Bears 2023 thread V

[Dresden]

I agree that WR is really important, but historically, as was shown in that chart that someone posted on here, a lot of great WR's come from the later rounds in the draft. that being said, I would go QB with CAR's pick, and then for our own pick, either WR or EDGE. Both are vitally important positions. I think we are ok at OT with Braxton playing well this year. But as the Niners are showing, having a great pass rush is crucial, so EDGE should also be a priority. Tough decision to make.

You trade the Panthers pick, maybe NE if they give up next years 1. Then you go Harrison Jr and with the Bears pick either Alt or Fashanu. If you trade with lets say Washington at #4 then you go with Bowers if Harrison is gone. This isn't a good year to take an edge rusher in the top 5.

So who's playing QB?

Bagent!!!

[madvillian]

Watching the Dolphins game and then the KC v GB game one thought comes to mind. KCs decision to let Tyreke Hill go has to be one of the greatest mistakes in NFL history. KC is not going deep in the playoffs this year. Not enough reliable weapons for Mahomes. Kelce is starting to slip. He's on the downhill side of the peak. Pacheco is great, but their receiving corp is second rate. Meanwhile Tyreke Hill is outrunning everyone and catching monster TD catches. This proves that you can have the best QB in football and still be just an above average team without the supporting cast. WR has become the 2nd most important position in the modern NFL. We need an upgrade to play opposite of Moore. Harrison would be ideal. But Odunze or Nabors would foot the bill also.

Maybe it's the curse of the GOAT. Brady had to suffer with middling at best skill position talent most of his career. Now Mahomes will have to as well it seems. I get the instinct from a GM POV, but man you're putting a lot of pressure on the QB, as good as those guys are, to make it work.

[Dresden]

Watching the Dolphins game and then the KC v GB game one thought comes to mind. KCs decision to let Tyreke Hill go has to be one of the greatest mistakes in NFL history. KC is not going deep in the playoffs this year. Not enough reliable weapons for Mahomes. Kelce is starting to slip. He's on the downhill side of the peak. Pacheco is great, but their receiving corp is second rate. Meanwhile Tyreke Hill is outrunning everyone and catching monster TD catches. This proves that you can have the best QB in football and still be just an above average team without the supporting cast. WR has become the 2nd most important position in the modern NFL. We need an upgrade to play opposite of Moore. Harrison would be ideal. But Odunze or Nabors would foot the bill also.

Maybe it's the curse of the GOAT. Brady had to suffer with middling at best skill position talent most of his career. Now Mahomes will have to as well it seems. I get the instinct from a GM POV, but man you're putting a lot of pressure on the QB, as good as those guys are, to make it work.

In a way, it's the QB's own fault- they take up so much of the cap space there isn't enough left over. Brady always used to have a team friendly deal, and that's partly why the Pats were always so good.

[HearshotKDS]

Watching the Dolphins game and then the KC v GB game one thought comes to mind. KCs decision to let Tyreke Hill go has to be one of the greatest mistakes in NFL history. KC is not going deep in the playoffs this year. Not enough reliable weapons for Mahomes. Kelce is starting to slip. He's on the downhill side of the peak. Pacheco is great, but their receiving corp is second rate. Meanwhile Tyreke Hill is outrunning everyone and catching monster TD catches. This proves that you can have the best QB in football and still be just an above average team without the supporting cast. WR has become the 2nd most important position in the modern NFL. We need an upgrade to play opposite of Moore. Harrison would be ideal. But Odunze or Nabors would foot the bill also.

Cant be that big of a mistake if Mahomes won an MVP and a Superbowl without him.

The mistake wasnt letting Hill go, it was what they currently "replaced" him with. KC is capable of winning SBs with a WR room that doesnt have Hill as they have already shown, they just need better than the extremely disappointing group they have this year.

[fleet]

You can always trade for a really good WR.

You can never trade for a really good QB.

Get the QB first

The Packers haven’t drafted receivers in the first round as a general rule it seems. As long as you have the quarterback, and draft well in the second and third, you got it

[Dresden]

Caleb Williams has said he won't play in USC's bowl game, which makes it more likely he will declare this year.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I’d be fine with Caleb Williams at 1 and if the Bears keep dropping, one of Alt/Turner/Nabers/Latu.

I also thought Verse looked like a beast on Saturday. I wouldn’t mind them trading down from 5 to 14-16, getting a 2025 1st, and taking Verse there. Get the best talent available on defense, especially if it’s at edge.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I’d be fine with Caleb Williams at 1 and if the Bears keep dropping, one of Alt/Turner/Nabers/Latu.

I also thought Verse looked like a beast on Saturday. I wouldn’t mind them trading down from 5 to 14-16, getting a 2025 1st, and taking Verse there. Get the best talent available on defense, especially if it’s at edge.

Yeah, I think I'm leaning towards Caleb at #1 and then the best WR or DE with our pick. Ondunze definitely needs to be in the conversation.

I've been big on Penix, but I watched a few hours of film breakdown on Williams and he honestly looked a lot like Mahomes did last night. USC is just a terrible team, but Caleb was still keeping them functional. He needs to clean up some of his decisions, but that's true of any young QB.

[Dresden]

Another option for the Bears pick is, if they don't see anyone they really really want at that spot, trade down for a '24 2nd and something in '25- whatever you could get, a second, a late first, maybe a player... that way we'll have a second round pick again with which to take a center.

But hopefully there will be a WR or EDGE available.

[Dresden]

I know it's just one game, but I didn't hear Jalen Carter's name called much yesterday, and the PHI defense was so bad they went out and signed Shaq Leonard today.

[patryk7754]

If the Bears have a winning record moving forward with Fields playing like he has been (2/3 TDs a game 200-250 ypg top 10 QBR) would the people who want to move on from still feel the same way?

[nomorezorro]

"like he has been" does not cover the last three games fields has played, apparently

[Dresden]

If the Bears have a winning record moving forward with Fields playing like he has been (2/3 TDs a game 200-250 ypg top 10 QBR) would the people who want to move on from still feel the same way?

Outside of the WAS and DEN games, I haven't seen enough from Fields this year to feel confident he can be our QB going forward.

[patryk7754]

"like he has been" does not cover the last three games fields has played, apparently

Idk what you mean? its a simple question.

Since the Broncos games (excluding the game he got hurt) he's averaging 250 ypg, 2.25 TD, 68.3% completion, a rating of 112.6, and has thrown 2 ints. Including the last three games. If you want to just do the last three fulls games he's played. its 222ypg, 66.7 completion, 1.6 TDs, 105 rating and has thrown 0 ints. Obviously that doesn't paint the whole picture (good or bad).

If the Bears finish with a record of 3-2 or 4-1 with fields averaging good numbers, its a reasonable question to ask if people if they would change their mind on moving on from him.

[patryk7754]

If the Bears have a winning record moving forward with Fields playing like he has been (2/3 TDs a game 200-250 ypg top 10 QBR) would the people who want to move on from still feel the same way?

Outside of the WAS and DEN games, I haven't seen enough from Fields this year to feel confident he can be our QB going forward.

I think since the Denver game, I think he's been at least above average (with mistakes that he definitely needs to fix) but I put most of the blame on coaching and the game plan. I think the Lions game was a perfect example of that. Fields was playing a great game and then the coaches decided to be horrible again. I feel like thats been the story this season. Fields clearly has areas he needs to improve on but I think coaches are hindering his development. I'm reluctant to move on from Justin because we've seen him play at a high level when the play calling isn't absolute dogsh*t. I would like to see him under a coach that is established in playcalling like Harbough or Johnson.

[nomorezorro]

"like he has been" does not cover the last three games fields has played, apparently

Idk what you mean? its a simple question.

Since the Broncos games (excluding the game he got hurt) he's averaging 250 ypg, 2.25 TD, 68.3% completion, a rating of 112.6, and has thrown 2 ints. Including the last three games. If you want to just do the last three fulls games he's played. its 222ypg, 66.7 completion, 1.6 TDs, 105 rating and has thrown 0 ints. Obviously that doesn't paint the whole picture (good or bad).

If the Bears finish with a record of 3-2 or 4-1 with fields averaging good numbers, its a reasonable question to ask if people if they would change their mind on moving on from him.

what i meant was, in the last three games fields has played, he has not put up anything close to the imaginary statline you presented as reflective of the level he's been playing at recently, generally speaking.

the broncos and commanders games were very good performances, and given that they were two of his most recent games, there's reason to be hopeful that they are to some degree indicative of a direction fields is "trending" in. but it's also impossible to ignore the fact that they are significant outlier games in terms of fields's passing production over the course of his entire career. it's hard for me to put stock in any projections that heavily weigh these two games until he puts up at least one more game that suggests it's a level he's capable of reaching on anywhere close to a regular basis.

[patryk7754]

"like he has been" does not cover the last three games fields has played, apparently

Idk what you mean? its a simple question.

Since the Broncos games (excluding the game he got hurt) he's averaging 250 ypg, 2.25 TD, 68.3% completion, a rating of 112.6, and has thrown 2 ints. Including the last three games. If you want to just do the last three fulls games he's played. its 222ypg, 66.7 completion, 1.6 TDs, 105 rating and has thrown 0 ints. Obviously that doesn't paint the whole picture (good or bad).

If the Bears finish with a record of 3-2 or 4-1 with fields averaging good numbers, its a reasonable question to ask if people if they would change their mind on moving on from him.

what i meant was, in the last three games fields has played, he has not put up anything close to the imaginary statline you presented as reflective of the level he's been playing at recently, generally speaking.

the broncos and commanders games were very good performances, and given that they were two of his most recent games, there's reason to be hopeful that they are to some degree indicative of a direction fields is "trending" in. but it's also impossible to ignore the fact that they are significant outlier games in terms of fields's passing production over the course of his entire career. it's hard for me to put stock in any projections that heavily weigh these two games until he puts up at least one more game that suggests it's a level he's capable of reaching on anywhere close to a regular basis.

lol imaginary

[bad knees]

I thought both Penix and Nix played very well last night, and I would welcome either as the Bears QB next season. Penix has a beautiful long ball and great touch; Nix can make all the throws and can run too. I think they are both better than Caleb and Maye. CW holds the ball too long for my taste, and Maye doesn't produce - his draft rating seems to be based a lot on his size. Haven't seen Daniels yet, but I am prepared to like him too. It would be kind of dicey, but right now I would like to see the Bears trade down from 1 or 2 and take Penix or Nix in the 5 range, which is where I think they will end up. A lot of mock drafts already have them in the top 10.

Strongly disagree. Again, both Penix and Nix are several years older than Maye or Caleb. Penix has had 2 ACL's and he's got a bit of a long delivery. I wouldn't mind either of them, I just think Maye and Caleb are much more likely to be stars in the NFL.

What do you see in Caleb and Maye that makes you think they are so special? When I watch them on tape, I see some positives, but also a lot of negatives. I'd actually rather draft an older quarterback because you can see how they have progressed (rather than guessing on a younger player), and they do their learning in college, rather learning on the job in the NFL while they waste the years of their rookie contract.

[patryk7754]

I thought both Penix and Nix played very well last night, and I would welcome either as the Bears QB next season. Penix has a beautiful long ball and great touch; Nix can make all the throws and can run too. I think they are both better than Caleb and Maye. CW holds the ball too long for my taste, and Maye doesn't produce - his draft rating seems to be based a lot on his size. Haven't seen Daniels yet, but I am prepared to like him too. It would be kind of dicey, but right now I would like to see the Bears trade down from 1 or 2 and take Penix or Nix in the 5 range, which is where I think they will end up. A lot of mock drafts already have them in the top 10.

Strongly disagree. Again, both Penix and Nix are several years older than Maye or Caleb. Penix has had 2 ACL's and he's got a bit of a long delivery. I wouldn't mind either of them, I just think Maye and Caleb are much more likely to be stars in the NFL.

What do you see in Caleb and Maye that makes you think they are so special? When I watch them on tape, I see some positives, but also a lot of negatives. I'd actually rather draft an older quarterback because you can see how they have progressed (rather than guessing on a younger player), and they do their learning in college, rather learning on the job in the NFL while they waste the years of their rookie contract.

I haven't seen anything of Maye, so idk about his game. Caleb looks good but I haven't seen anything that justifies the intense hype around him. The thing that concerns me is that he runs around a lot for no reason. When the oline started falling apart, that's when he play started to decline. Jordan Palmer called him the greatest prospect ever but I'm not sure what makes him say that. How much better at QB is he than CJ Stroud? Don't get me wrong, he's clearly a great prospect but is he a better player than Fields? At least at the college level, I would take Fields and I don't think he'd be better than Fields and if he, I don't think it would be a significant difference.

Regardless of what happens, I think we will have our QB

[dice]

this week's simulated draft:

1 cards - caleb
2 bears - marvin
3 pats - maye
4 wash - bowers
5 saints (from jets) - fashanu
6 bears - nix