2023-24 Regular Season

[JonFromVA]

Also just wanted to touch on this point by itself, if Mitchell turns down an extension for the 2nd summer in a row, you're going to get low balled anyway, especially if it's off a 3rd straight terrible playoff performance for him.

If Mitchell turns down an extension in the summer, there will be multiple bidders as it's a lot easier to make big trades in the summer.

I'm just saying you're going to get pennies on the dollar for a guy on a 1+1 with rumored to have his eye on NYC.

Whether teams offer us pennies on the dollar now, or 6 months from now, we can always say PASS.

At least as long as Donovan can resist showing up in a fat suit.

And if someone wants to make a killer offer for Donovan tomorrow, we can accept it tomorrow.

What's the problem, here?

[JujitsuFlip]

If Mitchell turns down an extension in the summer, there will be multiple bidders as it's a lot easier to make big trades in the summer.

I'm just saying you're going to get pennies on the dollar for a guy on a 1+1 with rumored to have his eye on NYC.

Whether teams offer us pennies on the dollar now, or 6 months from now, we can always say PASS.

At least as long as Donovan can resist showing up in a fat suit.

And if someone wants to make a killer offer for Donovan tomorrow, we can accept it tomorrow.

What's the problem, here?

I don't wanna trade him during this season, he can still sign his extension this summer, if he refuses that, that is the turning point, imo.

But i don't think there are gonna be any big offers if it gets to that point. So every single offer may be pennies on the dollar and hopefully the Cavs are smart enough to accept the best one, if it gets to that.

[toooskies]

Oh, if we were starting Okoro, with Garland and Mitchell slumping at the same time, I suspect we'd be well below .500 right now and JBB would already have gotten the axe.

What if the slump is due to Garland and Mitchell being less comfortable on offense with Strus moving so much than they were running more basic pick-and-rolls with a static Okoro in the corner?

What if Garland is feeling squeezed by Strus taking more usage in the starting lineup, including a ton of the drives with pocket passes to bigs? Garland's shot attempts are down, his 3-point percentages down, his assists are down, his turnovers up. Something's wrong and everyone assumes it's an injury, but maybe he's just not comfortable being even further out of the spotlight?

If the slumps of Mitchell and Garland are at all scheme-related, you have to look at the change in scheme and why it hasn't worked. But everyone is like "Strus is awesome, so the problem can't be him". But maybe Strus is TOO good at being a moving option on the wing that it's throwing off the dynamic? And maybe it's a time thing for them to get used to Strus's style-- or maybe it's not going to work and we need to consider alternatives. And not jumping to fire-the-coach, trade-the-best-player alternatives. Maybe just using Strus off the bench.

It's about the playoffs, not the regular season, always has been.

Cavs may be handcuffed in that regard, by JB but Strus' ability is needed, in a 7 game series.

Spacing doesn't magically start working in the playoffs. It might withstand scheme adjustments better than a lack of it, but it should still have positive effects in the regular season.

Honestly a lot of that sounds bonkers to me, the playground offense is what the Cavs need to strive to do? No thanks. That 100% doesn't work in the post season, I've watched it 2 April's in a row fail.

Strus isn't the problem. A good coach would be able to figure it out, if he was but him and Niang being able to shoot is not the issue.

Well, it might be that Garland and Mitchell need time to adapt and learn.

[JujitsuFlip]

What if the slump is due to Garland and Mitchell being less comfortable on offense with Strus moving so much than they were running more basic pick-and-rolls with a static Okoro in the corner?

What if Garland is feeling squeezed by Strus taking more usage in the starting lineup, including a ton of the drives with pocket passes to bigs? Garland's shot attempts are down, his 3-point percentages down, his assists are down, his turnovers up. Something's wrong and everyone assumes it's an injury, but maybe he's just not comfortable being even further out of the spotlight?

If the slumps of Mitchell and Garland are at all scheme-related, you have to look at the change in scheme and why it hasn't worked. But everyone is like "Strus is awesome, so the problem can't be him". But maybe Strus is TOO good at being a moving option on the wing that it's throwing off the dynamic? And maybe it's a time thing for them to get used to Strus's style-- or maybe it's not going to work and we need to consider alternatives. And not jumping to fire-the-coach, trade-the-best-player alternatives. Maybe just using Strus off the bench.


Spacing doesn't magically start working in the playoffs. It might withstand scheme adjustments better than a lack of it, but it should still have positive effects in the regular season.

Honestly a lot of that sounds bonkers to me, the playground offense is what the Cavs need to strive to do? No thanks. That 100% doesn't work in the post season, I've watched it 2 April's in a row fail.

Strus isn't the problem. A good coach would be able to figure it out, if he was but him and Niang being able to shoot is not the issue.

Well, it might be that Garland and Mitchell need time to adapt and learn.

It's very possible, Garland is only 23 years old. Garland needs to learn how to fit with the guys we bring in, he plays the floor general role. We have a 1st round pick and another MLE player incoming this summer at minimum.

[jbk1234]

If we've seen anything this year it's that upgrading spacing from Okoro to Strus hasn't exactly made us more efficient like everyone predicted.

Oh, if we were starting Okoro, with Garland and Mitchell slumping at the same time, I suspect we'd be well below .500 right now and JBB would already have gotten the axe.

What if the slump is due to Garland and Mitchell being less comfortable on offense with Strus moving so much than they were running more basic pick-and-rolls with a static Okoro in the corner?

What if Garland is feeling squeezed by Strus taking more usage in the starting lineup, including a ton of the drives with pocket passes to bigs? Garland's shot attempts are down, his 3-point percentages down, his assists are down, his turnovers up. Something's wrong and everyone assumes it's an injury, but maybe he's just not comfortable being even further out of the spotlight?

If the slumps of Mitchell and Garland are at all scheme-related, you have to look at the change in scheme and why it hasn't worked. But everyone is like "Strus is awesome, so the problem can't be him". But maybe Strus is TOO good at being a moving option on the wing that it's throwing off the dynamic? And maybe it's a time thing for them to get used to Strus's style-- or maybe it's not going to work and we need to consider alternatives. And not jumping to fire-the-coach, trade-the-best-player alternatives. Maybe just using Strus off the bench.

It's about the playoffs, not the regular season, always has been.

Cavs may be handcuffed in that regard, by JB but Strus' ability is needed, in a 7 game series.

Spacing doesn't magically start working in the playoffs. It might withstand scheme adjustments better than a lack of it, but it should still have positive effects in the regular season.

If your all nba SG and all star PG can't adjust to a complication like shooters moving off the ball, which tbc I don't buy for a second, then you should probably trade them both before the rest of the NBA figures out how overrated they are and you're stuck running a simple Simon offense that won't succeed in the playoffs.

[Iwasawitness]

Oh, if we were starting Okoro, with Garland and Mitchell slumping at the same time, I suspect we'd be well below .500 right now and JBB would already have gotten the axe.

It's kind of moot because Isaac has been injured for a bunch of games, but he is shooting 38.1% on his 3pters at the moment, and you know there was that time before Mitchell when we were happy to generate a lot of our offense by turning defensive stops in to easy buckets.

So, maybe, maybe not.

Okoro is simply better off the bench on this roster (and most rosters tbh). Stus is right there with Okoro as far as three point percentage. The key difference being that Strus is averaging 7.7 attempts per game while Okoro averages less than 2. Off the top of my head, Strus almost single handily beat the Nets and Raptors. I'm sure there's a couple others as well.

The goal of adding shooters was to make opposing teams pay for packaging the paint. So far Strus has done just that.

Strus had that 20 piece against Philly which was an OT win for us too.

I kind of see where he’s coming from but imo it’s a misguided take. Garland just hasn’t been able to have consistent playing time, literally from the very start of the season that has been a problem for him. The turnovers are a concern and so are his decreased stats but overall… I still like what I see from him and I’m confident he’ll break out of the slump.

The fact of the matter is that Strus has been an outstanding pickup. So far, the people claiming he’s not as good as we thought he’d be have been horribly wrong. He’s actually been better than I was expecting. I’ve mentioned before that I love the idea of Strus being our starting SG going forward if Mitchell gets traded and my stance probably won’t change.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm just baffled someone can think a guy who has played in every game this season and is tied for the most MPG for the team is the issue.

The guy is taking almost 8 three pointers a game and is making 38.5% of them... This is exactly what the doctor ordered.

If anyone is still disgruntled about not getting Naz Reid and Christian Wood this summer, just say that.

Strus is NOT the issue.

[Iwasawitness]

I'm just baffled someone can think a guy who has played in every game this season and is tied for the most MPG for the team is the issue.

The guy is taking almost 8 three pointers a game and is making 38.5% of them... This is exactly what the doctor ordered.

If anyone is still disgruntled about not getting Naz Reid and Christian Wood this summer, just say that.

Strus is NOT the issue.

I do really wish we could have gotten Reid but yeah, Strus has been fantastic. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that he’d be this good.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm just baffled someone can think a guy who has played in every game this season and is tied for the most MPG for the team is the issue.

The guy is taking almost 8 three pointers a game and is making 38.5% of them... This is exactly what the doctor ordered.

If anyone is still disgruntled about not getting Naz Reid and Christian Wood this summer, just say that.

Strus is NOT the issue.

I do really wish we could have gotten Reid but yeah, Strus has been fantastic. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that he’d be this good.

For real, like he has a complete game. 3rd on the team in assists, rebounds, and blocks; 4th on the team in steals.

I'm not sure what else Strus can honestly do. For the contract he was given, he is outperforming it by far.

[toooskies]

Oh, if we were starting Okoro, with Garland and Mitchell slumping at the same time, I suspect we'd be well below .500 right now and JBB would already have gotten the axe.

What if the slump is due to Garland and Mitchell being less comfortable on offense with Strus moving so much than they were running more basic pick-and-rolls with a static Okoro in the corner?

What if Garland is feeling squeezed by Strus taking more usage in the starting lineup, including a ton of the drives with pocket passes to bigs? Garland's shot attempts are down, his 3-point percentages down, his assists are down, his turnovers up. Something's wrong and everyone assumes it's an injury, but maybe he's just not comfortable being even further out of the spotlight?

If the slumps of Mitchell and Garland are at all scheme-related, you have to look at the change in scheme and why it hasn't worked. But everyone is like "Strus is awesome, so the problem can't be him". But maybe Strus is TOO good at being a moving option on the wing that it's throwing off the dynamic? And maybe it's a time thing for them to get used to Strus's style-- or maybe it's not going to work and we need to consider alternatives. And not jumping to fire-the-coach, trade-the-best-player alternatives. Maybe just using Strus off the bench.

It's about the playoffs, not the regular season, always has been.

Cavs may be handcuffed in that regard, by JB but Strus' ability is needed, in a 7 game series.

Spacing doesn't magically start working in the playoffs. It might withstand scheme adjustments better than a lack of it, but it should still have positive effects in the regular season.

If your all nba SG and all star PG can't adjust to a complication like shooters moving off the ball, which tbc I don't buy for a second, then you should probably trade them both before the rest of the NBA figures out how overrated they are and you're stuck running a simple Simon offense that won't succeed in the playoffs.

In the same way that adding too many stars can be hard for teams like the Clippers, we may have a bit of an issue with Strus taking more usage than a guy like Okoro or Wade or a PJ Tucker type. You see stars have that problem all the time, it's not a question of being overrated. It has to do with Mitchell and Garland being off-ball more, but barely taking any catch-and-shoot 3s.

[jbk1234]

What if the slump is due to Garland and Mitchell being less comfortable on offense with Strus moving so much than they were running more basic pick-and-rolls with a static Okoro in the corner?

What if Garland is feeling squeezed by Strus taking more usage in the starting lineup, including a ton of the drives with pocket passes to bigs? Garland's shot attempts are down, his 3-point percentages down, his assists are down, his turnovers up. Something's wrong and everyone assumes it's an injury, but maybe he's just not comfortable being even further out of the spotlight?

If the slumps of Mitchell and Garland are at all scheme-related, you have to look at the change in scheme and why it hasn't worked. But everyone is like "Strus is awesome, so the problem can't be him". But maybe Strus is TOO good at being a moving option on the wing that it's throwing off the dynamic? And maybe it's a time thing for them to get used to Strus's style-- or maybe it's not going to work and we need to consider alternatives. And not jumping to fire-the-coach, trade-the-best-player alternatives. Maybe just using Strus off the bench.


Spacing doesn't magically start working in the playoffs. It might withstand scheme adjustments better than a lack of it, but it should still have positive effects in the regular season.

If your all nba SG and all star PG can't adjust to a complication like shooters moving off the ball, which tbc I don't buy for a second, then you should probably trade them both before the rest of the NBA figures out how overrated they are and you're stuck running a simple Simon offense that won't succeed in the playoffs.

In the same way that adding too many stars can be hard for teams like the Clippers, we may have a bit of an issue with Strus taking more usage than a guy like Okoro or Wade or a PJ Tucker type. You see stars have that problem all the time, it's not a question of being overrated. It has to do with Mitchell and Garland being off-ball more, but barely taking any catch-and-shoot 3s.

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

[toooskies]

If your all nba SG and all star PG can't adjust to a complication like shooters moving off the ball, which tbc I don't buy for a second, then you should probably trade them both before the rest of the NBA figures out how overrated they are and you're stuck running a simple Simon offense that won't succeed in the playoffs.

In the same way that adding too many stars can be hard for teams like the Clippers, we may have a bit of an issue with Strus taking more usage than a guy like Okoro or Wade or a PJ Tucker type. You see stars have that problem all the time, it's not a question of being overrated. It has to do with Mitchell and Garland being off-ball more, but barely taking any catch-and-shoot 3s.

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

What they can do right now is not an indicator of what they may be able to do down the road. Adjusting to new systems takes time.

[jbk1234]

In the same way that adding too many stars can be hard for teams like the Clippers, we may have a bit of an issue with Strus taking more usage than a guy like Okoro or Wade or a PJ Tucker type. You see stars have that problem all the time, it's not a question of being overrated. It has to do with Mitchell and Garland being off-ball more, but barely taking any catch-and-shoot 3s.

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

What they can do right now is not an indicator of what they may be able to do down the road. Adjusting to new systems takes time.

I agree with that. I suspect that both if them will figure it out. Niang reportedly said something to Mitchell about having 4 guys open when forced a shot inside that got blocked last night and Mitchell credited him with doing so. My point was that reverting back to a simpler offense with Okoro as a safety valve in the corner isn't the answer

[JujitsuFlip]

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

What they can do right now is not an indicator of what they may be able to do down the road. Adjusting to new systems takes time.

I agree with that. I suspect that both if them will figure it out. Niang reportedly said something to Mitchell about having 4 guys open when forced a shot inside that got blocked last night and Mitchell credited him with doing so. My point was that reverting back to a simpler offense with Okoro as a safety valve in the corner isn't the answer

Never was but even if for some reason that was the route they went, I'd still want Strus or Niang in that spot instead of Okoro.

[toooskies]

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

What they can do right now is not an indicator of what they may be able to do down the road. Adjusting to new systems takes time.

I agree with that. I suspect that both if them will figure it out. Niang reportedly said something to Mitchell about having 4 guys open when forced a shot inside that got blocked last night and Mitchell credited him with doing so. My point was that reverting back to a simpler offense with Okoro as a safety valve in the corner isn't the answer

I mean, Okoro's not the only answer. Strus in the corner in the simpler offense might work. Possibly Wade.

[JonFromVA]

If your all nba SG and all star PG can't adjust to a complication like shooters moving off the ball, which tbc I don't buy for a second, then you should probably trade them both before the rest of the NBA figures out how overrated they are and you're stuck running a simple Simon offense that won't succeed in the playoffs.

In the same way that adding too many stars can be hard for teams like the Clippers, we may have a bit of an issue with Strus taking more usage than a guy like Okoro or Wade or a PJ Tucker type. You see stars have that problem all the time, it's not a question of being overrated. It has to do with Mitchell and Garland being off-ball more, but barely taking any catch-and-shoot 3s.

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

The stupid reality of the NBA is when something new isn't getting results, players and/or coaches will fall back on something they're comfortable with. It can take multiple years to implement a new system and really get it clicking and still you can run in to a team with an answer for it.

The thing is even even in the Orlando win, the +/- numbers don't reflect the box score performance and it's a red flag. As everyone gets healthy and used to playing together, we should see this change. Isaac Okoro barely dented the box score and yet led the team with a +16. If it doesn't mean anything, it should stop happening.

[jbk1234]

In the same way that adding too many stars can be hard for teams like the Clippers, we may have a bit of an issue with Strus taking more usage than a guy like Okoro or Wade or a PJ Tucker type. You see stars have that problem all the time, it's not a question of being overrated. It has to do with Mitchell and Garland being off-ball more, but barely taking any catch-and-shoot 3s.

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

The stupid reality of the NBA is when something new isn't getting results, players and/or coaches will fall back on something they're comfortable with. It can take multiple years to implement a new system and really get it clicking and still you can run in to a team with an answer for it.

The thing is even even in the Orlando win, the +/- numbers don't reflect the box score performance and it's a red flag. As everyone gets healthy and used to playing together, we should see this change. Isaac Okoro barely dented the box score and yet led the team with a +16. If it doesn't mean anything, it should stop happening.

It could be as simple as he's actually a plus in rotations that don't have Allen and Mobley on the floor, but you're talking about a very small sample size here. I'd be curious as to whether his on/off numbers are as good. There was a sequence in the 4th where he and Wade both bricked wide open 3s, Orlando started closing and JBB yanked both of them.

[Iwasawitness]

I'm just baffled someone can think a guy who has played in every game this season and is tied for the most MPG for the team is the issue.

The guy is taking almost 8 three pointers a game and is making 38.5% of them... This is exactly what the doctor ordered.

If anyone is still disgruntled about not getting Naz Reid and Christian Wood this summer, just say that.

Strus is NOT the issue.

I do really wish we could have gotten Reid but yeah, Strus has been fantastic. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that he’d be this good.

For real, like he has a complete game. 3rd on the team in assists, rebounds, and blocks; 4th on the team in steals.

I'm not sure what else Strus can honestly do. For the contract he was given, he is outperforming it by far.

His play, if he’s able to carry this into the playoffs, will be the key to us getting out of the first round, assuming our opponent doesn’t matchup well with us again.

[JonFromVA]

You have to be able to score against good defensive teams to advance in the playoffs. Unless your team has prime LBJ on it, that necessarily involves keeping the other team off-balance and moving on defense.

I've seen what happens when the other team loads up on Garland and/or Mitchell in ISO or PNR settings. I've seen what happens when Thibs brings in McBride to cool off Garland after Garland figured out Mitchell's drop coverage. This is long way of saying that I'm only half kidding when I say trade Garland and/or Mitchell if they can't play in an offense that puts the other team's defenders in motion. We don't have prime LBJ on the roster. We can't just play on cheat mode.

The stupid reality of the NBA is when something new isn't getting results, players and/or coaches will fall back on something they're comfortable with. It can take multiple years to implement a new system and really get it clicking and still you can run in to a team with an answer for it.

The thing is even even in the Orlando win, the +/- numbers don't reflect the box score performance and it's a red flag. As everyone gets healthy and used to playing together, we should see this change. Isaac Okoro barely dented the box score and yet led the team with a +16. If it doesn't mean anything, it should stop happening.

It could be as simple as he's actually a plus in rotations that don't have Allen and Mobley on the floor, but you're talking about a very small sample size here. I'd be curious as to whether his on/off numbers are as good. There was a sequence in the 4th where he and Wade both bricked wide open 3s, Orlando started closing and JBB yanked both of them.

popcornmachine shows Orlando went on a 12-2 run in the early part of the 4th which likely precipitated the lineup change. but Isaac was still just -1 in the 4th and +5 in the 3rd.

Keep an eye on Niang, it's looking to me like he has more "true" gravity when he's on the floor. Using Isaac to balance him on defense might be important as Isaac is strong enough to help with bigs.

[JonFromVA]

I do really wish we could have gotten Reid but yeah, Strus has been fantastic. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that he’d be this good.

For real, like he has a complete game. 3rd on the team in assists, rebounds, and blocks; 4th on the team in steals.

I'm not sure what else Strus can honestly do. For the contract he was given, he is outperforming it by far.

His play, if he’s able to carry this into the playoffs, will be the key to us getting out of the first round, assuming our opponent doesn’t matchup well with us again.

If our core-4 isn't healthy and playing well, nothing else is going to matter.