NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[greekbuck34]

These posts about the highest career PPG or fastest to 10k points are ridiculous without context.
Embiid basically skipped his first 3 seasons and started his career with his body fully grown up and himself fully adjusted to USA, Philly and the NBA.
Other 18y future superstars struggle in their rookie and sophomore years because their bodies still change, they try to gain muscle, adapt to their new country/city etc while they are also playing basketball. Giannis passed those years, Wemby is dealing with the same right now and a million other players also do.

And it's not just that. Embiid has never played more than 68 games in his career. Had countless periods of minute restriction, skipped most of the b2bs in his way etc.

[eyeatoma]

These posts about the highest career PPG or fastest to 10k points are ridiculous without context.
Embiid basically skipped his first 3 seasons and started his career with his body fully grown up and himself fully adjusted to USA, Philly and the NBA.
Other 18y future superstars struggle in their rookie and sophomore years because their bodies still change, they try to gain muscle, adapt to their new country/city etc while they are also playing basketball. Giannis passed those years, Wemby is dealing with the same right now and a million other players also do.

And it's not just that. Embiid has never played more than 68 games in his career. Had countless periods of minute restriction, skipped most of the b2bs in his way etc.

I'd say that it's more impressive. Scoring that much with minute restrictions. He did this in spite of 2 red shirt years. Do you know how hard it is to get in shape when your foot is broken?

Funny you talk about Embiid missing back to backs when Giannis has missed more the last 2-3 years and more games as well.

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[RB34]

Read on Twitter

He’s an incredible scorer but let’s not get it twisted. There is no bias against Embiid, people don’t like him because he’s a flopper, foul baiter and his game is ugly.

People don't like him because of Jokic (they think every player should play like him, be a point center. Jokic is 1 of 1, in NBA histoyr. He's an incredble player, probably a future top 10 player, the biggest problem has been the comparisons. They're not the same player and shouldn't be, that would be boring). I get the flopping can be excessive, and I wish social media didn't view his flopping in a vacuum. His game is actually not ugly. He earns the majority of his calls, and he plays like MJ/Kobe/Durant/Carmelo/Dirk (hell you even see it in that tweet, that is the majority of his game) from the mid range, which is one of the most aesthetic playing styles there is. He is also a tremendous post player. Had a wonderful dream shake today. Not sure how you can say his game is ugly. I guess the foul baiting is ugly, but then why blame him, and not the league? Again, it's a fraction of his game. Yet it's magnified 1000x on social media.

The refs and the NBA...They;'re the ones that reward it. Put a clamp on it, if it's not good for the game. But, if you do that, you also need to put a clamp on the unmitigated disaster defense has been. The league made it impossible to defend a player, and offense has reigned supreme. Embiid would be valuable on offense and on defense.

Fair post. You’re right I can’t call his game entirely ugly, he has some very nice moves especially for someone that size. It just gets hard to watch sometimes when his moves are bookended by some egregious flop.

[eyeatoma]

He’s an incredible scorer but let’s not get it twisted. There is no bias against Embiid, people don’t like him because he’s a flopper, foul baiter and his game is ugly.

People don't like him because of Jokic (they think every player should play like him, be a point center. Jokic is 1 of 1, in NBA histoyr. He's an incredble player, probably a future top 10 player, the biggest problem has been the comparisons. They're not the same player and shouldn't be, that would be boring). I get the flopping can be excessive, and I wish social media didn't view his flopping in a vacuum. His game is actually not ugly. He earns the majority of his calls, and he plays like MJ/Kobe/Durant/Carmelo/Dirk (hell you even see it in that tweet, that is the majority of his game) from the mid range, which is one of the most aesthetic playing styles there is. He is also a tremendous post player. Had a wonderful dream shake today. Not sure how you can say his game is ugly. I guess the foul baiting is ugly, but then why blame him, and not the league? Again, it's a fraction of his game. Yet it's magnified 1000x on social media.

The refs and the NBA...They;'re the ones that reward it. Put a clamp on it, if it's not good for the game. But, if you do that, you also need to put a clamp on the unmitigated disaster defense has been. The league made it impossible to defend a player, and offense has reigned supreme. Embiid would be valuable on offense and on defense.

Fair post. You’re right I can’t call his game entirely ugly, he has some very nice moves especially for someone that size. It just gets hard to watch sometimes when his moves are bookended by some egregious flop.

That's also fair.

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[greekbuck34]

These posts about the highest career PPG or fastest to 10k points are ridiculous without context.
Embiid basically skipped his first 3 seasons and started his career with his body fully grown up and himself fully adjusted to USA, Philly and the NBA.
Other 18y future superstars struggle in their rookie and sophomore years because their bodies still change, they try to gain muscle, adapt to their new country/city etc while they are also playing basketball. Giannis passed those years, Wemby is dealing with the same right now and a million other players also do.

And it's not just that. Embiid has never played more than 68 games in his career. Had countless periods of minute restriction, skipped most of the b2bs in his way etc.

I'd say that it's more impressive. Scoring that much with minute restrictions. He did this in spite of 2 red shirt years. Do you know how hard it is to get in shape when your foot is broken?

Funny you talk about Embiid missing back to backs when Giannis has missed more the last 2-3 years and more games as well.

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Giannis is 1 year younger than Embiid and he played nearly double the games so far.
You think its more impressive to score when you know you will be subbed out after your 25-30th minute or that you will skip tomorrows game?
You can basically give everything you got in those minutes and not worry about heavy legs in the 4th quarter or in the b2b.

Also that's not even the biggest reason for Embiid's high career PPG. It's as I've said the 2-3 seasons he skipped while he was still a kid.

Giannis averaged 7 PPG on his 77 games he played as a rookie, away from his family looking like this. He was 3-4 inches shorter and basically a skeleton.



Kobe also averaged 7 PPG as a 18y rookie. 15 PPG as a sophomore. Those seasons still count to your career PPG and the fastest to 10k etc.

[_NoMas]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

[eyeatoma]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

More like defensive sieve Tyrese Maxey and Tobias Harris.

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[eyeatoma]

These posts about the highest career PPG or fastest to 10k points are ridiculous without context.
Embiid basically skipped his first 3 seasons and started his career with his body fully grown up and himself fully adjusted to USA, Philly and the NBA.
Other 18y future superstars struggle in their rookie and sophomore years because their bodies still change, they try to gain muscle, adapt to their new country/city etc while they are also playing basketball. Giannis passed those years, Wemby is dealing with the same right now and a million other players also do.

And it's not just that. Embiid has never played more than 68 games in his career. Had countless periods of minute restriction, skipped most of the b2bs in his way etc.

I'd say that it's more impressive. Scoring that much with minute restrictions. He did this in spite of 2 red shirt years. Do you know how hard it is to get in shape when your foot is broken?

Funny you talk about Embiid missing back to backs when Giannis has missed more the last 2-3 years and more games as well.

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Giannis is 1 year younger than Embiid and he played nearly double the games so far.
You think its more impressive to score when you know you will be subbed out after your 25-30th minute or that you will skip tomorrows game?
You can basically give everything you got in those minutes and not worry about heavy legs in the 4th quarter or in the b2b.

Also that's not even the biggest reason for Embiid's high career PPG. It's as I've said the 2-3 seasons he skipped while he was still a kid.

Giannis averaged 7 PPG on his 77 games he played as a rookie, away from his family looking like this. He was 3-4 inches shorter and basically a skeleton.



Kobe also averaged 7 PPG as a 18y rookie. 15 PPG as a sophomore. Those seasons still count to your career PPG and the fastest to 10k etc.

Embiid was more NBA ready out of Kentucky than Giannis and Kobe were when they were rookies. If he wasn't red shirting he would have gone number one. Probably would average 18 to 20 ppg.

You realize Embiid averaged 20 ppg in limited minutes as a rookie.

You really don't have much of a leg to stand on with this claim man.

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[greekbuck34]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

You have dozen of other ways to prove that Jokic is better than Embiid and Giannis. Defense is not one.
Coach Malone's system along with KCP and AG(Brown also last season) are the biggest reasons Nuggets can play good defense with Jokic as the rim protecting center.

[LordCovington33]

These posts about the highest career PPG or fastest to 10k points are ridiculous without context.
Embiid basically skipped his first 3 seasons and started his career with his body fully grown up and himself fully adjusted to USA, Philly and the NBA.
Other 18y future superstars struggle in their rookie and sophomore years because their bodies still change, they try to gain muscle, adapt to their new country/city etc while they are also playing basketball. Giannis passed those years, Wemby is dealing with the same right now and a million other players also do.

And it's not just that. Embiid has never played more than 68 games in his career. Had countless periods of minute restriction, skipped most of the b2bs in his way etc.

Embiid missed his first two seasons. That said, if he is the fastest to reach that for all eras, that is very impressive.
You say he had a man’s body. So? How about the players from the 80s, 70s and earlier. During that time, most players entered the league having played 3-4 seasons of college basketball. Players like MJ and Larry Bird were not teenagers. MJ was 21 when drafted, Kareem was 22 and Wilt was 23, while Bird was 22 when he played his first game. Yes, he was older than the players today, but he was still roughly the same age as players from the other eras.

[_NoMas]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

You have dozen of other ways to prove that Jokic is better than Embiid and Giannis. Defense is not one.
Coach Malone's system along with KCP and AG(Brown also last season) are the biggest reasons Nuggets can play good defense with Jokic as the rim protecting center.

Let me just be clear btw, I don’t think Jokic is a better defender (or even close to) then Giannis or Embiid. Just pointing out that he’s not the liability some paint him out to be. He’s fairly solid, and I think he steps it up a gear in the post season too

[bigboi]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

Guess Giannis and Embiid are better offensively since both bucks and 6ers have better offenses than Denver by significant margin

[eyeatoma]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

Guess Giannis and Embiid are better offensively since both bucks and 6ers have better offenses than Denver by significant margin

Hahahaha well said.

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[bigboi]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

You have dozen of other ways to prove that Jokic is better than Embiid and Giannis. Defense is not one.
Coach Malone's system along with KCP and AG(Brown also last season) are the biggest reasons Nuggets can play good defense with Jokic as the rim protecting center.

Let me just be clear btw, I don’t think Jokic is a better defender (or even close to) then Giannis or Embiid. Just pointing out that he’s not the liability some paint him out to be. He’s fairly solid, and I think he steps it up a gear in the post season too

Again you clearly don’t watch the games if you think Jokic is solid at defense

[iggymcfrack]

Read on Twitter

He’s an incredible scorer but let’s not get it twisted. There is no bias against Embiid, people don’t like him because he’s a flopper, foul baiter and his game is ugly.

People don't like him because of Jokic (they think every player should play like him, be a point center. Jokic is 1 of 1, in NBA histoyr. He's an incredble player, probably a future top 10 player, the biggest problem has been the comparisons. They're not the same player and shouldn't be, that would be boring). I get the flopping can be excessive, and I wish social media didn't view his flopping in a vacuum. His game is actually not ugly. He earns the majority of his calls, and he plays like MJ/Kobe/Durant/Carmelo/Dirk (hell you even see it in that tweet, that is the majority of his game) from the mid range, which is one of the most aesthetic playing styles there is. He is also a tremendous post player. Had a wonderful dream shake today. Not sure how you can say his game is ugly. I guess the foul baiting is ugly, but then why blame him, and not the league? Again, it's a fraction of his game. Yet it's magnified 1000x on social media.

The refs and the NBA...They;'re the ones that reward it. Put a clamp on it, if it's not good for the game. But, if you do that, you also need to put a clamp on the unmitigated disaster defense has been. The league made it impossible to defend a player, and offense has reigned supreme. Embiid would be valuable on offense and on defense.

Nah, I’m a fan of a lot of centers in the league right now. Jokic sure, but also Sengun, Mark Williams, Sabonis, Chet, there are a ton of guys that are just a joy to watch at the center position right now. Not Embiid though. He draws more free throws on bull nothing contact than anyone in the league. It’s like half his offensive game. He really is terrible to watch. The only thing I can compare it to is peak Harden when he just got gifted free throws every time he moved.

[LordCovington33]

DeAaron Fox


Yeah I said it!

You sure did

[_NoMas]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

Guess Giannis and Embiid are better offensively since both bucks and 6ers have better offenses than Denver by significant margin

That would be a great point, if I’d argued Jokic was a better defender then Giannis and Embiid. I didn’t, merely that he’s not the liability you think he is

[greekbuck34]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

Guess Giannis and Embiid are better offensively since both bucks and 6ers have better offenses than Denver by significant margin

That would be a great point, if I’d argued Jokic was a better defender then Giannis and Embiid. I didn’t, merely that he’s not the liability you think he is

I agree. Jokic is not a liability anymore since the last playoffs. But in order to hide someones disadvantage(slow legs, zero verticality and rim protection) you need a good coaching defensive system, the proper roster around the player and chemistry of years. Those are the reasons Jokic and the Nuggets have better defensive rating than Embiid and Giannis.

Their starting 5 is the same, the coach is the same and their system is the same. Both the Sixers and especially the Bucks changed so much during the off season. Good overall team defense is not guaranteed even if you have 1-2 DPOY players on the roster. You need time.

[Mavrelous]

For the usual suspects hating on Luka, and claim he was stat padding, they are right, he did chase the last rebound and assist in the 1st half to record a 1st half TD, however, once the game was over in the 3rd quarter, neither Luka nor Kyrie entered the game, the substituion pattern was for Luka to sit out the 1st part of the 4th and come back according to need, and Kyrie carries the team, since the game was over, neither Luka nor Kyrie played a single minute in the 4th, Mavs were also missing their 1st guard off the bench, Green and their other bench guard, THJ, had to play limited minutes due to back spasm, also Grant Williams was missing with knee soreness.
Mavs managed to extend the lead from 35 to 50 w/o either Luka or Kyrie.

[Special_Puppy]

SGA ahead of Jokic in EPM now. Still behind Jokic in EPM WAR though since the Thunder have played 2 fewer games