Around The NBA

[JonFromVA]

I can’t help but feel that Mobley is not getting the attention he deserves for the kind of season he’s been having so far.

People already jumped to the conclusion that he'd regressed and had been passed by Chet and Wemby, and maybe even Scottie.

He's also no longer ruling the contested shot statistic either. With Allen settling back in and if his recent success with his jumper is no fluke, he will start to rise again.

Chet is very clearly above Mobley in terms of impact.

Wemby isn’t but he’s not in a great spot either way, I’d rather have Wemby over Mobley for the future though.

Scottie is taking a HUGE leap this season. He looks every bit of a 2 way do it all forward with all NBA upside. If we’re looking at this moment in time, Scottie has also passed Mobley.

Taking nothing away from the other 3 who are doing great, but Mobley's impact just isn't as obvious especially with the Cavs roster struggles, but it's been there since he was a rookie. He actually leads the other 3 in On-Off at +6.2. I do believe he was negative in terms of OnCourt and On-Off early in the season, but that's been turning around as the team gets healthier and we haven't had to ask him to start at C.

If Evan was getting more blocks, scoring more points, or raining 3pters he'd be getting more attention; but I've always said the key for Evan to taking his next step was going to be subtle. He's been slowing growing in to his body and just starting to figure out when, where, and who he can use his quickness and strength against. It'll take a confluence of skills and strength that should lead to him realizing that he has something he can go to against anyone. When he can force defenses to double, his passing and vision will become a lot more interesting.

That may or may not happen from the elbow - he may need to be closer to the basket; but putting the ball in his hands at the elbow at least draws his man out of the paint. A reliable close in jumper, fade away, or hook shot would be nice, but probably won't command double teams so much as developing moves and/or power which get him to the rim.

Some believe he has to develop a 3pter, but more strength, tightening his dribble, and some more moves around the basket would do him a world of good. It's just none of that is on a schedule.

[Iwasawitness]

Chet is very clearly above Mobley in terms of impact.

Wemby isn’t but he’s not in a great spot either way, I’d rather have Wemby over Mobley for the future though.

Scottie is taking a HUGE leap this season. He looks every bit of a 2 way do it all forward with all NBA upside. If we’re looking at this moment in time, Scottie has also passed Mobley.

In what regard are we talking about with Chet having a bigger impact? Offensively yes. Chet is very clearly superior on that front and is a huge reason OKC is as good as they are in that department. But defensively? He doesn't have the same defensive impact Mobley does. Does that change in the future? I don't really know because it's too early to say. Chet does impress me greatly at that end, but he's somehow even worse off from a build standpoint than Mobley is. At least Mobley can bang with bigger players. Chet can't really do that. His frame absolutely terrifies me and I really hope he can build great amounts of muscle if he's going to continue to be their center.

I 100% disagree with you about Barnes. A lot of people have raved about Scottie Barnes and the leap he's taken this season but honestly, it's being overblown. Does he have improved numbers? Yes. Has his shooting improved? So far, yes it absolutely has. But we have to keep in mind what's going on with the Raptors. VanVleet left the team which has opened up more shooting and playmaking opportunities for Barnes. He's very clearly their second option on offense and he's taking full advantage of that. But the sample size is still small and I want to see how he continues to do throughout the season. Mobley on the other hand is only three points per game behind him while taking four less shots per game. He still very clearly has an advantage defensively while currently averaging a double double. In the rare occasions that Mobley has been the second option, he's got a better PPG average. Hell, Barnes hasn't even topped Mobley's season high of 33 points yet. At this point, at least to me, Mobley is still very clearly the better player. People just don't really want to pay much attention to their respective situations and only want to focus on the stats.

The only part I agree with you on is Wemby. Yes, Mobley is better right now but I too fully expect Wemby to one day be the superior player, and I expect him to almost always win the DPOY battle. There will probably be a rivalry between the two on that front alone but I see Wemby coming out on top almost every time.

Here’s how I see the Chet / Mobley comparison.

Mobley is the better defender (despite all the models saying it’s Chet, I prefer the eye test), better passer out of the high post, better rebounder.

Chet is better offensively but the thing is that he’s light years ahead of Mobley on that end and that supersedes all of the other stuff. Chet is insanely efficient, can shoot from anywhere, and is a really solid ball handler. Mobley is none of those things, he’s average at best on that end. So unless he’s the greatest defensive player ever (he’s not), his impact isn’t the same as Chet.

Same things with Scottie. He’s been incredible defensively this season, his on ball has been great, super switchable, great as a weak side help defender, elite rebounder. Not to mention his offensive leap too, shooting the ball great from 3.

Until Mobley figures out how to add some offensive versatility to his game he’s just going to be limited

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

[jasonxxx102]

In what regard are we talking about with Chet having a bigger impact? Offensively yes. Chet is very clearly superior on that front and is a huge reason OKC is as good as they are in that department. But defensively? He doesn't have the same defensive impact Mobley does. Does that change in the future? I don't really know because it's too early to say. Chet does impress me greatly at that end, but he's somehow even worse off from a build standpoint than Mobley is. At least Mobley can bang with bigger players. Chet can't really do that. His frame absolutely terrifies me and I really hope he can build great amounts of muscle if he's going to continue to be their center.

I 100% disagree with you about Barnes. A lot of people have raved about Scottie Barnes and the leap he's taken this season but honestly, it's being overblown. Does he have improved numbers? Yes. Has his shooting improved? So far, yes it absolutely has. But we have to keep in mind what's going on with the Raptors. VanVleet left the team which has opened up more shooting and playmaking opportunities for Barnes. He's very clearly their second option on offense and he's taking full advantage of that. But the sample size is still small and I want to see how he continues to do throughout the season. Mobley on the other hand is only three points per game behind him while taking four less shots per game. He still very clearly has an advantage defensively while currently averaging a double double. In the rare occasions that Mobley has been the second option, he's got a better PPG average. Hell, Barnes hasn't even topped Mobley's season high of 33 points yet. At this point, at least to me, Mobley is still very clearly the better player. People just don't really want to pay much attention to their respective situations and only want to focus on the stats.

The only part I agree with you on is Wemby. Yes, Mobley is better right now but I too fully expect Wemby to one day be the superior player, and I expect him to almost always win the DPOY battle. There will probably be a rivalry between the two on that front alone but I see Wemby coming out on top almost every time.

Here’s how I see the Chet / Mobley comparison.

Mobley is the better defender (despite all the models saying it’s Chet, I prefer the eye test), better passer out of the high post, better rebounder.

Chet is better offensively but the thing is that he’s light years ahead of Mobley on that end and that supersedes all of the other stuff. Chet is insanely efficient, can shoot from anywhere, and is a really solid ball handler. Mobley is none of those things, he’s average at best on that end. So unless he’s the greatest defensive player ever (he’s not), his impact isn’t the same as Chet.

Same things with Scottie. He’s been incredible defensively this season, his on ball has been great, super switchable, great as a weak side help defender, elite rebounder. Not to mention his offensive leap too, shooting the ball great from 3.

Until Mobley figures out how to add some offensive versatility to his game he’s just going to be limited

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

My biggest gripe to start the year was his total lack of confidence in taking open middys. Which to his credit he’s definitely made an effort to take those now and he’s making them.

But let’s remember Chet is also a 3rd option and Scottie is a 2nd.

There’s basically a 0% chance Mobley could ever get to Chet level offensively he’s just too far behind.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

[Iwasawitness]

Here’s how I see the Chet / Mobley comparison.

Mobley is the better defender (despite all the models saying it’s Chet, I prefer the eye test), better passer out of the high post, better rebounder.

Chet is better offensively but the thing is that he’s light years ahead of Mobley on that end and that supersedes all of the other stuff. Chet is insanely efficient, can shoot from anywhere, and is a really solid ball handler. Mobley is none of those things, he’s average at best on that end. So unless he’s the greatest defensive player ever (he’s not), his impact isn’t the same as Chet.

Same things with Scottie. He’s been incredible defensively this season, his on ball has been great, super switchable, great as a weak side help defender, elite rebounder. Not to mention his offensive leap too, shooting the ball great from 3.

Until Mobley figures out how to add some offensive versatility to his game he’s just going to be limited

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

My biggest gripe to start the year was his total lack of confidence in taking open middys. Which to his credit he’s definitely made an effort to take those now and he’s making them.

But let’s remember Chet is also a 3rd option and Scottie is a 2nd.

There’s basically a 0% chance Mobley could ever get to Chet level offensively he’s just too far behind.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

The bolded is just completely false and devoid of any merit and isn't consistent with reality. You absolutely do not need to have a three point shot to be a top 20 player in the NBA. I can't believe I'm even entertaining such a thought.

[JujitsuFlip]

In what regard are we talking about with Chet having a bigger impact? Offensively yes. Chet is very clearly superior on that front and is a huge reason OKC is as good as they are in that department. But defensively? He doesn't have the same defensive impact Mobley does. Does that change in the future? I don't really know because it's too early to say. Chet does impress me greatly at that end, but he's somehow even worse off from a build standpoint than Mobley is. At least Mobley can bang with bigger players. Chet can't really do that. His frame absolutely terrifies me and I really hope he can build great amounts of muscle if he's going to continue to be their center.

I 100% disagree with you about Barnes. A lot of people have raved about Scottie Barnes and the leap he's taken this season but honestly, it's being overblown. Does he have improved numbers? Yes. Has his shooting improved? So far, yes it absolutely has. But we have to keep in mind what's going on with the Raptors. VanVleet left the team which has opened up more shooting and playmaking opportunities for Barnes. He's very clearly their second option on offense and he's taking full advantage of that. But the sample size is still small and I want to see how he continues to do throughout the season. Mobley on the other hand is only three points per game behind him while taking four less shots per game. He still very clearly has an advantage defensively while currently averaging a double double. In the rare occasions that Mobley has been the second option, he's got a better PPG average. Hell, Barnes hasn't even topped Mobley's season high of 33 points yet. At this point, at least to me, Mobley is still very clearly the better player. People just don't really want to pay much attention to their respective situations and only want to focus on the stats.

The only part I agree with you on is Wemby. Yes, Mobley is better right now but I too fully expect Wemby to one day be the superior player, and I expect him to almost always win the DPOY battle. There will probably be a rivalry between the two on that front alone but I see Wemby coming out on top almost every time.

Here’s how I see the Chet / Mobley comparison.

Mobley is the better defender (despite all the models saying it’s Chet, I prefer the eye test), better passer out of the high post, better rebounder.

Chet is better offensively but the thing is that he’s light years ahead of Mobley on that end and that supersedes all of the other stuff. Chet is insanely efficient, can shoot from anywhere, and is a really solid ball handler. Mobley is none of those things, he’s average at best on that end. So unless he’s the greatest defensive player ever (he’s not), his impact isn’t the same as Chet.

Same things with Scottie. He’s been incredible defensively this season, his on ball has been great, super switchable, great as a weak side help defender, elite rebounder. Not to mention his offensive leap too, shooting the ball great from 3.

Until Mobley figures out how to add some offensive versatility to his game he’s just going to be limited

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

In what way is his midrange game better, in your estimation?

Looks to be having career lows or near career lows from quite a few spots.

[Iwasawitness]

Here’s how I see the Chet / Mobley comparison.

Mobley is the better defender (despite all the models saying it’s Chet, I prefer the eye test), better passer out of the high post, better rebounder.

Chet is better offensively but the thing is that he’s light years ahead of Mobley on that end and that supersedes all of the other stuff. Chet is insanely efficient, can shoot from anywhere, and is a really solid ball handler. Mobley is none of those things, he’s average at best on that end. So unless he’s the greatest defensive player ever (he’s not), his impact isn’t the same as Chet.

Same things with Scottie. He’s been incredible defensively this season, his on ball has been great, super switchable, great as a weak side help defender, elite rebounder. Not to mention his offensive leap too, shooting the ball great from 3.

Until Mobley figures out how to add some offensive versatility to his game he’s just going to be limited

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

In what way is his midrange game better, in your estimation?

Looks to be having career lows or near career lows from quite a few spots.

Looks to me like the 6-10 range he’s improved in. Everything else is what I’d expect except for near the basket… didn’t know he was shooting worse from there.

[JonFromVA]

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

In what way is his midrange game better, in your estimation?

Looks to be having career lows or near career lows from quite a few spots.

Looks to me like the 6-10 range he’s improved in. Everything else is what I’d expect except for near the basket… didn’t know he was shooting worse from there.

Unfortunately JF cut off the attempts or otherwise we'd see that 30% of Evan's jumpers are in the 3-10 range, just 10% in the 10-16 range. So, that 35.7% in the 3-10 range is pretty painful.

Evan had a really good shooting game recently and that's going to raise hopes he's feeling more confident, but he has to get it done game by game. For instance against Detroit, his only make away from the rim was a 13fter near the free throw line. He missed 3 shots in the 4 to 5ft range.

Jarrett Allen, otoh, is shooting 60% on his shots in the 3-10 range after shooting a career high 51.6% last season.

[jasonxxx102]

I mean as others have pointed out, his mid range game is better and he’s even hitting free throws at a better rate. I would say he’s definitely adding versatility… people just seem to forget that he’s the third option on offense so of course he’s not going to have eye popping offensive numbers.

My biggest gripe to start the year was his total lack of confidence in taking open middys. Which to his credit he’s definitely made an effort to take those now and he’s making them.

But let’s remember Chet is also a 3rd option and Scottie is a 2nd.

There’s basically a 0% chance Mobley could ever get to Chet level offensively he’s just too far behind.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

The bolded is just completely false and devoid of any merit and isn't consistent with reality. You absolutely do not need to have a three point shot to be a top 20 player in the NBA. I can't believe I'm even entertaining such a thought.

I’ve noticed that quite often you just say stuff with such certainty without putting any thought into it.

We can have a thought experiment. Make a list of every single top 20 player in the last decade who had less than 1 3PA/gm. We can start there.

[jasonxxx102]

If you can’t make a list I’ll just assume you’ve realized how undefendable your position is and acknowledged that what I said was categorically true

[JujitsuFlip]

In what way is his midrange game better, in your estimation?

Looks to be having career lows or near career lows from quite a few spots.

Looks to me like the 6-10 range he’s improved in. Everything else is what I’d expect except for near the basket… didn’t know he was shooting worse from there.

Unfortunately JF cut off the attempts or otherwise we'd see that 30% of Evan's jumpers are in the 3-10 range, just 10% in the 10-16 range. So, that 35.7% in the 3-10 range is pretty painful.

Evan had a really good shooting game recently and that's going to raise hopes he's feeling more confident, but he has to get it done game by game. For instance against Detroit, his only make away from the rim was a 13fter near the free throw line. He missed 3 shots in the 4 to 5ft range.

Jarrett Allen, otoh, is shooting 60% on his shots in the 3-10 range after shooting a career high 51.6% last season.

My bad man, wasn't intentional, i can only fit so much in BB ref's lil slider.

[Iwasawitness]

My biggest gripe to start the year was his total lack of confidence in taking open middys. Which to his credit he’s definitely made an effort to take those now and he’s making them.

But let’s remember Chet is also a 3rd option and Scottie is a 2nd.

There’s basically a 0% chance Mobley could ever get to Chet level offensively he’s just too far behind.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

The bolded is just completely false and devoid of any merit and isn't consistent with reality. You absolutely do not need to have a three point shot to be a top 20 player in the NBA. I can't believe I'm even entertaining such a thought.

I’ve noticed that quite often you just say stuff with such certainty without putting any thought into it.

We can have a thought experiment. Make a list of every single top 20 player in the last decade who had less than 1 3PA/gm. We can start there.

I don't need to put any thought to it because it's a ludicrous statement from you. You don't need to be a three point shooter to be a top 20 player in the NBA. That concept is dumb.

In regards to your question... this doesn't apply to your point because Evan Mobley averaged more than one three point attempt per game last season. You're going to have to either expand your three attempts or admit you're wrong. But at that point, if you're doing the former, then you end up hurting your own statement.

If you can’t make a list I’ll just assume you’ve realized how undefendable your position is and acknowledged that what I said was categorically true

I don't need to make a list. Your criteria doesn't apply to Mobley so your argument is both contradicted and still wrong. Ironic that you accuse me of not thinking things through... and the proceed to not think your post through.

[jasonxxx102]

The bolded is just completely false and devoid of any merit and isn't consistent with reality. You absolutely do not need to have a three point shot to be a top 20 player in the NBA. I can't believe I'm even entertaining such a thought.

I’ve noticed that quite often you just say stuff with such certainty without putting any thought into it.

We can have a thought experiment. Make a list of every single top 20 player in the last decade who had less than 1 3PA/gm. We can start there.

I don't need to put any thought to it because it's a ludicrous statement from you. You don't need to be a three point shooter to be a top 20 player in the NBA. That concept is dumb.

In regards to your question... this doesn't apply to your point because Evan Mobley averaged more than one three point attempt per game last season. You're going to have to either expand your three attempts or admit you're wrong. But at that point, if you're doing the former, then you end up hurting your own statement.

Because when you make the list you already know what it’s gonna show

Furthermore, you’re moving the goalposts now. Never did I say you cannot be a top 20 player without a 3pt shot.

Fine, expand it to 1.5 or less then if that makes you feel better. It’s not gonna change the players you find regardless.

[Iwasawitness]

I’ve noticed that quite often you just say stuff with such certainty without putting any thought into it.

We can have a thought experiment. Make a list of every single top 20 player in the last decade who had less than 1 3PA/gm. We can start there.

I don't need to put any thought to it because it's a ludicrous statement from you. You don't need to be a three point shooter to be a top 20 player in the NBA. That concept is dumb.

In regards to your question... this doesn't apply to your point because Evan Mobley averaged more than one three point attempt per game last season. You're going to have to either expand your three attempts or admit you're wrong. But at that point, if you're doing the former, then you end up hurting your own statement.

Because when you make the list you already know what it’s gonna show

Furthermore, you’re moving the goalposts now. Never did I say you cannot be a top 20 player without a 3pt shot.

Fine, expand it to 1.5 or less then if that makes you feel better. It’s not gonna change the players you find regardless.

Yeah, you absolutely did.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

This is why I don't take you seriously. Nothing you say ever makes any sense.

I'm not going to entertain your idiotic concept. Shooting 1.5 threes per game doesn't suddenly mean you're no longer a role player and elevate you into the next status of elite, especially if you're hitting said threes at such a low rate. Think before you post or don't post at all.

Like, according to your logic, Giannis would just be an elite role player and no longer top 15-20 if he stopped attempting three 3 pointers per game and just shot strictly inside the line. I'm not dignifying something so devoid of logic.

[toooskies]

If you can’t make a list I’ll just assume you’ve realized how undefendable your position is and acknowledged that what I said was categorically true

Here's a quick list from just this year going by ESPN's top 20 players: Giannis, AD, Bam.

[jasonxxx102]

I don't need to put any thought to it because it's a ludicrous statement from you. You don't need to be a three point shooter to be a top 20 player in the NBA. That concept is dumb.

In regards to your question... this doesn't apply to your point because Evan Mobley averaged more than one three point attempt per game last season. You're going to have to either expand your three attempts or admit you're wrong. But at that point, if you're doing the former, then you end up hurting your own statement.

Because when you make the list you already know what it’s gonna show

Furthermore, you’re moving the goalposts now. Never did I say you cannot be a top 20 player without a 3pt shot.

Fine, expand it to 1.5 or less then if that makes you feel better. It’s not gonna change the players you find regardless.

Yeah, you absolutely did.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

This is why I don't take you seriously. Nothing you say ever makes any sense.

I'm not going to entertain your idiotic concept. Shooting 1.5 threes per game doesn't suddenly mean you're no longer a role player and elevate you into the next status of elite, especially if you're hitting said threes at such a low rate. Think before you post or don't post at all.

Like, according to your logic, Giannis would just be an elite role player and no longer top 15-20 if he stopped attempting three 3 pointers per game and just shot strictly inside the line. I'm not dignifying something so devoid of logic.

So you can’t make a list, got it


You can’t possibly defend your position so instead you attack me personally.

Here’s the list for you and criteria, unless you’re going to choose your own (you haven’t yet so I picked something for you).

The approximate DPM (Darko plus minus, widely recognized as the best all in one metric in the NBA and free) of the top20 players in any season is about 3. I sorted by 3PA/75.

The list:

Gobert - role player
Tim Duncan - we can only hope
Anthony Davis - god tier defense (and only did it once)
Wade - not a good comparison
Lamarcus Aldridge - role player
Blake Griffin - Role player

And by the way Rudy was the only one post 2016 and we know how the game has evolved since then.

Even Bam, who didn’t make my search is a role player.


So the vast majority of top 20 players at least took 2, 3s a game. It’s just objective fact

Maybe instead of hurling nothing but personal insults, reflect on why you’re so dug in on a position that’s just wrong.

[jasonxxx102]

We’re all those personal insults really worth it when you ended up just being wrong in the end anyways?

Even if you’re 100% certain on something it’s not a great look if you’re acting like a child.

[JonFromVA]

We’re all those personal insults really worth it when you ended up just being wrong in the end anyways?

Even if you’re 100% certain on something it’s not a great look if you’re acting like a child.

Didn't you just prove him right by providing the list?

I also think it's pretty dubious to call Bam a "role player", and personally I'm not sure what Giannis bricking a bunch of 3's does for Milwaukee's offense. AD cutting back on his 3's sure looks like a good idea to me too.

Evan is fine, Jarrett is fine ... but on the floor at the same time it complicates our offense. Shouldn't matter as long as the net rating is strong, but makes some things other teams do easily harder for us.

[jasonxxx102]

We’re all those personal insults really worth it when you ended up just being wrong in the end anyways?

Even if you’re 100% certain on something it’s not a great look if you’re acting like a child.

Didn't you just prove him right by providing the list?

I also think it's pretty dubious to call Bam a "role player", and personally I'm not sure what Giannis bricking a bunch of 3's does for Milwaukee's offense. AD cutting back on his 3's sure looks like a good idea to me too.

Evan is fine, Jarrett is fine ... but on the floor at the same time it complicates our offense. Shouldn't matter as long as the net rating is strong, but makes some things other teams do easily harder for us.

Bam is absolutely a role player, he’s not even the best player on his team.

2 out of how many players over the last 10 had top 20 seasons without shooting 3s. Not a single top10 player on that list besides Wade who again is not a good comparison.

It’s not some controversial hot take to say all the best players in the league shoot 3s. Giannis is the only guy who you’d describe as “can’t shoot” but he’s got so much else to offer.

I’m just out here laying out the facts and I guess that hurts the ego of some being wrong. Stats don’t lie. People only resort to ad hominem when they know they’re wrong but are too deep to admit it. Just get louder and angrier until the other person goes away is the strategy and then disappear back into the shadows

If Mobley never develops a 3 he will be an elite role player. It’s ok to say that.

[JonFromVA]

We’re all those personal insults really worth it when you ended up just being wrong in the end anyways?

Even if you’re 100% certain on something it’s not a great look if you’re acting like a child.

Didn't you just prove him right by providing the list?

I also think it's pretty dubious to call Bam a "role player", and personally I'm not sure what Giannis bricking a bunch of 3's does for Milwaukee's offense. AD cutting back on his 3's sure looks like a good idea to me too.

Evan is fine, Jarrett is fine ... but on the floor at the same time it complicates our offense. Shouldn't matter as long as the net rating is strong, but makes some things other teams do easily harder for us.

Bam is absolutely a role player, he’s not even the best player on his team.

2 out of how many players over the last 10 had top 20 seasons without shooting 3s. Not a single top10 player on that list besides Wade who again is not a good comparison.

It’s not some controversial hot take to say all the best players in the league shoot 3s. Giannis is the only guy who you’d describe as “can’t shoot” but he’s got so much else to offer.

I’m just out here laying out the facts and I guess that hurts the ego of some being wrong. Stats don’t lie. People only resort to ad hominem when they know they’re wrong but are too deep to admit it. Just get louder and angrier until the other person goes away is the strategy and then disappear back into the shadows

If Mobley never develops a 3 he will be an elite role player. It’s ok to say that.

If you applied your facts in a logical and consistent manner, I'd have to agree with you; but you seem to just flip the script to keep arguing what you want to argue and inviting hostile replies.

Here's one fact I'm 100% confident in: Evan Mobley's future is not going to be determined by the past performance of any other player in the league. In other words, this whole train of thought was never heading anywhere.

[Iwasawitness]

Because when you make the list you already know what it’s gonna show

Furthermore, you’re moving the goalposts now. Never did I say you cannot be a top 20 player without a 3pt shot.

Fine, expand it to 1.5 or less then if that makes you feel better. It’s not gonna change the players you find regardless.

Yeah, you absolutely did.

The other thing is that he absolutely needs to be able to shoot 3s, that’s a non negotiable if you’re going to be a top10-15 probably even top20 player. To say he doesn’t need to ever shoot 3s is accepting him being a really good / elite role player

This is why I don't take you seriously. Nothing you say ever makes any sense.

I'm not going to entertain your idiotic concept. Shooting 1.5 threes per game doesn't suddenly mean you're no longer a role player and elevate you into the next status of elite, especially if you're hitting said threes at such a low rate. Think before you post or don't post at all.

Like, according to your logic, Giannis would just be an elite role player and no longer top 15-20 if he stopped attempting three 3 pointers per game and just shot strictly inside the line. I'm not dignifying something so devoid of logic.

So you can’t make a list, got it


You can’t possibly defend your position so instead you attack me personally.

Here’s the list for you and criteria, unless you’re going to choose your own (you haven’t yet so I picked something for you).

The approximate DPM (Darko plus minus, widely recognized as the best all in one metric in the NBA and free) of the top20 players in any season is about 3. I sorted by 3PA/75.

The list:

Gobert - role player
Tim Duncan - we can only hope
Anthony Davis - god tier defense (and only did it once)
Wade - not a good comparison
Lamarcus Aldridge - role player
Blake Griffin - Role player

And by the way Rudy was the only one post 2016 and we know how the game has evolved since then.

Even Bam, who didn’t make my search is a role player.


So the vast majority of top 20 players at least took 2, 3s a game. It’s just objective fact

Maybe instead of hurling nothing but personal insults, reflect on why you’re so dug in on a position that’s just wrong.

Wait a minute, you just provided me with a list. You did the work for me.

So how am I wrong

There's a reason I didn't make a list in the first place and you doing it for me proves why: because your point is idiotic and doesn't deserve merit.

We’re all those personal insults really worth it when you ended up just being wrong in the end anyways?

Even if you’re 100% certain on something it’s not a great look if you’re acting like a child.

First off, I didn't provide a single personal insult. I made it perfectly clear that I was attacking your moronic premise.

Second, I wasn't wrong. You proved that for me by giving me a list. Again, think next time before you post. It's not hard.