Who's your early season pick for mvp

[Peregrine01]

Surprised to see Jokic with a big lead in this thread. I'm a big Jokic believer but the Nuggets aren't playing anywhere like the one seed. Their SRS is really weak and they've scraped by with a lot of close wins - this has something to do with how great Jokic is in end of game situations but this team isn't anywhere near as good as their seeding suggests.

Anyway, I still think it's Tatum for now.

[70sFan]

You love using that word "sophisticated" about today's defense, but there is nothing special about it. It's mostly switch and 1-1 on mismatches.

It's really not. Let's take the most recent example and see how Jokic was defended in the recent game against Charlotte when he went to the post (as well as in P&R):

https://nbafullhd.com/92627-2/

9:25 - no switch, no double, missed shot against man defense
11:25 - no switch on P&R
14:03 - no switch on curl to the post, missed shot against man defense
19:44 - no switch, traveling call

I can go on and on. Teams don't switch Jokic P&Rs, because they know he's a mismatch inside.

Just because teams can use zones or as you call it "soft" doubles, it doesn't mean they use it often or they use it effectively. There has never been more space to go 1-1 against mismatches and it's never been easier to get in the paint. It helps a center like Jokic a lot.

Yeah, look at that open space! Jokic can just stand inside and wait for ball to finish:

Watch on YouTube

The reason why the league shoots the 3 at that percentage is because of the pace and the type of shot that's being taken, which is mostly the 3 point shot. Pace and repetition helps shooters to get into the rhytm.

Yeah and the reason why pace is increased is because it's harder to defend fast offenses than slow ones. It's not a rocket science, teams simply realized how to run more effective offense.

But great shooters have existed before this era too. 3 point shot is not some big revelation.

I know that, what's your point?

This whole promotion of it is just a way for the league to speed up the game and make defense less impactful. There is nobody more beneficial of that offensively than a center like Jokic. That's why individual stats don't mean much to me.

Slow methodical players like Jokic are beneficial of fast pace and three point shooting? Seriously?

Notice that I didn't mention a single stat in this thread. You don't need that to realize how amazing Jokic is. He's the most skilled offensive bigman we've ever seen. He can pass like Magic Johnson, he's a great shooter, he can handle the ball and he's amazing post player. I don't need a single stat to understand that Jokic is an all-time great player. Basically every single oldschool fan agrees with that, including former great bigs.

[ty 4191]

Notice that I didn't mention a single stat in this thread. You don't need that to realize how amazing Jokic is. He's the most skilled offensive bigman we've ever seen. He can pass like Magic Johnson, he's a great shooter, he can handle the ball and he's amazing post player. I don't need a single stat to understand that Jokic is an all-time great player. Basically every single oldschool fan agrees with that, including former great bigs.

Where would you rank him among all centers of the past 40 years, based on his prime (last 3 seasons)?

[Woodsanity]

Surprised to see Jokic with a big lead in this thread. I'm a big Jokic believer but the Nuggets aren't playing anywhere like the one seed. Their SRS is really weak and they've scraped by with a lot of close wins - this has something to do with how great Jokic is in end of game situations but this team isn't anywhere near as good as their seeding suggests.

Anyway, I still think it's Tatum for now.

To be fair no one who votes for mvp really cares about SRS. I agree Nuggets actually overachieved record wise relative to their actual play.

Still almost no chance Jokic wins a 3rd in a row, it just rarely ever happens.

If Jokic keeps up his current production and gets the best record in the nba (not just the west) then maybe....

[Statlanta]

Surprised to see Jokic with a big lead in this thread. I'm a big Jokic believer but the Nuggets aren't playing anywhere like the one seed. Their SRS is really weak and they've scraped by with a lot of close wins - this has something to do with how great Jokic is in end of game situations but this team isn't anywhere near as good as their seeding suggests.

Anyway, I still think it's Tatum for now.

The thread is who’s your pick not necessarily who’s going to win. Some would even give it to Curry if the thread was asked just a little earlier.

[70sFan]

Notice that I didn't mention a single stat in this thread. You don't need that to realize how amazing Jokic is. He's the most skilled offensive bigman we've ever seen. He can pass like Magic Johnson, he's a great shooter, he can handle the ball and he's amazing post player. I don't need a single stat to understand that Jokic is an all-time great player. Basically every single oldschool fan agrees with that, including former great bigs.

Where would you rank him among all centers of the past 40 years, based on his prime (last 3 seasons)?

I already answered this question in the other thread about Jokic. Definitely top 10 for peaks, probably closer to 7th than 10th. I guess top 3 seasons would be similar (assuming the pace this year), maybe even slightly higher. For primes as I view them (top 8 seasons), still not close to the top.

[ronnymac2]

Luka is my pick for MVP. This guy is must-see TV and has momentum from upsetting PHX last year in the playoffs. Dallas is performing well enough AND Luka lost a guy in Brunson who has a strong positive narrative surrounding him thus far on his new team. Brunson might be an All-Star, which strengthens Luka as my pick. He's young, dynamic, and has never won an MVP. Amazing stats.

Giannis is his biggest competition for me. The guy is a superstar and has his team performing well despite Middleton's absence.

No way I'm going with Jokic or Tatum. We gave Jokic two MVPs due to merit, but the guy really isn't a superstar. Giving him three would further drag ratings down.

And Tatum would be even worse. We gave him the push last year going into the playoffs, which was justified. Top-5 in jersey sales, good team, very good player, etc. He sorely disappointed with poor ratings in the Finals and being by far the worst finisher from the rim to 10 feet in modern basketball playoff history that I have seen.

The other guys...I mean, you might as well put LeBron in the mix if you're willing to put Durant, Curry, or Davis.

[therealbig3]

I'm really not a fan of Durant, but he's averaging 30 ppg on ridiculous efficiency, and the Nets have officially turned their season around and I don't see how you can say they're not contenders...they're a top 10 team on both sides of the ball right now. That's typically a contender in any season.

To say he's not one of the legit candidates in the MVP race is kind of ridiculous. Realistically speaking, it's always been about best player on one of the best teams. Durant fulfills that requirement, and in fact, he's been the main reason for his team's turnaround, other than the coaching change.

I still think it's Jokic's to lose, but Durant has as good of a case as Giannis and Tatum. In fact, Durant's numbers are better than Tatum's across the board, and the Celtics are barely better in terms of record.

[OhayoKD]

I'm really not a fan of Durant, but he's averaging 30 ppg on ridiculous efficiency, and the Nets have officially turned their season around and I don't see how you can say they're not contenders...they're a top 10 team on both sides of the ball right now. That's typically a contender in any season.

To say he's not one of the legit candidates in the MVP race is kind of ridiculous. Realistically speaking, it's always been about best player on one of the best teams. Durant fulfills that requirement, and in fact, he's been the main reason for his team's turnaround, other than the coaching change.

I still think it's Jokic's to lose, but Durant has as good of a case as Giannis and Tatum. In fact, Durant's numbers are better than Tatum's across the board, and the Celtics are barely better in terms of record.

I mean, we're probably alot more talented than the bucks and maybe more talented than the celtics. He's def been good but idk his case is as good as you're saying.

His game is heavily orientated around scoring, so yeah, you'd want that, but that doesn't necessarily put him on par with players anchoring the offense and defense for their teams. Also have to adjust for league average, 30 ppg really mean that much now.

[eminence]

I'm really not a fan of Durant, but he's averaging 30 ppg on ridiculous efficiency, and the Nets have officially turned their season around and I don't see how you can say they're not contenders...they're a top 10 team on both sides of the ball right now. That's typically a contender in any season.

To say he's not one of the legit candidates in the MVP race is kind of ridiculous. Realistically speaking, it's always been about best player on one of the best teams. Durant fulfills that requirement, and in fact, he's been the main reason for his team's turnaround, other than the coaching change.

I still think it's Jokic's to lose, but Durant has as good of a case as Giannis and Tatum. In fact, Durant's numbers are better than Tatum's across the board, and the Celtics are barely better in terms of record.

Other than scoring efficiency I'm really seeing a pretty limited gap here, and going in Tatums favor at times.

But agreed that KD has been steadily climbing the rankings since the Nash firing, and factoring that there's virtually no chance Luka/Steph actually win it with their teams in the play-in I think KD would be my current #3 pick behind Jokic/Tatum.

[Dr Positivity]

Celtis looked like they're headed for about 65 Ws today so Tatum win wouldn't surprise me

[ty 4191]

My pick would be Nikola Jokic.

As a scorer, a whopping ~70% of his shots come within 0-10 feet, what's just obscene is on shots from 3-10 (40% of his diet), Jokic is currently shooting 65% - numbers pretty similar to what 70s-fan tracked apex Kareem in that range back during the peaks project. He's truly a battering ram at the basket, with phenomenal touch to counter.

Best FG% 3-10 feet, min 3000 attempts, since 1996-1997:



Hilarious!!! He's about 4 standard deviations above the mean. Impossible.

[sp6r=underrated]

My pick would be Nikola Jokic.

As a scorer, a whopping ~70% of his shots come within 0-10 feet, what's just obscene is on shots from 3-10 (40% of his diet), Jokic is currently shooting 65% - numbers pretty similar to what 70s-fan tracked apex Kareem in that range back during the peaks project. He's truly a battering ram at the basket, with phenomenal touch to counter.

Best FG% 3-10 feet, min 3000 attempts, since 1996-1997:



Hilarious!!! He's about 4 standard deviations above the mean. Impossible.

This is legit one of the craziest stats I have ever seen in any sport. He's basically an unstoppable scoring force without any peer for over a quarter of a century. It is on par with Barry Bonds steroids seasons.

Just mind boggling and when you factor in the fact he seemingly has 6 eyeballs and can see the entire court he's an unstoppable offensive force.

[Peregrine01]

My pick would be Nikola Jokic.

As a scorer, a whopping ~70% of his shots come within 0-10 feet, what's just obscene is on shots from 3-10 (40% of his diet), Jokic is currently shooting 65% - numbers pretty similar to what 70s-fan tracked apex Kareem in that range back during the peaks project. He's truly a battering ram at the basket, with phenomenal touch to counter.

Best FG% 3-10 feet, min 3000 attempts, since 1996-1997:



Hilarious!!! He's about 4 standard deviations above the mean. Impossible.

4 SDs above the mean? And that doesn’t even give account to volume. I wonder how many SDs above the mean is Curry’s 3 pt shooting in comparison.