Hornets Lineup Talk

[JMAC3]

Hornets EPM #s (in order of defensive epm)
Nick Richards Off -1.0 Def 0.0
Miles Bridges Off 0.0 Def -0.1
Terry Rozier Off +1.7 Def -0.3
Bryce Off -2.3 Def -0.3
Gordon Hayward Off -1.3 Def -0.7
Mark Williams Off +2.4 Def -0.8
Nick Smith Jr Off -1.6 Def -0.9
JT Thor Off -3.9 Def -0.9
Ish Smith Off -4.7 and Def -1.2
LaMelo Ball Off +4.0 Def -1.2
Brandon Miller Off -1.0 Def -1.4
PJ Washington Off -1.1 Def -1.4
Theo Maledon Off -4.8 Def -2.1


Order of total EPM
LaMelo +2.8 36th best in NBA
Mark +1.6
Terry +1.4
Miles -0.2
Richards -1
Gordon -1.9
Miller -2.3
NSj -2.5
PJ -2.6
Bryce -2.7
JT Thor -4.8 30th worst in NBA
Ish -5.8 9th worst in NBA
Theo -6.9 2nd to last in NBA

Former Hornet shoutouts
Shoutout Jalen McDaniels as 5th worst in NBA -6.5 epm
Svi 28th worst at -5
Plumlee 31st worst at -4.8
Caleb Martin 44th worst at -4.4
Dennis Smith -2.6
Biyombo -1
Monk -0.6
Oubre +0.4

[JMAC3]

In order by Net Rating

Mark Williams Net Rating -0.8 Off Rating 115.5 Def Rating 116.3
Terry Rozier Net Rating -4.7 Off Rating 116.9 Def Rating 121.6
Brandon Miller Net Rating -5.5 Off Rating 112.8Def Rating 118.2
Gordon Hayward Net Rating -7.7 Off Rating 113.6 Def Rating 121.3
Miles Bridges Net Rating -7.7 Off Rating 109.5 Def Rating 117.2
LaMelo Ball Net Rating -8.2 Off Rating 111 Def Rating 119.2
JT Thor Net Rating -9.1 Off Rating 109.4 Def Rating 118.5
Bryce McGowens Net Rating -10.2 Off Rating 108.4 Def Rating 118.6
Pj Washington Net Rating -12.1 Off Rating112.2 Def Rating 124.3
Theo Maledon Net Rating -13.2 Off Rating 110.6 Def Rating 123.8
Nick Richards Net Rating -13.5 Off Rating 103.4 Def Rating 116.9
Ish Smith Net Rating -17 Off Rating 101.1 Def Rating 118.1

Left out Nsj, Bouk, Black and Bailey for too few of mins.

[yosemiteben]

I've never heard of EPM, don't know what that is

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[JMAC3]

I've never heard of EPM, don't know what that is

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Estimated +/-.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

[amcoolio]

Hornets EPM #s (in order of defensive epm)
Nick Richards Off -1.0 Def 0.0
Miles Bridges Off 0.0 Def -0.1
Terry Rozier Off +1.7 Def -0.3
Bryce Off -2.3 Def -0.3
Gordon Hayward Off -1.3 Def -0.7
Mark Williams Off +2.4 Def -0.8
Nick Smith Jr Off -1.6 Def -0.9
JT Thor Off -3.9 Def -0.9
Ish Smith Off -4.7 and Def -1.2
LaMelo Ball Off +4.0 Def -1.2
Brandon Miller Off -1.0 Def -1.4
PJ Washington Off -1.1 Def -1.4
Theo Maledon Off -4.8 Def -2.1


Order of total EPM
LaMelo +2.8 36th best in NBA
Mark +1.6
Terry +1.4
Miles -0.2
Richards -1
Gordon -1.9
Miller -2.3
NSj -2.5
PJ -2.6
Bryce -2.7
JT Thor -4.8 30th worst in NBA
Ish -5.8 9th worst in NBA
Theo -6.9 2nd to last in NBA

Former Hornet shoutouts
Shoutout Jalen McDaniels as 5th worst in NBA -6.5 epm
Svi 28th worst at -5
Plumlee 31st worst at -4.8
Caleb Martin 44th worst at -4.4
Dennis Smith -2.6
Biyombo -1
Monk -0.6
Oubre +0.4

Yeah PJ passes the eye test of being absolute crap on both ends of the floor, should have traded him when we had the chance. He stinks

[Rich4114]

Hornets EPM #s (in order of defensive epm)
Nick Richards Off -1.0 Def 0.0
Miles Bridges Off 0.0 Def -0.1
Terry Rozier Off +1.7 Def -0.3
Bryce Off -2.3 Def -0.3
Gordon Hayward Off -1.3 Def -0.7
Mark Williams Off +2.4 Def -0.8
Nick Smith Jr Off -1.6 Def -0.9
JT Thor Off -3.9 Def -0.9
Ish Smith Off -4.7 and Def -1.2
LaMelo Ball Off +4.0 Def -1.2
Brandon Miller Off -1.0 Def -1.4
PJ Washington Off -1.1 Def -1.4
Theo Maledon Off -4.8 Def -2.1


Order of total EPM
LaMelo +2.8 36th best in NBA
Mark +1.6
Terry +1.4
Miles -0.2
Richards -1
Gordon -1.9
Miller -2.3
NSj -2.5
PJ -2.6
Bryce -2.7
JT Thor -4.8 30th worst in NBA
Ish -5.8 9th worst in NBA
Theo -6.9 2nd to last in NBA

Former Hornet shoutouts
Shoutout Jalen McDaniels as 5th worst in NBA -6.5 epm
Svi 28th worst at -5
Plumlee 31st worst at -4.8
Caleb Martin 44th worst at -4.4
Dennis Smith -2.6
Biyombo -1
Monk -0.6
Oubre +0.4

Yeah PJ passes the eye test of being absolute crap on both ends of the floor, should have traded him when we had the chance. He stinks

First few weeks of the season, he looked like a bargain. Mostly because he was aggressive with those in the paint floaters and moves plus he was hitting his threes. Since the Dallas game he has mostly been ****.

[JMAC3]

When we had just LaMelo, PJ and Hayward during that stretch with no Rozier, Miles and before Miller was so involved PJ was getting a lot of offense ran for him. His outside shooting was actually pretty bad during that stretch, but Melo had him rolling in the PnR with the short floaters and he was even getting his bully ball on. Since we have gotten healthier his touches and confidence are gone.

Clifford needs to do a better job of running offense for him in the 2nd unit. Also, I think when he plays the small ball 5 he actually hangs on the perimeter even more than he does when playing with a true center if that makes sense. Now that Nick is back maybe PJ can get comfortable again.

[JMAC3]

When I first created this thread I thought it would be fun to look at which 3,4,5 man units were playing the best and see if that aligns with Cliffords rotations. The sad part is that isn't even an option. It feels like our lineups are fully devised on who is and isn't healthy. Especially the starting lineup.

Game Combos for these guys.
Miles, Ball, Rozier- 1 game played together.
Ball, Rozier- 5 games played together
Ball, Miles- 5 games played together.

If you look by NBA offensive playtype.
We lead the NBA in PnR utilization.
2nd to last in Iso's.
Bottom 5 in post ups.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/ball-handler?dir=D&sort=POSS_PCT

[Rich4114]

When I first created this thread I thought it would be fun to look at which 3,4,5 man units were playing the best and see if that aligns with Cliffords rotations. The sad part is that isn't even an option. It feels like our lineups are fully devised on who is and isn't healthy. Especially the starting lineup.

Game Combos for these guys.
Miles, Ball, Rozier- 1 game played together.
Ball, Rozier- 5 games played together
Ball, Miles- 5 games played together.

If you look by NBA offensive playtype.
We lead the NBA in PnR utilization.
2nd to last in Iso's.
Bottom 5 in post ups.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/ball-handler?dir=D&sort=POSS_PCT

It's the Clifford special. It's how he unlocked Kemba, which made us completely one dimensional after Alfense. It doesn't work for this group. I mean it works for LaMelo, but it doesn't work for this group and Zeller was the best screen setter in franchise history. We don't have good screen setters now.

[JMAC3]

When I first created this thread I thought it would be fun to look at which 3,4,5 man units were playing the best and see if that aligns with Cliffords rotations. The sad part is that isn't even an option. It feels like our lineups are fully devised on who is and isn't healthy. Especially the starting lineup.

Game Combos for these guys.
Miles, Ball, Rozier- 1 game played together.
Ball, Rozier- 5 games played together
Ball, Miles- 5 games played together.

If you look by NBA offensive playtype.
We lead the NBA in PnR utilization.
2nd to last in Iso's.
Bottom 5 in post ups.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/ball-handler?dir=D&sort=POSS_PCT

It's the Clifford special. It's how he unlocked Kemba, which made us completely one dimensional after Alfense. It doesn't work for this group. I mean it works for LaMelo, but it doesn't work for this group and Zeller was the best screen setter in franchise history. We don't have good screen setters now.

Hard to argue it isn't working for LaMelo. or Brandon Miller. or Mark Wiliams.

Would be cool if Miles, Melo and Terry played more than 1 game together.

[fatlever]

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130 drtg with pj at center

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[HornetJail]

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130 drtg with pj at center

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we always hemorrhaged points on defense when Borrego went to small ball, but our offense was actually good. Clifford's offense doesn't benefit from it either because it's stagnant garbage, that's the difference. Also we have bad backup PGs instead of good ones so the entire offense dies when LaMelo sits.

[JMAC3]

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130 drtg with pj at center

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we always hemorrhaged points on defense when Borrego went to small ball, but our offense was actually good. Clifford's offense doesn't benefit from it either because it's stagnant garbage, that's the difference. Also we have bad backup PGs instead of good ones so the entire offense dies when LaMelo sits.

Backup pointguard when Borrego was here was.... Ish Smith. and 17 whole games of Isiah Thomas. Difference was Borrego had 75+ games of Ball, Terry and Miles. This year we have had 1. It is not rocket science.

[HornetJail]

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130 drtg with pj at center

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we always hemorrhaged points on defense when Borrego went to small ball, but our offense was actually good. Clifford's offense doesn't benefit from it either because it's stagnant garbage, that's the difference. Also we have bad backup PGs instead of good ones so the entire offense dies when LaMelo sits.

Backup pointguard when Borrego was here was.... Ish Smith. and 17 whole games of Isiah Thomas. Difference was Borrego had 75+ games of Ball, Terry and Miles. This year we have had 1. It is not rocket science.

true, but mostly thinking about the previous year where we had both Graham and Monk in the backup backcourt, we weren't forcing a non-PG to play PG (Terry), and a functioning offensive system in place.

[Rich4114]

What frustrates me so much is if you look back on when this team was most successful back in the 15-16 season, it had A LOT to do with the fact that we had Jeremy Lin as backup PG coming in to continue to pressure defenses at the rim all night. Considering the success that showed, it's even more preposterous that this franchise has continued to blatantly ignore backup PG with someone of quality. There are guys out there, available for trade right now. We could've also made more aggressive moves in free agency. But our GM doesn't seem to see it that way.

[Diop]

while Dallas went seeking an improvement at backup point guard, we picked up their scraps from the trash and said "that'll do".

[luciano-davidwesley]

What is obvious is this team lacks depth and needs players off the bench that can score and initiate an offense.

[fatlever]

Seriously, what the f*** are we doing with our big man rotation? Find another center. Thor is just a waste of space. Stop giving that dude minutes. Certainly there's a center in the G League somewhere that we can sign or some unsigned veteran free agent out there.

Mitch has just been awful at putting together a functional roster.

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[JDR720]

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Nate the Great to the rescue.

[SWedd523]

@fats