NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Cubbies2120]

You really can’t be serious…do I have to break this one to you? Well let’s by ido it.

I’ll start by saying The Jokers only defensive advantage is his size. Jokic is absolutely terrible protecting the rim. He is a 7 footer who can’t alter shots consistently and he can’t even muster up even 1 BPG. Not to mention he is a below average one on one defender. But it doesn’t stop there.

Jokic is also extremely slow, his transition defense is nonexistent. I can’t think of a single instance where Jokic made a great defensive play in transition, not sure if he’s ever had a chase down block or a run down steal. To take this even further he CAN’T defend in space because he is horribly limited when it comes to lateral quickness which makes him an iso liability. On top of all of this he is also significantly inefficient defending the PnR. Just his inability alone to defend the PnR makes him a bad defender.

All of these defensive deficiencies makes The Joker a Joke of a defender.

What was Jokic pnr defense in the playoffs? You know when the games mattered? If he was so terrible on defense then why didn’t he get exploited in the playoffs last season??. Or let me guess you didn’t bother to watch the playoffs past the second round.

Brother I’m not gonna explain this to you. I watch almost every game that is nationally televised just as I watched Jokic suck it up last night on espn. I watched almost every playoff game last season. There are even TV’s at my job so I can watch the games there.

Instead of me explaining to you why Jokic is a terrible defender just go on YouTube and type in “Jokic bad defense” you will find about a thousand videos of Jokic getting Cooked on defense. There are literally hundreds of videos some even 10 minutes long. I just don’t know how to get this through your scull, Jokic is a poor defender it just is what it is.

So compilations of the worst aspect of someone's game tell the story? Can you find me a compilation of his bad defense in the playoffs last year? Or do you put together 100 plays over the course of 20,000 plays of a players career to spin a narrative maybe? Idk, I'm just asking the question.

Let's follow a logical exercise really quickly:
1. A block stops a shot from going in 99.9% of the time (there's 0.1% chance of it going in still, roughly) - Yes or no?
Good, glad you agree!
2. Not taking a shot means you cannot score a point. Agree? You have to take a shot, whether it's a FGA or FTA? I agree, do you agree?
3. Taking the ball out of play ensures that a shot is not taken. So when a player is back-cutting, and you kick the ball - that stops a high percentage move (layup). Agree or disagree? Well, it's not a statistic, but it acts like a block where the other team recovers ball, because it stopped a shot attempt. A shot attempt is required to make a point. Who led the league in deflections? Who has more game-winning or game-saving blocks (highest leverage play on defense, the most crucial time) in the past 3 years?

I'm just asking the questions, I'm not gonna preach to you. I know the answer, but I want to bring you along the journey

Re: Using compilations of a specific type of play...do you understand how data and databases work? I'd love to educate you, if you say you'd like to learn

You know someone could put together a compilation of all the missed free throws Embiid has, or lets say just 10% of all his career missed free throws, put together a compilation, and make it 20 minutes long? Then you'd be able to type in Embiid [pick whatever bad attribute] and it would be a nice long video?

Just because someone hasn't spent precious time of their life to do that, doesn't mean it can't be done. Makes you wonder why someone is spending time making compilations like that, eh? When you could do the same thing for every player.

I'd say results matter the most, and when your result is accomplishing the ultimate goal (championship as a team)...well, it's better than the words ("I WANT to win a championship"), because hey, actions speak louder than words IMO. But that's just me

[Jamaaliver]

Unreal.

My pick for MVP, right here!!!

Read on Twitter

[Hobo4President]

Embiid stans are iconic. Go from saying they're done with him after he again underperforms in the playoffs and then back to calling him the best player in the world the next regular season. When the 76ers fizzle out in the playoffs again the same thing will happen.

Anti Embiid fans are iconic in ignoring the fact that Embiid has been injured in each season's playoffs except for one, and had to deal with Doc Rivers, Ben Simmons, and James Harden.

One has the biggest playoff choking record of all time (Doc) , the other forgot how to shoot (Ben), and the last refuses to shoot and has made a career of coming up small (Harden).

As I've said before I put maybe 35 to 40% of the blame on Embiid, but to completely ignore these things, and also ignore the fact that many of these injuries would have had Embiid or any player for that matter out for weeks or months is essentially tone deaf.

That's all well and good, I'm not blaming Embiid for losing or for his teammates/coach. The problem is Embiid consistently shows he does not have the same output in the post season that he does in the regular season. It'll be interesting to see if this is the year he can finally have a similar impact in the playoffs but I doubt it, and I won't be surprised if you again say you're done with him.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid stans are iconic. Go from saying they're done with him after he again underperforms in the playoffs and then back to calling him the best player in the world the next regular season. When the 76ers fizzle out in the playoffs again the same thing will happen.

Anti Embiid fans are iconic in ignoring the fact that Embiid has been injured in each season's playoffs except for one, and had to deal with Doc Rivers, Ben Simmons, and James Harden.

One has the biggest playoff choking record of all time (Doc) , the other forgot how to shoot (Ben), and the last refuses to shoot and has made a career of coming up small (Harden).

As I've said before I put maybe 35 to 40% of the blame on Embiid, but to completely ignore these things, and also ignore the fact that many of these injuries would have had Embiid or any player for that matter out for weeks or months is essentially tone deaf.

That's all well and good, I'm not blaming Embiid for losing or for his teammates/coach. The problem is Embiid consistently shows he does not have the same output in the post season that he does in the regular season. It'll be interesting to see if this is the year he can finally have a similar impact in the playoffs but I doubt it, and I won't be surprised if you again say you're done with him.

You say that's all well and good, but then go on to say the same thing lol.

If Embiid is not hurt, and he has a different coach, and he has co stars that will shoot and not choke they will get past the 2nd round. None of those conditions have ever been simultaneously.

This isn't that hard to get.

I've also said in the past, if all of the conditions do happen,and he still loses, then yeah, he's not that amazing. Will go down as a great regular season player and that will be it.

[eyeatoma]

Unreal.

My pick for MVP, right here!!!

Read on Twitter

Pacers need to make a trade. They're ready now, if they can get another star.

[EmpireFalls]

I think the Pels got this.

[iggymcfrack]

Unreal.

My pick for MVP, right here!!!

Read on Twitter

Pacers need to make a trade. They're ready now, if they can get another star.

They'd have to be really careful who they bring in. This team has incredible chemistry right now. They're on a roll. Honestly, I'd kinda wanna see what they can do in a playoff run before I start disrupting things unless something comes up that's just a slam dunk.

[iggymcfrack]

Unreal.

My pick for MVP, right here!!!

Read on Twitter

Seriously, my head says that Jokic should win the MVP easily and that SGA deserves to be number 2, but my heart....

My heart man.... it believes with every ounce of blood that the real MVP is Tyrese Haliburton.

[AleksandarN]

Anti Embiid fans are iconic in ignoring the fact that Embiid has been injured in each season's playoffs except for one, and had to deal with Doc Rivers, Ben Simmons, and James Harden.

One has the biggest playoff choking record of all time (Doc) , the other forgot how to shoot (Ben), and the last refuses to shoot and has made a career of coming up small (Harden).

As I've said before I put maybe 35 to 40% of the blame on Embiid, but to completely ignore these things, and also ignore the fact that many of these injuries would have had Embiid or any player for that matter out for weeks or months is essentially tone deaf.

That's all well and good, I'm not blaming Embiid for losing or for his teammates/coach. The problem is Embiid consistently shows he does not have the same output in the post season that he does in the regular season. It'll be interesting to see if this is the year he can finally have a similar impact in the playoffs but I doubt it, and I won't be surprised if you again say you're done with him.

You say that's all well and good, but then go on to say the same thing lol.

If Embiid is not hurt, and he has a different coach, and he has co stars that will shoot and not choke they will get past the 2nd round. None of those conditions have ever been simultaneously.

This isn't that hard to get.

I've also said in the past, if all of the conditions do happen,and he still loses, then yeah, he's not that amazing. Will go down as a great regular season player and that will be it.

Embiid did have Jimmy Bulter in his prime and they didn’t make it past the second round

[Hobo4President]

Anti Embiid fans are iconic in ignoring the fact that Embiid has been injured in each season's playoffs except for one, and had to deal with Doc Rivers, Ben Simmons, and James Harden.

One has the biggest playoff choking record of all time (Doc) , the other forgot how to shoot (Ben), and the last refuses to shoot and has made a career of coming up small (Harden).

As I've said before I put maybe 35 to 40% of the blame on Embiid, but to completely ignore these things, and also ignore the fact that many of these injuries would have had Embiid or any player for that matter out for weeks or months is essentially tone deaf.

That's all well and good, I'm not blaming Embiid for losing or for his teammates/coach. The problem is Embiid consistently shows he does not have the same output in the post season that he does in the regular season. It'll be interesting to see if this is the year he can finally have a similar impact in the playoffs but I doubt it, and I won't be surprised if you again say you're done with him.

You say that's all well and good, but then go on to say the same thing lol.

If Embiid is not hurt, and he has a different coach, and he has co stars that will shoot and not choke they will get past the 2nd round. None of those conditions have ever been meet all at once.

This isn't that hard to get.

I've also said in the past, if all of the conditions do happen,and he still loses, then yeah, he's not that amazing. Will go down as a great regular season player and that will be it.

Yeah I'm saying that's all well and good because while I acknowledge he has had teammates that underperform or are more to blame for losing I don't think it's completely to explain his own performance. We've seen other superstars with worse supporting casts have insane impact in the post season before. The fact his scoring and efficiency both plummet isn't a good sign, typically the superstars on bad teams will have a dip in efficiency but will have a lift in their USG% and scoring.

[AleksandarN]

Unreal.

My pick for MVP, right here!!!

Read on Twitter

He is playing great!

[AleksandarN]

Unreal.

My pick for MVP, right here!!!

Read on Twitter

Pacers need to make a trade. They're ready now, if they can get another star.

They'd have to be really careful who they bring in. This team has incredible chemistry right now. They're on a roll. Honestly, I'd kinda wanna see what they can do in a playoff run before I start disrupting things unless something comes up that's just a slam dunk.

Bruce Brown is clutch in high pressure situations. Works well with Tyrese

[Chokic]

Current mvp race

1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Hali
5. Luka

[CptCrunch]

Haliburton has legendary ball security. He is pulling prime Chris Paul while being a more creative and ambitious passser.

[LordCovington33]

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Can you set parameters for "recent memory" please? Or are you purposely vague?

Can you set parameters for MVP candidate, or was that purposely vague?

Your recent memory, and your criteria of MVP candidate may be different than mine.

By leaving it vague, you let the viewer decide what you mean. I could interpret it as "Recent memory = 2 weeks, yep you're right!", or it could be interpreted by someone as "Recent memory = 10 years, whoa Jokic REALLY had a bad game".

So, you made an argument, I'm just asking for the two criteria you used, you can answer it in a simple format too!

"Recent memory = last season + this"
"MVP Candidates = Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic"

Cause then I can filter and find some real stinkers for ya But if it's just two weeks, yeah, Jokic had the worst!

Hey LordCovington, I realize you're a busy guy - we all have lives outside of realgm, work, family, etc.

I just wanted to check in, you made a pretty bold claim, I'd just like to define what parameters we're using for "Recent memory" and "MVP candidates". We gotta hold each other accountable (I had an epiphany last week, long story short, I'm trying to apply that to every aspect of life). I apologize for my angry posting sometimes, Embiid and Jokic are both incredible players.

I'd love to foster a healthy debate, looking at both sides. Jokic has had some stinker games, Embiid has had some stinker games - it happens, we're human. I'll make an attempt to do better too, and you can quote me when you see me going down the rabbit hole of putting down one player instead of considering other arguments.

Hope you're open to the same

Recent memory is just a figure of speech, but if you wish to give it a parameter (lol), then make it these last two seasons. Point to me a game where giannis or embiid (the only other two legit mvp contenders) put up a worse shooting night. A night where you have shot less than 30% on that similar volume of shooting (30 shots plus). Jokic was actually 28% on 32, but I feel neither of those other two would have even shot 30 or more and made less than 10 of them. I can’t recall either of them chucking at such volume (30 or more!!!), shooting their team out of the game.

[Woodsanity]

Haliburton moving up big time.

[Cubbies2120]

Can you set parameters for "recent memory" please? Or are you purposely vague?

Can you set parameters for MVP candidate, or was that purposely vague?

Your recent memory, and your criteria of MVP candidate may be different than mine.

By leaving it vague, you let the viewer decide what you mean. I could interpret it as "Recent memory = 2 weeks, yep you're right!", or it could be interpreted by someone as "Recent memory = 10 years, whoa Jokic REALLY had a bad game".

So, you made an argument, I'm just asking for the two criteria you used, you can answer it in a simple format too!

"Recent memory = last season + this"
"MVP Candidates = Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic"

Cause then I can filter and find some real stinkers for ya But if it's just two weeks, yeah, Jokic had the worst!

Hey LordCovington, I realize you're a busy guy - we all have lives outside of realgm, work, family, etc.

I just wanted to check in, you made a pretty bold claim, I'd just like to define what parameters we're using for "Recent memory" and "MVP candidates". We gotta hold each other accountable (I had an epiphany last week, long story short, I'm trying to apply that to every aspect of life). I apologize for my angry posting sometimes, Embiid and Jokic are both incredible players.

I'd love to foster a healthy debate, looking at both sides. Jokic has had some stinker games, Embiid has had some stinker games - it happens, we're human. I'll make an attempt to do better too, and you can quote me when you see me going down the rabbit hole of putting down one player instead of considering other arguments.

Hope you're open to the same

Recent memory is just a figure of speech, but if you wish to give it a parameter (lol), then make it these last two seasons. Point to me a game where giannis or embiid (the only other two legit mvp contenders) put up a worse shooting night. A night where you have shot less than 30% on that similar volume of shooting (30 shots plus). Jokic was actually 28% on 32, but I feel neither of those other two would have even shot 30 or more and made less than 10 of them. I can’t recall either of them chucking at such volume (30 or more!!!), shooting their team out of the game.

Thankfully he got the stinker out the way in the regular season

But last year I think he only had 4 games all year where he shot under 50%, so we’ll just chalk up last night to a tantrum and self pity party lol

[LordCovington33]

Hey LordCovington, I realize you're a busy guy - we all have lives outside of realgm, work, family, etc.

I just wanted to check in, you made a pretty bold claim, I'd just like to define what parameters we're using for "Recent memory" and "MVP candidates". We gotta hold each other accountable (I had an epiphany last week, long story short, I'm trying to apply that to every aspect of life). I apologize for my angry posting sometimes, Embiid and Jokic are both incredible players.

I'd love to foster a healthy debate, looking at both sides. Jokic has had some stinker games, Embiid has had some stinker games - it happens, we're human. I'll make an attempt to do better too, and you can quote me when you see me going down the rabbit hole of putting down one player instead of considering other arguments.

Hope you're open to the same

Recent memory is just a figure of speech, but if you wish to give it a parameter (lol), then make it these last two seasons. Point to me a game where giannis or embiid (the only other two legit mvp contenders) put up a worse shooting night. A night where you have shot less than 30% on that similar volume of shooting (30 shots plus). Jokic was actually 28% on 32, but I feel neither of those other two would have even shot 30 or more and made less than 10 of them. I can’t recall either of them chucking at such volume (30 or more!!!), shooting their team out of the game.

Thankfully he got the stinker out the way in the regular season

But last year I think he only had 4 games all year where he shot under 50%, so we’ll just chalk up last night to a tantrum and self pity party lol

This year also 4 I think, which is still low. Last year was different. He didn’t take too many shots. He’s taking about 6 shots more per game this year, and shooting efficiency has dropped.

[eyeatoma]

That's all well and good, I'm not blaming Embiid for losing or for his teammates/coach. The problem is Embiid consistently shows he does not have the same output in the post season that he does in the regular season. It'll be interesting to see if this is the year he can finally have a similar impact in the playoffs but I doubt it, and I won't be surprised if you again say you're done with him.

You say that's all well and good, but then go on to say the same thing lol.

If Embiid is not hurt, and he has a different coach, and he has co stars that will shoot and not choke they will get past the 2nd round. None of those conditions have ever been simultaneously.

This isn't that hard to get.

I've also said in the past, if all of the conditions do happen,and he still loses, then yeah, he's not that amazing. Will go down as a great regular season player and that will be it.

Embiid did have Jimmy Bulter in his prime and they didn’t make it past the second round

He had Jimmy Butler for not even half a season, and we still had shrinking Ben Simmons, idiot Brett Brown,and Embiid was ill. All of that, and it took one of the greatest miracles in NBA history to win the game. But yeah, lets blame Embiid for that lol.

[eyeatoma]

That's all well and good, I'm not blaming Embiid for losing or for his teammates/coach. The problem is Embiid consistently shows he does not have the same output in the post season that he does in the regular season. It'll be interesting to see if this is the year he can finally have a similar impact in the playoffs but I doubt it, and I won't be surprised if you again say you're done with him.

You say that's all well and good, but then go on to say the same thing lol.

If Embiid is not hurt, and he has a different coach, and he has co stars that will shoot and not choke they will get past the 2nd round. None of those conditions have ever been meet all at once.

This isn't that hard to get.

I've also said in the past, if all of the conditions do happen,and he still loses, then yeah, he's not that amazing. Will go down as a great regular season player and that will be it.

Yeah I'm saying that's all well and good because while I acknowledge he has had teammates that underperform or are more to blame for losing I don't think it's completely to explain his own performance. We've seen other superstars with worse supporting casts have insane impact in the post season before. The fact his scoring and efficiency both plummet isn't a good sign, typically the superstars on bad teams will have a dip in efficiency but will have a lift in their USG% and scoring.

Were those superstar players constantly injured during the playoffs?