How Is LeBron Playing At Such A High Level? Unreal...

[Goomba3666]

Preach!!!

If he had a guy to take the team on their shoulders for several games at a time or etc the energy he'd conserve would be unimaginable and extend his career even further which is... I don't even know what to call it. I guess unimaginable again?

This is exactly what the world is telling AD and LeBron is showing him. James is like look dude if you take over I can ride alot further with YOU vs you riding with ME.

This is literally what happens though. AD got Nurkic into foul trouble, forces opponents to change their shots at the rim about 15× per game, plays GREAT defense, and gives the opposing team fits with his diverse offense. He won't sore 33 every night, but everything starts and finishes with him. Period.

Lakers with LeBron on court: +6.3
Lakers with LeBron off court: -14.0

Lakers with AD and LeBron on court: +6.08

Lakers with LeBron on court and no AD: +8.22 per 100 possessions

Lakers with AD on court and no LeBron: -6.98 per 100 possessions

These numbers include the one game James missed vs. a tanking Blazers’ team that was missing multiple players. If you take out that game, the Lakers are -17.1 with LeBron off court. AD was +17 in that game; take that game out and the Lakers with AD on and LeBron off court is -10.5.

So, no—it doesn’t all begin and end with him. Period.

If AD did play well enough, or we can say that it did, the Lakers would be very strong contenders.

Basketball reference is cool, but do you actually watch the games? Plus and minus strips away all context, unless that's what you're intentionally trying to do.

Lakers are NOT a better team without AD in the lineup. I certainly won't go basketball reference vs basketball reference with you, but if the front office or Lebron believed this, AD would've been gone a LONG time ago.

It's just you, a few people on the internet, and guys like Brian Windhorst who believe it.

Take that as you will.

[PistolPeteJR]

This is literally what happens though. AD got Nurkic into foul trouble, forces opponents to change their shots at the rim about 15× per game, plays GREAT defense, and gives the opposing team fits with his diverse offense. He won't sore 33 every night, but everything starts and finishes with him. Period.

Lakers with LeBron on court: +6.3
Lakers with LeBron off court: -14.0

Lakers with AD and LeBron on court: +6.08

Lakers with LeBron on court and no AD: +8.22 per 100 possessions

Lakers with AD on court and no LeBron: -6.98 per 100 possessions

These numbers include the one game James missed vs. a tanking Blazers’ team that was missing multiple players. If you take out that game, the Lakers are -17.1 with LeBron off court. AD was +17 in that game; take that game out and the Lakers with AD on and LeBron off court is -10.5.

So, no—it doesn’t all begin and end with him. Period.

If AD did play well enough, or we can say that it did, the Lakers would be very strong contenders.

Basketball reference is cool, but do you actually watch the games? Plus and minus strips away all context, unless that's what you're intentionally trying to do.

Lakers are NOT a better team without AD in the lineup. I certainly won't go basketball reference vs basketball reference with you, but if the front office or Lebron believed this, AD would've been gone a LONG time ago.

It's just you, a few people on the internet, and guys like Brian Windhorst who believe it.

Take that as you will.

Did you read the stats lol? They don't say that the Lakers are better without AD.

[homecourtloss]

2 big reasons imo.

1. He has never endured a career threatening injury.

2. He stopped playing possession to possession defense a long time ago and spends his energy on offense.

10000% spot on. No real injury + playing one side of the ball. The zone defense the Lakers are playing helps too.

When did he start playing one side of the ball?

Let’s take a look at this season:

Lakers’ DRtg with LeBron: 107.9 (equivalent, to second-best in the NBA)

Lakers’ DRtg without LeBron: 113.2 (equivalent to 15th in the NBA).

Lakers’ defense with AD: 110.5
Lakers’ defense without AD: 109.9

Lakers’ defense with AD+LeBron: 106.4

In 2020 and 2021, LeBron should’ve been part of all-defense teams. So I’m not sure when he started “ playing only one side of the ball.” Ladt two years weren’t strong defensive years, but 2021, 2020, 2019, 2017, 2016, and 2015 were all impactful defensive seasons, with 2016, 2020, and 2021 definitely warranting all NBA defensive teams. This is every season since he turned 30 years old.

[homecourtloss]

This is literally what happens though. AD got Nurkic into foul trouble, forces opponents to change their shots at the rim about 15× per game, plays GREAT defense, and gives the opposing team fits with his diverse offense. He won't sore 33 every night, but everything starts and finishes with him. Period.

Lakers with LeBron on court: +6.3
Lakers with LeBron off court: -14.0

Lakers with AD and LeBron on court: +6.08

Lakers with LeBron on court and no AD: +8.22 per 100 possessions

Lakers with AD on court and no LeBron: -6.98 per 100 possessions

These numbers include the one game James missed vs. a tanking Blazers’ team that was missing multiple players. If you take out that game, the Lakers are -17.1 with LeBron off court. AD was +17 in that game; take that game out and the Lakers with AD on and LeBron off court is -10.5.

So, no—it doesn’t all begin and end with him. Period.

If AD did play well enough, or we can say that it did, the Lakers would be very strong contenders.

Basketball reference is cool, but do you actually watch the games? Plus and minus strips away all context, unless that's what you're intentionally trying to do.

Lakers are NOT a better team without AD in the lineup. I certainly won't go basketball reference vs basketball reference with you, but if the front office or Lebron believed this, AD would've been gone a LONG time ago.

It's just you, a few people on the internet, and guys like Brian Windhorst who believe it.

Take that as you will.

Lakers need Anthony Davis, but you were the one who said that it “begins and ends with him.” What is your explanation for the numbers assuming that you understand them.

Why is it that the Lakers are +8.2 with LeBron on court WITHOUT AD, but are -6.98 on court with AD but without LeBron? And this is with the one game LeBron didn’t play against the Blazers — if you take away that game, then the Lakers with Anthony Davis are -10.5 without LeBron

Why are the Lakers -14.0 per 100 possessions in all the minutes that they have played without LeBron and if you take away the one game, they played against the tanking Blazers missing players, they are -17.1 without him?

Please explain these numbers.

[Goomba3666]

Lakers with LeBron on court: +6.3
Lakers with LeBron off court: -14.0

Lakers with AD and LeBron on court: +6.08

Lakers with LeBron on court and no AD: +8.22 per 100 possessions

Lakers with AD on court and no LeBron: -6.98 per 100 possessions

These numbers include the one game James missed vs. a tanking Blazers’ team that was missing multiple players. If you take out that game, the Lakers are -17.1 with LeBron off court. AD was +17 in that game; take that game out and the Lakers with AD on and LeBron off court is -10.5.

So, no—it doesn’t all begin and end with him. Period.

If AD did play well enough, or we can say that it did, the Lakers would be very strong contenders.

Basketball reference is cool, but do you actually watch the games? Plus and minus strips away all context, unless that's what you're intentionally trying to do.

Lakers are NOT a better team without AD in the lineup. I certainly won't go basketball reference vs basketball reference with you, but if the front office or Lebron believed this, AD would've been gone a LONG time ago.

It's just you, a few people on the internet, and guys like Brian Windhorst who believe it.

Take that as you will.

Lakers need Anthony Davis, but you were the one who said that it “begins and ends with him.” What is your explanation for the numbers assuming that you understand them.

Why is it that the Lakers are +8.2 with LeBron on court WITHOUT AD, but are -6.98 on court with AD but without LeBron? And this is with the one game LeBron didn’t play against the Blazers — if you take away that game, then the Lakers with Anthony Davis are -10.5 without LeBron

Why are the Lakers -14.0 per 100 possessions in all the minutes that they have played without LeBron and if you take away the one game, they played against the tanking Blazers missing players, they are -17.1 without him?

Please explain these numbers.

Again, not going stat for stat - AD anchors their defense and is their best defender. He’s also a guy that’s expected to give you buckets against the best defenses.

No AD = no playoffs, no ring, and no real success. Dying on the hill of the stats above is a strange way to go out. I’m proven right by the end result and the fact that the Lakers’ front office are still riding with him.

Again, Brian Windhorst & people with nothing at stake can use the very flawed +/- numbers above.

[dhsilv2]

prob the only one ever in the history of the league, that's why it's only ever worked for him.

As someone on gear, i dont think most of you know how gear works

I mean he's not blasting Tren and Test. He might use HRT levels of test, but things like EPO and things to target healing are going to be far more useful.

Also what your or I might get from gear and what an elite athlete gets won't be the same thing.

I'm not saying he's on eroids buying bathub gear but this idea of of billionaires only compounds, where does that come from? firstly if such a thing exists, it's not being given to athletes that's for a class like musk and bezos not a black kid from ohio. Everything else would have to come from a lab, and they want to make money\make their money back unless it's a national program for the olympics even then they don't stay hidden long enough for only a select few to get them.

I'm not saying he's on something magical. Perhaps the labs have done some extra to hide things from testing, but it's all still the stuff you or I could get. But I highly doubt you're taking EPO. Lebron on the other hand, I'd be shocked if he doesn't use EPO or something like it. Similarly, I know some SARM type drugs are very much able to target healing (don't ask me, i'm not an expert).

[Scoundreldays]

He drinks from his stash of "Mike's Secret Stuff" before each game

[homecourtloss]

Basketball reference is cool, but do you actually watch the games? Plus and minus strips away all context, unless that's what you're intentionally trying to do.

Lakers are NOT a better team without AD in the lineup. I certainly won't go basketball reference vs basketball reference with you, but if the front office or Lebron believed this, AD would've been gone a LONG time ago.

It's just you, a few people on the internet, and guys like Brian Windhorst who believe it.

Take that as you will.

Lakers need Anthony Davis, but you were the one who said that it “begins and ends with him.” What is your explanation for the numbers assuming that you understand them.

Why is it that the Lakers are +8.2 with LeBron on court WITHOUT AD, but are -6.98 on court with AD but without LeBron? And this is with the one game LeBron didn’t play against the Blazers — if you take away that game, then the Lakers with Anthony Davis are -10.5 without LeBron

Why are the Lakers -14.0 per 100 possessions in all the minutes that they have played without LeBron and if you take away the one game, they played against the tanking Blazers missing players, they are -17.1 without him?

Please explain these numbers.

Again, not going stat for stat - AD anchors their defense and is their best defender. He’s also a guy that’s expected to give you buckets against the best defenses.

No AD = no playoffs, no ring, and no real success. Dying on the hill of the stats above is a strange way to go out. I’m proven right by the end result and the fact that the Lakers’ front office are still riding with him.

Again, Brian Windhorst & people with nothing at stake can use the very flawed +/- numbers above.

What is “flawed” about the numbers above? They are literally how much the Lakers outscore opponents or get outscored when LeBron is on court, when Anthony Davis is on court, when they were not on court, when they were on court together, etc. saying that these numbers are flawed shows that you don’t understand them.

Also, you are changing the discussion and you already did change the discussion. You began with the assertion that “it begins and ends with Anthony Davis. Period.”

I am asking you if that is true why are the Lakers -14.0 with LeBron off court?

Why are they -6.98 with LeBron off court and Anthony Davis on court and playing?

Why is it that if LeBron is off court and Anthony Davis is on court they are getting blown out but when LeBron is on court, and Anthony Davis is on court, the Lakers would have the equivalent of the highest net rating (+8.2) in the NBA? Why is that?

[tsherkin]

100% agree with this, other than the 'fantastic' bit. He's been a top 3 player at his best. Period.

Top 3 is fantastic, lol. You don't have to be the singular star at the top of the NBA Christmas tree to be fantastic. That just cheapens the quality of the players other than the consensus #1 for no reason, IMHO.

And last year, he did his absolute best vs Jokic. Would blame that sweep on several others. Can't expect him to win the matchups vs prime Embid or prime Giannis or prime Jokic every night. The same way we never expected prime Bron to win the indivual matchups vs KD in his prime. It's the 'others'.

Yeah, I mean, Denver was amazing in that series. Murray ripped them apart and Jokic was an absolute monster. What are you going to do against a top-2 that posted like 33/6/5 and 28/15/12, right? Denver as a team shot over 40% from 3, smashed the Lakers on the offensive glass, and in general just obliterated LA offensively.

Neither Lebron nor AD posted even a 9.0% TOV rate, which was insane. LBJ posted about 28/10/10 on 60.5% TS. AD posted about 27/14/2 with almost 3 bpg, also on 60.4% TS. They were nuts. But LA shot under 35% from 3, the team as a whole couldn't hope to defend Denver and Lebron didn't have the takeover juice he did when he was younger. Russell was dogcrap, Shroder couldnt hit anything inside the arc, Vanderbilt sucked, Hachimura wasn't hitting 3s.

They were just outclassed. That happens. You can only do so much against a certain level of competition. It's amazing the Lakers even made it to that series. That was the WCFs, after all.

[Iwasawitness]

I agree, some of it is his perfect landing and jumping technique. Even back in 2010 I remember a physio breaking down how LeBron always lands perfectly in terms of minimizing strain on his lower body. It's text book.

One thing most people miss here is that LeBron's basketball IQ is probably the highest of all, he's taken the game to a point where he manages himself and picks spots during a game. You can see his age, it comes up in meters moved per second on the court. He was moving less and less over the Cavs stint and was bottom of the league as soon as he came to Lakers.

The game management part of his game has kept him young and has kept him playing well. A night like tonight was special, he still goes all out for playoffs and now it seemss IST.

Conversely, I remember Kobe seeming to land awkwardly more than he should have.

Lol. Funny. I remember Jalen Rose admitting to undercutting Kobe to intentionally take him out of the 2000 finals. And then remember Dahntay Jones intentionally undercutting him in Atlanta to injured him as well.

No such thing as Kobe 'landing awkwardly' due to an 'IQ'. One of the most delusional things I've heard on this forum. Lol

Almost as delusional as that time you claimed LeBron wasn’t a good one on one defender.

[Goomba3666]

100% agree with this, other than the 'fantastic' bit. He's been a top 3 player at his best. Period.

Top 3 is fantastic, lol. You don't have to be the singular star at the top of the NBA Christmas tree to be fantastic. That just cheapens the quality of the players other than the consensus #1 for no reason, IMHO.

And last year, he did his absolute best vs Jokic. Would blame that sweep on several others. Can't expect him to win the matchups vs prime Embid or prime Giannis or prime Jokic every night. The same way we never expected prime Bron to win the indivual matchups vs KD in his prime. It's the 'others'.

Yeah, I mean, Denver was amazing in that series. Murray ripped them apart and Jokic was an absolute monster. What are you going to do against a top-2 that posted like 33/6/5 and 28/15/12, right? Denver as a team shot over 40% from 3, smashed the Lakers on the offensive glass, and in general just obliterated LA offensively.

Neither Lebron nor AD posted even a 9.0% TOV rate, which was insane. LBJ posted about 28/10/10 on 60.5% TS. AD posted about 27/14/2 with almost 3 bpg, also on 60.4% TS. They were nuts. But LA shot under 35% from 3, the team as a whole couldn't hope to defend Denver and Lebron didn't have the takeover juice he did when he was younger. Russell was dogcrap, Shroder couldnt hit anything inside the arc, Vanderbilt sucked, Hachimura wasn't hitting 3s.

They were just outclassed. That happens. You can only do so much against a certain level of competition. It's amazing the Lakers even made it to that series. That was the WCFs, after all.

Couldn’t agree more. Anything goes in that conference.

[Goomba3666]

Conversely, I remember Kobe seeming to land awkwardly more than he should have.

Lol. Funny. I remember Jalen Rose admitting to undercutting Kobe to intentionally take him out of the 2000 finals. And then remember Dahntay Jones intentionally undercutting him in Atlanta to injured him as well.

No such thing as Kobe 'landing awkwardly' due to an 'IQ'. One of the most delusional things I've heard on this forum. Lol

Almost as delusional as that time you claimed LeBron wasn’t a good one on one defender.

I don’t think he is. But please point to me some statistics about him holding a no name to under 40% from the field to prove your point.

[tsherkin]

I don’t think he is. But please point to me some statistics about him holding a no name to under 40% from the field to prove your point.

In his heyday, Lebron was a good one on one defender when he wanted to be. Kind of like Kobe and Mike, tbh. Only so much energy for such when you're shouldering the burden as the primary offensive player, though. Back in 2000, 2001 for Kobe, bit different than later on in his career, especially post-Shaq.

Lebron's major contributions on defense were much more important than in 1v1 setups, though. He was the quarterback on D and he was an exceptional help defender. He obviously isn't the same now as he was back in Miami, of course. His mobility at that time was INSANE.

[slick_watts]

lebron should donate his body to science after his career is over.

[toodles23]

Lakers need Anthony Davis, but you were the one who said that it “begins and ends with him.” What is your explanation for the numbers assuming that you understand them.

Why is it that the Lakers are +8.2 with LeBron on court WITHOUT AD, but are -6.98 on court with AD but without LeBron? And this is with the one game LeBron didn’t play against the Blazers — if you take away that game, then the Lakers with Anthony Davis are -10.5 without LeBron

Why are the Lakers -14.0 per 100 possessions in all the minutes that they have played without LeBron and if you take away the one game, they played against the tanking Blazers missing players, they are -17.1 without him?

Please explain these numbers.

Again, not going stat for stat - AD anchors their defense and is their best defender. He’s also a guy that’s expected to give you buckets against the best defenses.

No AD = no playoffs, no ring, and no real success. Dying on the hill of the stats above is a strange way to go out. I’m proven right by the end result and the fact that the Lakers’ front office are still riding with him.

Again, Brian Windhorst & people with nothing at stake can use the very flawed +/- numbers above.

What is “flawed” about the numbers above? They are literally how much the Lakers outscore opponents or get outscored when LeBron is on court, when Anthony Davis is on court, when they were not on court, when they were on court together, etc. saying that these numbers are flawed shows that you don’t understand them.

Also, you are changing the discussion and you already did change the discussion. You began with the assertion that “it begins and ends with Anthony Davis. Period.”

I am asking you if that is true why are the Lakers -14.0 with LeBron off court?

Why are they -6.98 with LeBron off court and Anthony Davis on court and playing?

Why is it that if LeBron is off court and Anthony Davis is on court they are getting blown out but when LeBron is on court, and Anthony Davis is on court, the Lakers would have the equivalent of the highest net rating (+8.2) in the NBA? Why is that?

Vague appeals to "wAtCh Da GaMeS" are the last refuge for guys who have no argument whatsoever. They know it's impossible to really falsify because doing so would require watching and breaking down dozens of hours of footage, so they can just make stuff up that sound good for their argument.

[One Last Shot]

Lol. Funny. I remember Jalen Rose admitting to undercutting Kobe to intentionally take him out of the 2000 finals. And then remember Dahntay Jones intentionally undercutting him in Atlanta to injured him as well.

No such thing as Kobe 'landing awkwardly' due to an 'IQ'. One of the most delusional things I've heard on this forum. Lol

Almost as delusional as that time you claimed LeBron wasn’t a good one on one defender.

I don’t think he is. But please point to me some statistics about him holding a no name to under 40% from the field to prove your point.

Aren't you the dude who said Anthony Daivs is the offensive anchor of the Lakers in some game thread before just to hate on LeBron? Other guy showed you the stats that Lakers are better when LeBron is on the court, actually they have the best net rating when LeBron + AD playing at the same time, then you said you don't care about stats just watch the game then here you are asking another guy for some stats to prove his point? It's like your a chameleon who will instantly change according to what will suit your narrative you are pushing just to hate on a player in his 21st season.

Since your asking for LeBron's "stats" while defending, here's a sample of him locking up the reigning MVP during the playoffs, not just a no-name in some regular season games.


"After going 0-for-5 from the floor with a turnover when guarded by LeBron James in Game 4, Derrick Rose struggled against him once again Thursday, going 1-for-10 with two turnovers in Game 5. Rose shot 6.3 percent from the floor in the series when defended by James, lowest among any player that defended him on five or more plays.

That's just unbelievable -- 1-15 for the MVP over two critical playoff games. There's a reason LeBron makes the All-Defense team every year, and while he'll continue to for the next several years. That's just unfair."

[Got em Coach]

he has to be doings peds right?

[Anticon]

Honestly think the "Lebron on PEDs" thing is the most annoying point since the Ibaka is old story. No proof but just absolute certainty on it.

He's the best combo of speed, skill, strength and smarts the league has ever seen, and NBA rules/defences are easier than 20 years ago. For someone that smart the game will be easy so long as his body cooperates.

I'll never get why people think it's totally normal for half the dudes at their local gym who look like poop shirtless to use gear, but they think ANY of the best athletes aren't using PED's.

Lots of the best athletes use PEDs, many have been caught.

With people like Lance/Bonds there was clearly smoke. With Lebron there has never been anything besides people being convinced as a standard talking point.

[Cavsfansince84]

PEDs are not necessarily cheating. It is very likely that he is using things that aren’t even banned.

I mean we know he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber, spends millions on his body, has access to “the LeBron James of Feet”, etc. These are obviously advantages he has over 90% of the other guys in the league. It isn’t cheating, but there is a clear difference between him doing this in 2023 and someone doing this in 1983 for example.

I agree with most of what you are saying but I don't think its over 90% of other guys in the league. More like 10% who maybe don't want to spend the money and put in the time he does. Most of it is just choice. Choosing to put in all the hours and do things like ice your legs up after every game(which he's been doing since his mid 20's). Some do and some don't but isn't because of money. There's also a very fine line nowadays between peds helping or hurting a guy in the long run. Many help performance with very little in the way of long time drawbacks.

[Homer38]

Read on Twitter