Bears 2023 thread V

[Hold That]

Like I said it’s either Penix or Caleb… Maye is the fools gold of the draft..


Mark my words

[Chi town]

Like I said it’s either Penix or Caleb… Maye is the fools gold of the draft..


Mark my words

I’ve been out on Maye as well. I’d take Daniels over Penix though. Just don’t believe in his health after two acl’s.

Don’t know what to think about Nix. Think he’s more of a game manager.

[Dresden]

but it doesnt sound like you realize there's at best a 50/50 drafting Maye or Williams is drafting Trubisky or trading for Cutler all over again - its hard to be a good QB in the NFL. Careful what you wish for.

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

[Dresden]

It's just one game, but Penix was the better QB tonight. He made more big plays- he threw 3 or 4 deep balls that went for completions, and generally just looked better. Hard to say how much is the QB, how much is the defense they were throwing against or the ability of their receivers to get open. But Penix was more impressive tonight.

Will be fun to see them in the playoffs against a defense like MI. Go Pac-10!

[kyrv]

I think what might be best for this offense is a mix of short passes, moving pockets and vertical strikes, with the occasional mid range pass thrown in to mix it up. Combine that with the strong run game and OCCASIONAL QB keeper.

Screens, slants, hooks, quick outs, AND deep strikes. Keep moving the pocket. I think some of those screens need to go vertical. Maybe a fake to one side, while the opposite side streaks. Last weeks play calling was better, we just needed a few more slants one or two more vertical routes (like the one Scott could not reel in).

You want to protect Fields and the O-line = Short passing game and moving pockets....plus strong run game.
The short game/run leads to 8 or 9 in the box and tight coverage. That is what the deep passes are for..... to punish that behavior.
The short/long combo game allows for the occasional mid-range game since that is not the strength of this team unless it is wide open (which is why it is occasional, and should always have a check down RB out of the backfield. LB's are close due to the run game/short pass...but it is still a 2 high look. It opens space between LB's and safeties).

Basically, mix up the Detroit game plan with some of the Washington game plan (and add more slants, hooks, and quick outs instead of depending on 3 WR screens or 4 RB screens in a row).

There was a previous regime, can't recall who, but they were in love with the seldom working wide receiver screen. This past game brought back the nightmare.

I also thought throwing downfield was one of Fields' plusses. But as you said, at least find out.

Trestman was the one who loved WR screens. Nagy was in love with the 3-4 hitch routes per pass play.

Thanks! Good times...

[kyrv]

Like I said it’s either Penix or Caleb… Maye is the fools gold of the draft..


Mark my words

I’ve been out on Maye as well. I’d take Daniels over Penix though. Just don’t believe in his health after two acl’s.

Don’t know what to think about Nix. Think he’s more of a game manager.

I haven't seen much of Maye, I agree on Nix. Excellent college QB I would be kinda surprised if he was elite in the NFL.

A bit ago I was really on board with this being a stacked QB class but I agree with you both, one, two tops will be super good (just my guess).

[Almost Retired]

Like I said it’s either Penix or Caleb… Maye is the fools gold of the draft..


Mark my words

I have to agree on Maye. I've watched 3 or 4 NC games this year. He was just OK. Not really spectacular. He's had 3 games where he gave up 2 INTs. His TD to INT ratio is not that great (24:9). It would probably have been even worse if he played in the SEC. He looks the part though. About 6' 4" and 230 lbs. Great arm. Maybe his average stats are due to a lack of high quality receivers. But I'm very skeptical at this point.

[molepharmer]

It's just one game, but Penix was the better QB tonight. He made more big plays- he threw 3 or 4 deep balls that went for completions, and generally just looked better. Hard to say how much is the QB, how much is the defense they were throwing against or the ability of their receivers to get open. But Penix was more impressive tonight.

Will be fun to see them in the playoffs against a defense like MI. Go Pac-10!

Thought it was hard to evaluate the two QBs against each other. Penix had more time in the pocket, a more balanced offense and better WRs. Nix seemed to be under pressure a lot, had no running game support and his WRs weren't of the same caliber. I thought Nix completed the more difficult passes, against tighter windows.

[Almost Retired]

It's just one game, but Penix was the better QB tonight. He made more big plays- he threw 3 or 4 deep balls that went for completions, and generally just looked better. Hard to say how much is the QB, how much is the defense they were throwing against or the ability of their receivers to get open. But Penix was more impressive tonight.

Will be fun to see them in the playoffs against a defense like MI. Go Pac-10!

It was the worst game Nix has played this year that I watched. It probably cost him the Heisman to Daniels. And yet he still had flashes. That 2nd TD pass where he was on the move and off balance and still threw an absolute strike was impressive. And his 40 yard scamper up the sideline. Some of his troubles were O-Line related. Washington was absolutely dominant on both line matchups. There were times Penix had what seemed like 10 seconds to throw, while Nix was under pressure constantly. To me though the best player on the field was Odunze. I think he will go top 10 easily.Very impressive again. He's my second favorite receiver in the draft after Harrison. His combination of size, speed, great hands, savvy in creating space....he's going to be a good one.

[Michael Jackson]

I am taking Ryan Leaf

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

but it doesnt sound like you realize there's at best a 50/50 drafting Maye or Williams is drafting Trubisky or trading for Cutler all over again - its hard to be a good QB in the NFL. Careful what you wish for.

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

I think the odds are less that they even become as good as Cutler.

[fleet]

Brad Biggs:

"For those who are upset with the discussion of the possibility of the team possibly moving on from him after the season should probably adjust that to the probability that the team moves on from Justin Fields after the season, because that's where it appears to be headed as I evaluate the situation. There are five games remaining, so he's got an opportunity to change the trajectory of this thing. But the evaluation at Halas Hall is going to be made on the entirety of it, not how people felt on December 1. It's the entire season"

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/top-bears-insider-gives-bleak-justin-fields-update/

[Kurt Heimlich]

Brad Biggs:

"For those who are upset with the discussion of the possibility of the team possibly moving on from him after the season should probably adjust that to the probability that the team moves on from Justin Fields after the season, because that's where it appears to be headed as I evaluate the situation. There are five games remaining, so he's got an opportunity to change the trajectory of this thing. But the evaluation at Halas Hall is going to be made on the entirety of it, not how people felt on December 1. It's the entire season"

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/top-bears-insider-gives-bleak-justin-fields-update/

There's still a bunch of moving target, "what if's" remaining between now Dec 2nd and April 2024 (what picks do we end up with, does caleb declare, does MHJ declare, whos our coach, whos our gm, etc) so I get why people still pontificate the idea of keeping Fields. And some fans made Fields "their guy" a while ago, so letting go of that feeling is a difficult one for sure.

But Fields play/"development" this year has not given me warm and fuzzies and he is nearing the end of his all important rookie deal in short order. Having potentially two top 5 picks including possibly the #1 overall (again) is an opportunity that can't be taken lightly for a team without it's "guy" at QB. From a GM/front office perspective, if you pass on the top QBs in the draft two years in a row for Fields, you better be ridiculously sure he's it, which I can't imagine that is how they feel right now.

[HearshotKDS]

but it doesnt sound like you realize there's at best a 50/50 drafting Maye or Williams is drafting Trubisky or trading for Cutler all over again - its hard to be a good QB in the NFL. Careful what you wish for.

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

Not trying to be a dick here just want to get on the same page: when you say the odds are much less are you actually trying to say they have a better than 50/50 chance? Generally when you say "the odds are less" it means a lower chance of happening - not trying to play English teacher just trying to get your intended meaning here.

[fleet]

but it doesnt sound like you realize there's at best a 50/50 drafting Maye or Williams is drafting Trubisky or trading for Cutler all over again - its hard to be a good QB in the NFL. Careful what you wish for.

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

I think the odds are less that they even become as good as Cutler.

I would take Cutler at this point. But I think both quarterbacks are better at running on time plays fwiw. Both have very high floors. Maye is the safest quarterback in the draft. I believe he will offer stability, and the ability to run the OC's offense. The upside quality of which is indeterminate. However, running the offensive system adequately is pretty valuable. The thing about Maye? His O-line is horrible. He is a one man team. Once he fits into a strong unit, we would see what he offers far better. Williams? he's gonna flash absolute brilliance. How consistently he runs the offense we don't fully understand yet. He has hero ball complex, which needs to be broken from his approach.

[Dresden]

but it doesnt sound like you realize there's at best a 50/50 drafting Maye or Williams is drafting Trubisky or trading for Cutler all over again - its hard to be a good QB in the NFL. Careful what you wish for.

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

Not trying to be a dick here just want to get on the same page: when you say the odds are much less are you actually trying to say they have a better than 50/50 chance? Generally when you say "the odds are less" it means a lower chance of happening - not trying to play English teacher just trying to get your intended meaning here.

Sorry if I was unclear. First off, I would say Cutler was not at all in the same category as Mitch. Cutler put up some big seasons for us, and was a big part of why we got to the NFC title game one year. So I think if Maye or Caleb reaches that level, that's a decent outcome already.

I don't think there's much of a chance at all they won't be better than Mitch. Like less than 5%. So the way you phrased your post came across like "well, we're taking the same chance with Maye or Caleb as we took with Mitch". And I don't think that's the case at all.

From what I've read about Maye and Caleb by "professional" evaluators, these are two of the more talented QB prospects to come for awhile. At or close to, the level of Trevor Lawrence. So I really don't think there's much risk in taking either of them. Or at least I wouldn't look at it that way- I wouldn't say, "well, we know what we have in Justin Fields, but drafting Maye or Caleb, we could be looking at another Mitch".

The floor of either Maye or Caleb, is, at I said, very likely a long term starter for some team. IMO. Whether they'll be on a Joe Burrows/Mahomes level, or just, say, a Justin Herbert or Jared Goff level remains to be seen. But I think the potential is there for either to be MVP type players.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

I think the odds are less that they even become as good as Cutler.

I would take Cutler at this point. But I think both quarterbacks are better at running on time plays fwiw. Both have very high floors. Maye is the safest quarterback in the draft. I believe he will offer stability, and the ability to run the OC's offense. The upside quality of which is indeterminate. However, running the offensive system adequately is pretty valuable. The thing about Maye? His O-line is horrible. He is a one man team. Once he fits into a strong unit, we would see what he offers far better. Williams? he's gonna flash absolute brilliance. How consistently he runs the offense we don't fully understand yet. He has hero ball complex, which needs to be broken from his approach.

I don’t know, sounds like Trubisky and Fields 2.0 in this draft and we are lining up to draft them. Its like a sick joke. I’d take Cutler at this point too lol.

[Dresden]

Like I said it’s either Penix or Caleb… Maye is the fools gold of the draft..


Mark my words

I have to agree on Maye. I've watched 3 or 4 NC games this year. He was just OK. Not really spectacular. He's had 3 games where he gave up 2 INTs. His TD to INT ratio is not that great (24:9). It would probably have been even worse if he played in the ACC. He looks the part though. About 6' 4" and 230 lbs. Great arm. Maybe his average stats are due to a lack of high quality receivers. But I'm very skeptical at this point.

The one criticism he gets is that he sometimes throws into tight coverage. But that can also be a positive- you don't want your qB to be like Justin Fields and only throw it when the guy is wide open. Sometimes you need to give your receivers a chance to make a play. Maybe he needs to tame that down a bit.

But the arm talent is there. I think he's got a bigger arm than either Penix or Nix. He can throw accurately on the run. And he seems to know where to throw it, which to me is a big factor in evaluating a QB. Is he able to find guys downfield? Does he know where the coverage is going to allow him to make a throw? Can he manufacture something when the play breaks down?

I only watched Maye play one game start to finish, so my knowledge of him is limited, but from what I saw he just looks the part of a prototypical NFL QB, both physically and the way he plays. If you give him weapons and a decent line, I believe he will consistently put up big numbers.

I'd say the one thing we may not know about him is if he can win games. Does he have that knack? Penix seems to have that, and Nix, too.

[dice]

Like I said it’s either Penix or Caleb… Maye is the fools gold of the draft..


Mark my words

I’ve been out on Maye as well. I’d take Daniels over Penix though. Just don’t believe in his health after two acl’s.

Don’t know what to think about Nix. Think he’s more of a game manager.

he's one of the quickest to get the ball out and has a beautiful sidearm quick out. basically the anti-justin in terms of throwing

not sure 40 TDs vs. 3 INTs screams game manager

[dice]

but it doesnt sound like you realize there's at best a 50/50 drafting Maye or Williams is drafting Trubisky or trading for Cutler all over again - its hard to be a good QB in the NFL. Careful what you wish for.

I don't think that's true at all. the odds of Maye or Caleb being Trubisky or Cutler is much less than 50/50. Both Maye and Caleb are the cream of the cream of the crop as far as QB prospects go. They could be busts, sure, but I think the odds are much less than 50/50. I'd be surprised if both of them aren't 8-10 year starters in the league, barring injury.

I think the odds are less that they even become as good as Cutler.

maybe, but the gamble on upside would still have them go higher than a young cutler