Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[Neeva]

Nembhard is much more valuable that that.

Just taking Nembhard over Wendell would have solved our backup pg issues that we knew we had even back in that draft

[shrink]

I am a little confused. Trading Kyle creates a trade exception. To my knowledge you cannot sign a free agent or resign a vet minimum with a trade exception, am I wrong?

This was changed in the most recent CBA

[Neeva]

IMO Pacers need help at forward while wolves need help at backup pg.

Slowmo for Mcconnell?
Feels like we need more back. Kyle would start for them IMO

So Anderson, Milton, and Moore Jr for McConnell and Nesmith.

[NebWolvesFan]

I would much rather have Tyus than McConnell. Tyus is younger, has more offensive game and their defensive numbers aren't that different. Tyus is definitely getting traded by Washington. He's a free agent after this year and there's no way he's coming back to DC.

A Tyus for Kyle/Shake deal works. Minnesota may need to add some assets, but I hope TC tries to bring Tyus home.

[winforlose]

I am a little confused. Trading Kyle creates a trade exception. To my knowledge you cannot sign a free agent or resign a vet minimum with a trade exception, am I wrong?

This was changed in the most recent CBA

So instead of trading Kyle for Morris you want to try and sign Morris as a buyout (and presumably sign him for 3 years to regain bird rights,) and then trade Kyle separately? Who takes Kyle and is the late pick a first or second?

[Neeva]

I would much rather have Tyus than McConnell. Tyus is younger, has more offensive game and their defensive numbers aren't that different. Tyus is definitely getting traded by Washington. He's a free agent after this year and there's no way he's coming back to DC.

A Tyus for Kyle/Shake deal works. Minnesota may need to add some assets, but I hope TC tries to bring Tyus home.

Poor Slowmo being shipped to that dumpster fire but what assets would it take do you think? I don’t really trust Tyus in playoffs going by his past playoff play and he is a starting point guard now and I am afraid the Wolves won’t be able to afford what he will want going forward while Mcconnell would probably sign for cheaper. I do want Conley back next season.

Maybe get a third team to pay the younger assets the Wizards will be looking for ? Something like
Dallas gets slowmo, milton
Wizards get Moore Jr, Josh Green and Prosper/Hardy, dallas second

Wolves get Tyus?

I hate helping make Dallas a little better though

[NebWolvesFan]

I would much rather have Tyus than McConnell. Tyus is younger, has more offensive game and their defensive numbers aren't that different. Tyus is definitely getting traded by Washington. He's a free agent after this year and there's no way he's coming back to DC.

A Tyus for Kyle/Shake deal works. Minnesota may need to add some assets, but I hope TC tries to bring Tyus home.

Poor Slowmo being shipped to that dumpster fire but what assets would it take do you think? I don’t really trust Tyus in playoffs going by his past playoff play and he is a starting point guard now and I am afraid the Wolves won’t be able to afford what he will want going forward while Mcconnell would probably sign for cheaper. I do want Conley back next season.

Maybe get a third team to pay the younger assets the Wizards will be looking for ? Something like
Dallas gets slowmo, milton
Wizards get Moore Jr, Josh Green and Prosper/Hardy, dallas second

Wolves get Tyus?

I hate helping make Dallas a little better though

They could always buy out Anderson, which would allow him to sign elsewhere. I doubt Moore Jr. would interest anyone. The Wolves would probably have to add Minott and its second this year. Good players require real assets. With Ant making All-NBA this year and the team finding success, Minnesota is definitely going over the second apron. I could see the owners bringing Tyus back. He will be extremely popular and all Finch wants from his PG is a steady hand.

[Domejandro]

I am a little confused. Trading Kyle creates a trade exception. To my knowledge you cannot sign a free agent or resign a vet minimum with a trade exception, am I wrong?

This was changed in the most recent CBA

So instead of trading Kyle for Morris you want to try and sign Morris as a buyout (and presumably sign him for 3 years to regain bird rights,) and then trade Kyle separately? Who takes Kyle and is the late pick a first or second?

The scenario was if Monte Morris was waived, if Minnesota could sign him as a functional stop-gap backup Point-Guard and stay under the Luxury-Tax. Unless I am totally missing something, I don’t think shrink is advocating trading Kyle Anderson at all. The idea would using D’Angelo Russell’s TPE (which expires well before Monte Morris would be waived) to outbid other teams.


To put a note in, though, people should pump the brakes on just expecting Monte Morris to be available on the waiver wire. That doesn’t make sense for Detroit at all.

[shrink]

I am a little confused. Trading Kyle creates a trade exception. To my knowledge you cannot sign a free agent or resign a vet minimum with a trade exception, am I wrong?

This was changed in the most recent CBA

So instead of trading Kyle for Morris you want to try and sign Morris as a buyout (and presumably sign him for 3 years to regain bird rights,) and then trade Kyle separately? Who takes Kyle and is the late pick a first or second?

Yes, to create more cap space this year.

Anderson gets mentioned often on the Trade Board, often for a late first, but perhaps we’d want a cheaper player. But SloMo is useful for a lot of teams, and has a bit of trade value for a contender - which we are.

For the record, I don’t want to trade Kyle Anderson - at least until later when I’m comfortable we can be this good without him. I’m reluctant to mess with our team chemistry. I’m just presenting a way that it could be done legally that most benefits the Wolves and their tight financial constraints.

Finally, I don’t feel the need to sign Morris to a three year deal to get Bird rights for his next contract. Extensions or team options are fine.

[shrink]

To put a note in, though, people should pump the brakes on just expecting Monte Morris to be available on the waiver wire. That doesn’t make sense for Detroit at all.

Well said. Remember DET may be rebuilding, but a vet PG that can put young players in the right places is valuable to their development. They could save some money by waiving him, and earn a little good will showing future players that their front office helps guys with their careers, but that isn’t DET’s best, or only, play here.

[twolves31]

This was changed in the most recent CBA

So instead of trading Kyle for Morris you want to try and sign Morris as a buyout (and presumably sign him for 3 years to regain bird rights,) and then trade Kyle separately? Who takes Kyle and is the late pick a first or second?

The scenario was if Monte Morris was waived, if Minnesota could sign him as a functional stop-gap backup Point-Guard and stay under the Luxury-Tax. Unless I am totally missing something, I don’t think shrink is advocating trading Kyle Anderson at all. The idea would using D’Angelo Russell’s TPE (which expires well before Monte Morris would be waived) to outbid other teams.


To put a note in, though, people should pump the brakes on just expecting Monte Morris to be available on the waiver wire. That doesn’t make sense for Detroit at all.

Morris was getting ppr injections a few weeks ago and is out at least another month or two. There's a chance he doesn't come back this season, and if he does not a lot of teams are going to be willing to trade for him with the fear he won't be able to play in which case I believe Detroit will waive him. We've seen far better players than Morris get waived after not getting trade interest.

[shrink]

As a reminder to anyone who’s browsing through and may not know, Traded Player Exceptions expire one year after they are created. DLo’s was at the trade deadline, so we have until then to use it before it disappears. Most likely we don’t use it at all.

I should also mention that it doesn’t take any exception to pick up a player for the vet min. If we wanted to offer more, we could use the DLo exception. It’s possible an unhealthy Morris could get waived, and we’d pick him up hoping he is gets better for the stretch run and playoffs.

[shangrila]

Minnesota absolutely will not risk going into the Luxury-Tax this year, that would nuke the team's ability to dip into the Luxury-Tax in future years.

They have just over $800k to play with, it is what it is.

I'd be disappointed if they thought like this.

A lot can change during the season but as of right now this is the best start in franchise history and this might end up being the best season/team we've ever had, with no guarantees that it will carry over. Conley might leave, retire or otherwise decline. Anderson might move on. Players might get injured. Age might start catching up to Rudy.

Prioritising the future over now is what led to the last 2 decades of terrible basketball. And honestly, if ownership isn't willing to pay the tax for this team then when will they be?

[winforlose]

Minnesota absolutely will not risk going into the Luxury-Tax this year, that would nuke the team's ability to dip into the Luxury-Tax in future years.

They have just over $800k to play with, it is what it is.

I'd be disappointed if they thought like this.

A lot can change during the season but as of right now this is the best start in franchise history and this might end up being the best season/team we've ever had, with no guarantees that it will carry over. Conley might leave, retire or otherwise decline. Anderson might move on. Players might get injured. Age might start catching up to Rudy.

Prioritising the future over now is what led to the last 2 decades of terrible basketball. And honestly, if ownership isn't willing to pay the tax for this team then when will they be?

What you are missing is the repeater tax. Say the owners decide this team is good enough to compete for 3 years. Year 3 might cost an extra 100 million because we went 2 million over in year 1 (this year.) There is a strong incentive to stay under, and only go over if injury or meltdown happens between now and the deadline.

It is also worth noting the owners might not have deep enough pockets to finance a 193 million tax bill like the Warriors are paying this year. We are not a big market or a big market state.

[shangrila]

Minnesota absolutely will not risk going into the Luxury-Tax this year, that would nuke the team's ability to dip into the Luxury-Tax in future years.

They have just over $800k to play with, it is what it is.

I'd be disappointed if they thought like this.

A lot can change during the season but as of right now this is the best start in franchise history and this might end up being the best season/team we've ever had, with no guarantees that it will carry over. Conley might leave, retire or otherwise decline. Anderson might move on. Players might get injured. Age might start catching up to Rudy.

Prioritising the future over now is what led to the last 2 decades of terrible basketball. And honestly, if ownership isn't willing to pay the tax for this team then when will they be?

What you are missing is the repeater tax. Say the owners decide this team is good enough to compete for 3 years. Year 3 might cost an extra 100 million because we went 2 million over in year 1 (this year.) There is a strong incentive to stay under, and only go over if injury or meltdown happens between now and the deadline.

It is also worth noting the owners might not have deep enough pockets to finance a 193 million tax bill like the Warriors are paying this year. We are not a big market or a big market state.

I'm well aware of the repeater tax. You missed my point.

We might not have a team worth paying the tax for in 3 years time. We might never have a team this good again, actually. Prioritising a hypothetical future over a very real present is what's kept this team at the bottom of the barrel for decades.

It would be so disappointing for that mentality to continue now that we're finally good.

[Baseline81]

I'm well aware of the repeater tax. You missed my point.

We might not have a team worth paying the tax for in 3 years time. We might never have a team this good again, actually. Prioritising a hypothetical future over a very real present is what's kept this team at the bottom of the barrel for decades.

It would be so disappointing for that mentality to continue now that we're finally good.

Exactly.

Once the trade for Gobert happened, the Wolves pushed all their proverbial chips in.

The phrase of "In for a penny, in for a pound" come to mind...

[winforlose]

I'm well aware of the repeater tax. You missed my point.

We might not have a team worth paying the tax for in 3 years time. We might never have a team this good again, actually. Prioritising a hypothetical future over a very real present is what's kept this team at the bottom of the barrel for decades.

It would be so disappointing for that mentality to continue now that we're finally good.

Exactly.

Once the trade for Gobert happened, the Wolves pushed all their proverbial chips in.

The phrase of "In for a penny, in for a pound" come to mind...

I do understand both of your positions. That said, the reality of the situation is the owners care more about profit than winning. These are not longtime Minnesota guys or fans. These are two guys who pooled their money and experience to buy a profitable investment with cool perks. Even if they have an extra hundred million to spend, they will want return on the investment. Keeping the team good longer is how they make that return. It is how they get better corporate sponsorships, national tv games, better merch sales, and can keep ticket and concession prices high. It is how they get playoff ticket sales and playoff tv money. Our chips are definitely all in, but not just on this year, on the next year and year after as well (The Rudy contract.) We have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball. Mike is aging out, and Rudy will start to reach his natural decline in 2 years, but that doesn’t mean we cannot 3 peat if we make the right moves now. If you lack faith in Finch, in TC, and in our big 5 (all starters but Conley, then add Naz,) then by all means shorten the window to increase our odds this year. But if you believe in the above people, make the changes you can afford and let’s go hang some banners.

[twolves31]

Did the new cba start this season or does it start next season? Does anyone know if there is still a repeater tax in the new deal? I see there is a first and second apron with the first apron being set at 7 million over the luxury tax and the second apron being 17.5 million over the luxury tax line. It sounds like the penalties for being a bit over the luxury tax are nowhere near as punitive. If there is still the repeater tax in there, does it start when you over the luxury tax or when you are in the 1st apron 7 million above the luxury tax?

[KGdaBom]

I would much rather have Tyus than McConnell. Tyus is younger, has more offensive game and their defensive numbers aren't that different. Tyus is definitely getting traded by Washington. He's a free agent after this year and there's no way he's coming back to DC.

A Tyus for Kyle/Shake deal works. Minnesota may need to add some assets, but I hope TC tries to bring Tyus home.

I don't think Tyus has more offensive game than TJ. McConnell puts up massive numbers for Indy every time that Haliburton sits. I think they like having him despite barely using him when Hali is healthy.

[winforlose]

I would much rather have Tyus than McConnell. Tyus is younger, has more offensive game and their defensive numbers aren't that different. Tyus is definitely getting traded by Washington. He's a free agent after this year and there's no way he's coming back to DC.

A Tyus for Kyle/Shake deal works. Minnesota may need to add some assets, but I hope TC tries to bring Tyus home.

I don't think Tyus has more offensive game than TJ. McConnell puts up massive numbers for Indy every time that Haliburton sits. I think they like having him despite barely using him when Hali is healthy.

I just checked to confirm, TJ has never had a year where he shot an average of more than one 3 per game. Tyus has shot just under 3 in 21-22, around 4 in 22-23, and just over 33 so far this season. Floor spacing to go along with facilitating is why guys like Mike can play so well with Rudy. If JMAC could hit a decent clip of deep shots from multiple positions, then he would be a better long term prospect. Ultimately I think Tyus is better than both JMAC and TJ and hopefully with his love for the state a long term Wolf during the Ant and Jaden window. Don’t forget, continuity has a lot of value, especially at the PG.