NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Wolfgang630]

Embiid will stay high because they got the easiest schedule for December. 8 games they should win. Embiid will probably sit the game against Minnesota again.

[iggymcfrack]

More like:

1. Jokic

(Massive gap)

2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Embiid

More like:

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
(massive gap)

3. Shai
4. Haliburton
5. Giannis
6. Luka

(smaller gap)

7. Ant-man
8. Tatum
9. Booker/KD
10. Steph

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr

Has Giannis had a nice bounce back from his rough start? Sure. But for the season as a whole, he has his lowest BPM since 2017/18 and his worst on/off since 2014/15. He’s played like a top MVP candidate for half the season so far, but that’s not enough to get you better than 5th at best the way this season’s been going. Should be:

1. Jokic

(gap)

2. Embiid
(tie) SGA

4. Haliburton

(gap)

5. LeBron

6. Luka
(tie) Giannis

8. Curry
(tie) Durant

[eyeatoma]

Embiid will stay high because they got the easiest schedule for December. 8 games they should win. Embiid will probably sit the game against Minnesota again.

Bro, you're the one who keeps pushing this narrative. He was sick, he caught it from teammates who were sick before. Maxey got sick after and also missed a game. Just stop with these reddit, clickbait style posts.

These are the types of posts that make this thread toxic 100%.

Also the idea that Embiid ducks Gobert is complete BS. He had 39 points against him in Minnesota last year, where the sixers beat the same team without Mike Conley by 23 points.

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[Packbuckman]

More like:

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
(massive gap)

3. Shai
4. Haliburton
5. Giannis
6. Luka

(smaller gap)

7. Ant-man
8. Tatum
9. Booker/KD
10. Steph

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr

Has Giannis had a nice bounce back from his rough start? Sure. But for the season as a whole, he has his lowest BPM since 2017/18 and his worst on/off since 2014/15. He’s played like a top MVP candidate for half the season so far, but that’s not enough to get you better than 5th at best the way this season’s been going. Should be:

1. Jokic

(gap)

2. Embiid
(tie) SGA

4. Haliburton

(gap)

5. LeBron

6. Luka
(tie) Giannis

8. Curry
(tie) Durant

Giannis has had more than a nice bounce back his efficiency is off the charts the league is lucky just like with Shaq his free throw percentage is at 64% and even that is on the rise. Like I said no one is playing better right now.

[Exp0sed]

Embiid will stay high because they got the easiest schedule for December. 8 games they should win. Embiid will probably sit the game against Minnesota again.

Bro, you're the one who keeps pushing this narrative. He was sick, he caught it from teammates who were sick before. Maxey got sick after and also missed a game. Just stop with these reddit, clickbait style posts.

These are the types of posts that make this thread toxic 100%.

Also the idea that Embiid ducks Gobert is complete BS. He had 39 points against him in Minnesota last year, where the sixers beat the same team without Mike Conley by 23 points.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

the idea isn't that he ducks Gobert. the idea is that he regurlaly and intentionally sits out a substnatial proportion of the toughest games, in a way that no superstar past of present has ever done

ofc he's not scared to play against Gobert (no1 is) and ofc he played against him from time to time (like the game you referenced to last season, when the Wolves sucked and were without KAT, btw they were hardly "the same team without Conley" as Conley played in that game and KAT didn't).

how do you explain Embiid having such a huge discrepency, home and away vs. the tougher matchups?
he was 6-1 home and away against Davis, are u gonna strawman that one too and nitpick the one game he played in L.A vs. Davis his entire career as "proof" he's not ducking Davis? haha

the evidence speaks for itself:

Read on Twitter

for his entire career Embiid has played 228 rs home games and only 182 rs games away.
for those keeping score at home that's 56% of his career games played at home, without even accounting for SOS (if we do account for it, the discrepency gets worse)

it's funny how he gets "sick" and "injured" more often when he needs to play away from Philly, what a coincidence!
it's a real miracle he's always healthy to play the Wizards and other bottom feeders with no Center at home. how convienient!

just for reference here's how Jokic career home\away splits look like:
current season - 9 home \ 11 away
2023 - 35 \ 34
2022 - 36 \ 38
2021 - 36 \ 36
2020 - 37 \ 36
2019 - 40 \ 40
2018 - 40 \ 35
2017 - 37 \ 36
rookie season - 41 \ 39

total - 302 \ 294 = 50.6% home games
that's how it supposed to look, when you don't duck and pick and choose your opponents

but sure, him ducking is "BS"

[eyeatoma]

Embiid will stay high because they got the easiest schedule for December. 8 games they should win. Embiid will probably sit the game against Minnesota again.

Bro, you're the one who keeps pushing this narrative. He was sick, he caught it from teammates who were sick before. Maxey got sick after and also missed a game. Just stop with these reddit, clickbait style posts.

These are the types of posts that make this thread toxic 100%.

Also the idea that Embiid ducks Gobert is complete BS. He had 39 points against him in Minnesota last year, where the sixers beat the same team without Mike Conley by 23 points.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

the idea isn't that he ducks Gobert. the idea is that he regurlaly and intentionally sits out a substnatial proportion of the toughest games, in a way that no superstar past of present has ever done

ofc he's not scared to play against Gobert (no1 is) and ofc he played against him from time to time (like the game you referenced to last season, when the Wolves sucked and were without KAT, btw they were hardly "the same team without Conley" as Conley played in that game and KAT didn't).

how do you explain Embiid having such a huge discrepency, home and away vs. the tougher matchups?
he was 6-1 home and away against Davis, are u gonna strawman that one too and nitpick the one game he played in L.A vs. Davis his entire career as "proof" he's not ducking Davis? haha

the evidence speaks for itself:

Read on Twitter

for his entire career Embiid has played 228 rs home games and only 182 rs games away.
for those keeping score at home that's 56% of his career games played at home, without even accounting for SOS (if we do account for it, the discrepency gets worse)

it's funny how he gets "sick" and "injured" more often when he needs to play away from Philly, what a coincidence!
it's a real miracle he's always healthy to play the Wizards and other bottom feeders with no Center at home. how convienient!

just for reference here's how Jokic career home\away splits look like:
current season - 9 home \ 11 away
2023 - 35 \ 34
2022 - 36 \ 38
2021 - 36 \ 36
2020 - 37 \ 36
2019 - 40 \ 40
2018 - 40 \ 35
2017 - 37 \ 36
rookie season - 41 \ 39

total - 302 \ 294 = 50.6% home games
that's how it supposed to look, when you don't duck and pick and choose your opponents

but sure, him ducking is "BS"

He is one of the most load managed stars in the league. The Sixers pick travel days and back to backs to rest him.

There's not much else to it. If you were a sixers fan you'd only this. This decision is made by the medical staff. You can read articles about their load management style with him.


The numbers are also skewed because he was load managed a lot more early in his career, last 2 years it's been reduced significantly. This was when load managing was the new fad, and it became a big thing in the NBA. Recently he has missed these games because of genuine injuries or illnesses.
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[Exp0sed]

He is one of the most load managed stars in the league. The Sixers pick travel days and back to backs to rest him.

There's not much else to it. If you were a sixers fan you'd only this. This decision is made by the medical staff. You can read articles about their load management style with him.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

let's suppose they have a back 2 back, say the first at home against the Wizards and the next night playing in Minny.
the first game is winnable even without him, the 2nd is unlikely to be winnable without him

a real competitor and MVP caliber player and athlete, demands to play the tougher game but Embiid will ALWAYS pick the Wizards home game over than tough b2b away game

that's not coming from the medical staff!
if he needs to sit-out some b2b's for medical, load managing reasons - he could just as easily sit out the first night and play on the b2b, right?

so there's nothing "medical" about it

be that as it may, if that's their load management style with him - do u see why that hurts his MVP case and casts a shadow on his career numbers? playing 65 games and cherry picking opponents and b2b's has a significant effect on performance and since he's the only star load-managed in this manner - his career numbers are skewed.
they are also skewerd by him red shirting the first two seasons.

these are facts, even an Embiid stan can agree on that, no?

[eyeatoma]

He is one of the most load managed stars in the league. The Sixers pick travel days and back to backs to rest him.

There's not much else to it. If you were a sixers fan you'd only this. This decision is made by the medical staff. You can read articles about their load management style with him.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

let's suppose they have a back 2 back, say the first at home against the Wizards and the next night playing in Minny.
the first game is winnable even without him, the 2nd is unlikely to be winnable without him

a real competitor and MVP caliber player and athlete, demands to play the tougher game but Embiid will ALWAYS pick the Wizards home game over than tough b2b away game

that's not coming from the medical staff!
if he needs to sit-out some b2b's for medical, load managing reasons - he could just as easily sit out the first night and play on the b2b, right?

so there's nothing "medical" about it

be that as it may, if that's their load management style with him - do u see why that hurts his MVP case and casts a shadow on his career numbers? playing 65 games and cherry picking opponents and b2b's has a significant effect on performance and since he's the only star load-managed in this manner - his career numbers are skewed.
they are also skewerd by him red shirting the first two seasons.

these are facts, even an Embiid stan can agree on that, no?

Bro there are plenty of times that he skips the **** teams and then plays the tough ones. K I'm done.

You should go write an article for the Athletic because you're clearly onto something. Who knows, we might have the next great NBA investigative reporter.

[Wolfgang630]

I don’t see the big deal. This isn’t trolling or something to get mad over. When everyone is so good you should be looking at guys who barely make the minimum cut off for games played compared to guys who play way more. Medical reasons or not.

[Infinite Llamas]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr

Has Giannis had a nice bounce back from his rough start? Sure. But for the season as a whole, he has his lowest BPM since 2017/18 and his worst on/off since 2014/15. He’s played like a top MVP candidate for half the season so far, but that’s not enough to get you better than 5th at best the way this season’s been going. Should be:

1. Jokic

(gap)

2. Embiid
(tie) SGA

4. Haliburton

(gap)

5. LeBron

6. Luka
(tie) Giannis

8. Curry
(tie) Durant

Giannis has had more than a nice bounce back his efficiency is off the charts the league is lucky just like with Shaq his free throw percentage is at 64% and even that is on the rise. Like I said no one is playing better right now.

And yet, in his biggest game of the year against the C’s he looked spooked and pedestrian. Go figure.

[Packbuckman]

Has Giannis had a nice bounce back from his rough start? Sure. But for the season as a whole, he has his lowest BPM since 2017/18 and his worst on/off since 2014/15. He’s played like a top MVP candidate for half the season so far, but that’s not enough to get you better than 5th at best the way this season’s been going. Should be:

1. Jokic

(gap)

2. Embiid
(tie) SGA

4. Haliburton

(gap)

5. LeBron

6. Luka
(tie) Giannis

8. Curry
(tie) Durant

Giannis has had more than a nice bounce back his efficiency is off the charts the league is lucky just like with Shaq his free throw percentage is at 64% and even that is on the rise. Like I said no one is playing better right now.

And yet, in his biggest game of the year against the C’s he looked spooked and pedestrian. Go figure.

He was sick which happens he missed a lot of lay ups he normally makes we will play them again the bucks are meshing now but we won’t be at our best for bit yet give them 40 gms together

[Exp0sed]

let's suppose they have a back 2 back, say the first at home against the Wizards and the next night playing in Minny.
the first game is winnable even without him, the 2nd is unlikely to be winnable without him

a real competitor and MVP caliber player and athlete, demands to play the tougher game but Embiid will ALWAYS pick the Wizards home game over than tough b2b away game

that's not coming from the medical staff!
if he needs to sit-out some b2b's for medical, load managing reasons - he could just as easily sit out the first night and play on the b2b, right?

so there's nothing "medical" about it

be that as it may, if that's their load management style with him - do u see why that hurts his MVP case and casts a shadow on his career numbers? playing 65 games and cherry picking opponents and b2b's has a significant effect on performance and since he's the only star load-managed in this manner - his career numbers are skewed.
they are also skewerd by him red shirting the first two seasons.

these are facts, even an Embiid stan can agree on that, no?

Bro there are plenty of times that he skips the **** teams and then plays the tough ones. K I'm done.

You should go write an article for the Athletic because you're clearly onto something. Who knows, we might have the next great NBA investigative reporter.

Thanks!

Can u give examples of such instances?
Meaning a b2b with the first one being an easy home game and the 2nd a tough away game vs. A good team wherein Embiid sat out the first, easy game but suited up for the tough matchup the next day?

I'm not saying it never happened, i dont recall such an occurence but can remember plenty of the opposite, so perhaps u can refresh my memory?

On that note, i challenge to find even one NBA player in history that had a career 56\44 ratio in home\away games

I doubt there was even one.


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[schnakenpopanz]

Everyone know it's Jokic vs the rest last 3 years. But NBA media knows it is boring to promote a non sexy European Unathletic Basketball genius.

[Cubbies2120]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr.

More points in better efficiency and way better defence mostly. Although obviously Jokic is the superior passer.

“Way better defense” for Giannis
“Superior passer” for Jokic

I can guarantee you the gap between Jokic’s and Giannis passing is significantly greater than their defense. Giannis has a pretty 5.2APG but when you look closer you see the Westbrook-esque turnover rate. He’s a finisher and a great one, but he’s no offensive hub.

Giannis: 5.2 apg, 4.2 topg
Jokic: 9.8 apg, 2.9 topg

Giannis: 112 DRTG, 1.4 DBPM, 17.1 TRB%, 0.9 DWS
Jokic: 109 DRTG, 4.4 DBPM, 20.8 TRB%, 1.2 DWS

I like how we’re excusing Giannis poor play at the start of the season to recovering from knee surgery, but I’ve yet to see any Nuggets fan excusing Jokic’s down year shooting to the lingering wrist and back issues.

[vgroc]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr.

More points in better efficiency and way better defence mostly. Although obviously Jokic is the superior passer.

Giannis has a pretty 5.2APG but when you look closer you see the Westbrook-esque turnover rate. He’s a finisher and a great one, but he’s no offensive hub.

Giannis: 5.2 apg, 4.2 topg
Jokic: 9.8 apg, 2.9 topg

I don't have a stat to back it up, but watching almost all of Giannis' games I can safely tell you that most of his TOs are not due to bad passes but from losing the ball or commiting a charge during his aggressive (and sometimes out of control) drives.

[Woodsanity]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr.

More points in better efficiency and way better defence mostly. Although obviously Jokic is the superior passer.

“Way better defense” for Giannis
“Superior passer” for Jokic

I can guarantee you the gap between Jokic’s and Giannis passing is significantly greater than their defense. Giannis has a pretty 5.2APG but when you look closer you see the Westbrook-esque turnover rate. He’s a finisher and a great one, but he’s no offensive hub.

Giannis: 5.2 apg, 4.2 topg
Jokic: 9.8 apg, 2.9 topg

Giannis: 112 DRTG, 1.4 DBPM, 17.1 TRB%, 0.9 DWS
Jokic: 109 DRTG, 4.4 DBPM, 20.8 TRB%, 1.2 DWS

I like how we’re excusing Giannis poor play at the start of the season to recovering from knee surgery, but I’ve yet to see any Nuggets fan excusing Jokic’s down year shooting to the lingering wrist and back issues.

Giannis has regressed a lot on defense to be honest. Team is bottom 10 on defense and part of it is due to Giannis regression on defense. Also part of it is obviously switching from Jrue an elite defender to Lillard a defensive sieve.

[Packbuckman]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr.

More points in better efficiency and way better defence mostly. Although obviously Jokic is the superior passer.

“Way better defense” for Giannis
“Superior passer” for Jokic

I can guarantee you the gap between Jokic’s and Giannis passing is significantly greater than their defense. Giannis has a pretty 5.2APG but when you look closer you see the Westbrook-esque turnover rate. He’s a finisher and a great one, but he’s no offensive hub.

Giannis: 5.2 apg, 4.2 topg
Jokic: 9.8 apg, 2.9 topg

Giannis: 112 DRTG, 1.4 DBPM, 17.1 TRB%, 0.9 DWS
Jokic: 109 DRTG, 4.4 DBPM, 20.8 TRB%, 1.2 DWS

I like how we’re excusing Giannis poor play at the start of the season to recovering from knee surgery, but I’ve yet to see any Nuggets fan excusing Jokic’s down year shooting to the lingering wrist and back issues.

Giannis has regressed a lot on defense to be honest. Team is bottom 10 on defense and part of it is due to Giannis regression on defense. Also part of it is obviously switching from Jrue an elite defender to Lillard a defensive sieve.

It’s not Giannis regression on D or jrue leaving a lot of it is new coach changing D to start season having Brook and Giannis away from basket that’s also the reason they went from top rebounding team to not this year.

[AleksandarN]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr.

More points in better efficiency and way better defence mostly. Although obviously Jokic is the superior passer.

“Way better defense” for Giannis
“Superior passer” for Jokic

I can guarantee you the gap between Jokic’s and Giannis passing is significantly greater than their defense. Giannis has a pretty 5.2APG but when you look closer you see the Westbrook-esque turnover rate. He’s a finisher and a great one, but he’s no offensive hub.

Giannis: 5.2 apg, 4.2 topg
Jokic: 9.8 apg, 2.9 topg

Giannis: 112 DRTG, 1.4 DBPM, 17.1 TRB%, 0.9 DWS
Jokic: 109 DRTG, 4.4 DBPM, 20.8 TRB%, 1.2 DWS

I like how we’re excusing Giannis poor play at the start of the season to recovering from knee surgery, but I’ve yet to see any Nuggets fan excusing Jokic’s down year shooting to the lingering wrist and back issues.

Not even passing. It is like people haven’t seen Jokic play. Passing only one aspect of what Jokic does on offense. He truly runs the offense. Draws up plays on the fly. Reads and manipulates defenses. That’s the difference not just he gets more assists. Yes he is a greater passer than Giannis but he is a way better playmaker. He is basically a player coach now a days. Scary to see his growth.

[AleksandarN]

Any list having Giannis at 5 is laughable after having knee surgery in offseason he’s playing better than anyone right now and his free throw shooting is only thing that’s stopping him from having a record breaking yr.

More points in better efficiency and way better defence mostly. Although obviously Jokic is the superior passer.

Giannis has a pretty 5.2APG but when you look closer you see the Westbrook-esque turnover rate. He’s a finisher and a great one, but he’s no offensive hub.

Giannis: 5.2 apg, 4.2 topg
Jokic: 9.8 apg, 2.9 topg

I don't have a stat to back it up, but watching almost all of Giannis' games I can safely tell you that most of his TOs are not due to bad passes but from losing the ball or commiting a charge during his aggressive (and sometimes out of control) drives.

So does Jokic.

[ty 4191]

Not even passing. It is like people haven’t seen Jokic play. Passing only one aspect of what Jokic does on offense. He truly runs the offense. Draws up plays on the fly. Reads and manipulates defenses. That’s the difference not just he gets more assists. Yes he is a greater passer than Giannis but he is a way better playmaker. He is basically a player coach now a days. Scary to see his growth.

Most people here (I guarantee this), do NOT watch Jokic, night in, night out, like you and I do.

They only watch him in the playoffs. Maybe they watch several games in the playoffs. They certainly DON'T watch him play 80-100 games a year.

That's the ongoing, massive disconnect between people like us, and, the rest of everyone voting and opining here.

That is the essence of the problem!