inbounding the ball to Giannis up 1, with CHI needing to foul. Yeah, he made both FTs which is great, but that should NEVER be a possibility in that situation. Never.

[GiannisAnte34]

at least it's profitable to bet against this clown show team

the Packers will also be due for their usual floundering

[Brewhoopfan]

I'm still miffed at inbounding the ball to Giannis up 1, with CHI needing to foul. Yeah, he made both FTs which is great, but that should NEVER be a possibility in that situation. Never.

1000% agree. Aligning the players (Giannis) to get the exact result the other teams wants is beyond stupid. And there wasn't even an attempt to free up Dame.

[th87]

What confuses me about the nearly universal attitude of despair here after a few close wins and one bad loss is the mismatch between "let's give them a month or two to learn how to play together" and the fire-the-coach-because-the-defense-sucks sentiment.

What exactly did you think the adjustment period would look like? Good basketball on both ends of the court but just getting outplayed? That's not what a period of adjustment is.

It's the ugly duckling we see now. It may or may not eventually emerge as a swan, but it's a little too early to throw it in a pot and make duck soup. Or swan soup.

Players seem to be out of position by design.

A more hopeful scenario would be being in position, but not always executing.

[GoldenAntlers]

I have cooled off MarJon a lot since Week 2 and 3 of the season. I am noticing a trend such as last season where he slowly loses his confidence and his ability to make solid decisions compared to earlier season games. This is an odd thing with him and he just doesn't seem dependable. You don't see that from AJJ though, which is good. I hope somehow MarJon gets his lightning back.

Yeah, I'm off the Marjon train. If he surprises me, great! I don't expect it though. AJJ shows more in half the playing time and without a season and G league under his belt.

[bucksfansince88]

I'm still miffed at inbounding the ball to Giannis up 1, with CHI needing to foul. Yeah, he made both FTs which is great, but that should NEVER be a possibility in that situation. Never.

1000% agree. Aligning the players (Giannis) to get the exact result the other teams wants is beyond stupid. And there wasn't even an attempt to free up Dame.

Dame was noticably frustrated. Khris went over to talk to him, Giannis needs to get his head out of his ass