Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now

[tsherkin]

It would surely help his efficiency if he didn't have to create as much of his own offense...

Yes. His proportion of assisted buckets has definitely withered over the past 4 years. It says something about the limitations of his game, but also about how he might be better deployed.

[cgf]

It would surely help his efficiency if he didn't have to create as much of his own offense...

Yes. His proportion of assisted buckets has definitely withered over the past 4 years. It says something about the limitations of his game, but also about how he might be better deployed.

It's definitely had it's ups & downs. Like he probably wouldn't have become as good of a playmaker (or at passing out of double-teams) as he has if we hadn't asked too much of him, but it's killed his scoring efficiency for us...which is why it was no surprise to me that the instant we gave him a partner that could take the ball out of his hands, he had his most efficient season as a knick.

In an ideal world he'd be on a team with a title caliber perimeter #1; someone through whom the offense flowed and who defenses keyed in on, but was also lethal as a C&S guy that Julius could run some 2-man actions with...aka someone like Booker...and a bunch of capable shooters for them to feed.

[tsherkin]

In an ideal world he'd be on a team with a title caliber perimeter #1; someone through whom the offense flowed and who defenses keyed in on, but was also lethal as a C&S guy that Julius could run some 2-man actions with...aka someone like Booker...and a bunch of capable shooters for them to feed.

Yeah, I mean team quality always helps provide an environment for best success. I have said similar things about Scottie Barnes, for example. Some guys just shouldn't be asked to shoulder too much of the load and too much individually-created offense, and that's fine. Franchises often ask too much of a player and put them in bad positions when they don't have a ton of better or more-appropriate talent around them.

[NyKnicks1714]

That Nurkic non-contest was the most disrespectful thing I've ever seen in an NBA game.

[iLLmatic860]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=tVloFuZHnRcV_n-C8CiW9Q

[Scalabrine]

Averaging 25/10/5.5 on 46.5/31.5/72.5 over the past 12 since a rough start.

[tsherkin]

Averaging 25/10/5.5 on 46.5/31.5/72.5 over the past 12 since a rough start.

Doing it on 55.9% TS, still 1.6% below league average, though.

[cgf]

Averaging 25/10/5.5 on 46.5/31.5/72.5 over the past 12 since a rough start.

Doing it on 55.9% TS, still 1.6% below league average, though.

True, Julius hasn't gotten hot-hot yet despite starting to look more like himself after those hideous first few games...and he's still not shooting the 3 as well as we expect him to...

Now some of that is likely him still finding his shooting-rhythm / scoring-mojo after surgery, and some of that has probably come from him ending up being our main playmaker on the court while Brunson and Barrett focused on scoring, more than last year.

...but we also just haven't seen Julius back to his best yet, even for just 1 game...he did go supernova for a quarter recently, but last season he would do that in more 1st quarters than not; even if he often cooled off in the second half.

[tsherkin]

...but we also just haven't seen Julius back to his best yet, even for just 1 game...he did go supernova for a quarter recently, but last season he would do that in more 1st quarters than not; even if he often cooled off in the second half.

The season is long, so we'll see what happens. I only remarked on his efficiency over that stretch when it was presented as a major shift in his play.

He has certainly been shooting better than the garbage over the first few games, but I think everyone sane knew that wasn't going to last. Dude shot 27.1% over the first 6 games; say what you will about the guy, fan or not, he has already demonstrated well enough that he isn't that level of hot garbage. He has been shooting 46.6% since, which isn't outrageous. He's shooting 31.3% from 3 over that stretch as well. He's actually only had 3 seasons where he shot 32%+ and two of them were at 34% or so, which means we aren't much likely to see him really ripping it up from 3 to a considerably greater extent than he has been of late. The 72.6% he is shooting from the line over this latest stretch is better, though, because he was at an abysmal 61.8% prior to that.

So he's slowly normalizing, about as expected.

[DrCoach]

Lol

[cgf]

Julius with 20-10-9 and just 2 TOs on good efficiency (15FGA, 3FTA) against a long Toronto team that should've been well equipped to deal with him.

[Scalabrine]

...but we also just haven't seen Julius back to his best yet, even for just 1 game...he did go supernova for a quarter recently, but last season he would do that in more 1st quarters than not; even if he often cooled off in the second half.

The season is long, so we'll see what happens. I only remarked on his efficiency over that stretch when it was presented as a major shift in his play.

He has certainly been shooting better than the garbage over the first few games, but I think everyone sane knew that wasn't going to last. Dude shot 27.1% over the first 6 games; say what you will about the guy, fan or not, he has already demonstrated well enough that he isn't that level of hot garbage. He has been shooting 46.6% since, which isn't outrageous. He's shooting 31.3% from 3 over that stretch as well. He's actually only had 3 seasons where he shot 32%+ and two of them were at 34% or so, which means we aren't much likely to see him really ripping it up from 3 to a considerably greater extent than he has been of late. The 72.6% he is shooting from the line over this latest stretch is better, though, because he was at an abysmal 61.8% prior to that.

So he's slowly normalizing, about as expected.

and if he can get back up between 75-80% that will bring his TS% up too.

[tsherkin]

and if he can get back up between 75-80% that will bring his TS% up too.

Yes it will. I also would expect him to stop sucking from 10 feet out to the 3pt line. He's shooting well below his career averages in those zones, and that's like 15% of his shooting volume. He's got a ways to go before he fully normalizes. That all might take him near to league average.

[cgf]

and if he can get back up between 75-80% that will bring his TS% up too.

Yes it will. I also would expect him to stop sucking from 10 feet out to the 3pt line. He's shooting well below his career averages in those zones, and that's like 15% of his shooting volume. He's got a ways to go before he fully normalizes. That all might take him near to league average.

Yeah. Unless Brunson or Barrett turn into an MVP-level player...or we trade one of them+ for an MVP-level guy...so Julius gets to just feast on one-on-ones with the opponent's second or third best defender, I don't think we'll ever see him scoring at above average league efficiency again*.

But with his playmaking, foul-drawing, rebounding, and the defensivee attention he demands, I won't be complaining about getting that kind of volume on "just" league average efficiency...even if I've given up hope on him ever tightening his handle enough to cut the turnovers down any lower than they were last season.


*although Robinson sitting under the rim, waiting to gobble up boards, probably doesn't help any of our slashers' finishing rates, and so efficiency...even if it does help us as a team.

[tsherkin]

Yeah. Unless Brunson or Barrett turn into an MVP-level player...or we trade one of them+ for an MVP-level guy...so Julius gets to just feast on one-on-ones with the opponent's second or third best defender, I don't think we'll ever see him scoring at above average league efficiency again*.

It does put a cap on his utility/offensive ceiling, of course. Volume scorers at league-average efficiency are only really of use on bad offensive teams. Much above that, they start to detract too much from team offense to be valuable in-role. On a better team, with different possession types and more passing support, he could fill a lower volume role at higher efficiency and contribute to better team offense, for sure.

[cgf]

Yeah. Unless Brunson or Barrett turn into an MVP-level player...or we trade one of them+ for an MVP-level guy...so Julius gets to just feast on one-on-ones with the opponent's second or third best defender, I don't think we'll ever see him scoring at above average league efficiency again*.

It does put a cap on his utility/offensive ceiling, of course. Volume scorers at league-average efficiency are only really of use on bad offensive teams. Much above that, they start to detract too much from team offense to be valuable in-role. On a better team, with different possession types and more passing support, he could fill a lower volume role at higher efficiency and contribute to better team offense, for sure.

I hear what you're saying but a few things make me more optimistic that Julius could be really useful as a 2nd/3rd option on a contender...assuming his playoff struggles have been due to the injury & Payton/Noel rather than him just always choking under the pressure...other than him having been one of the two main pillars of a top 10 offense last season.

A) He doesn't just contribute his volume scoring, but also his playmaking, foul-baiting, rebounding, and his gravity at a position where there are some great help defenders that he can pull away from the rim even without getting doubled...like he did with Mobley & Bam last spring despite being awful at putting the ball in the hoop...all make life easier for his team-mates.

B) his efficiency next to a superstar probably wouldn't be the same as it is currently since teams wouldn't be able to double-team him nearly as much and he could be more selective with his touches, not needing to force things as much as he has for us...different role & different Julius, but the big fella did score 20ppg on 60% TS when he had AD & Jrue taking teams' attention.

C) Can't point to anything to support this, but having followed his career for 6 years now, I get the feeling that Julius takes so many possessions off defensively in the regular season because of the scoring burden he has had to carry for us and because he plays through so many knocks. So if he no longer had that kind of offensive burden, I think he could defend consistently more like he did in 2021

...the way playing with Jokic & co. has let Gordon focus on his D in a way he didn't before, or how KAT has improved defensively as Ant has taken over the main offensive burden...I know there were other factors at play for each of them, but I do think that has been part of it for both of them, and that Julius's D would similarly benefit if he didn't tire himself out so much on the offensive end of the court.

[John Murdoch]

Luke Walton had it right ...hes a super sub 6th man masquerading as a star player

[Chuck Everett]

Man, the Knicks are a Bogdanovic (Det) for Fournier and a protected pick trade away from being a nightmare to play against.

[cgf]

Man, the Knicks are a Bogdanovic (Det) for Fournier and a protected pick trade away from being a nightmare to play against.

The Knicks are tied for the 6th best 3pt% in the NBA...early days, so we'll probably drop from there as the season goes along, but this team has a lot of guys that can drain 3s*...and I'm dubious that Bogdanovich has the defense to get much PT from Thibs.

I think someone like Barnes, DFS, or O'Neale would do more for us.

EDIT:
*Brunson, Grimes, Quickley, and DDV are all really good/excellent 3pt shooters. Hart is pretty average but has been shooting very well on low volume as a Knick. While Barrett and Randle are much streakier, but both are credible threats from deep that get really hot when they're hot and can win games with their 3s if teams let them get on a roll. The 5 is the only spot we don't get spacing from.

[cgf]

Luke Walton had it right ...hes a super sub 6th man masquerading as a star player

While I held the same opinion when I first started watching him with the Pels, Julius isn't the same player he was in LA. The guy he's been under Thibs is a legit star; he just should be your 2nd or 3rd star...which is why Brunson has been so good for him. JB is a similar level star to Julius, but he's very smart and can run the team in crunch time.