NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Cubbies2120]

I feel like I want to see Embiid have one run were everything falls into place. That will be my final indicator on who is the best. If Embiid can't do it, then then I will 100% concede Jokic is better, until I guess Embiid finally does it, but even then, you have to take Jokic's consistency into consideration.

But it's hard with Embiid because so much of his past has been fraught with injury while Jokic's past prior to winning a chip, although not tremendous in success, was incredible in individual performance.

You're waiting for that 'Dirk' run, basically - where a guy who was considered top 5 for a long time, had it all fall into place and beat the 'best team' (on paper, and in reality too...but he overcame with a team who played like a TEAM)? Reasonable.

[eyeatoma]

I feel like I want to see Embiid have one run were everything falls into place. That will be my final indicator on who is the best. If Embiid can't do it, then then I will 100% concede Jokic is better, until I guess Embiid finally does it, but even then, you have to take Jokic's consistency into consideration.

But it's hard with Embiid because so much of his past has been fraught with injury while Jokic's past prior to winning a chip, although not tremendous in success, was incredible in individual performance.

You're waiting for that 'Dirk' run, basically - where a guy who was considered top 5 for a long time, had it all fall into place and beat the 'best team' (on paper, and in reality too...but he overcame with a team who played like a TEAM)? Reasonable.

Pretty much haha

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[Mavrelous]

I feel like I want to see Embiid have one run were everything falls into place. That will be my final indicator on who is the best. If Embiid can't do it, then then I will 100% concede Jokic is better, until I guess Embiid finally does it, but even then, you have to take Jokic's consistency into consideration.

But it's hard with Embiid because so much of his past has been fraught with injury while Jokic's past prior to winning a chip, although not tremendous in success, was incredible in individual performance.

You're waiting for that 'Dirk' run, basically - where a guy who was considered top 5 for a long time, had it all fall into place and beat the 'best team' (on paper, and in reality too...but he overcame with a team who played like a TEAM)? Reasonable.

Dirk had his 2006 finals run before it, Embiid doesn't have that on his resume, and even with it, the 2007 MVP, and the 2011 title, Dirk was never thought of as the best player in the league, ever, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, LBJ were always considered better, and are all ranked ahead of him in all time listings.
I understand Eyetoma's reluctance to concede Jokic is a better player, he is a fan, and that's what fans should do, I myself emotionally at least placed Dirk ahead of players he's behind by almost unanimous consensus, and I do the same for Luka now, but if we're talking rationally, and according to almost unanimous consensus, Embiid isn't in Jokic tier.

[CharityStripe34]

Kind of amusing that the Jokic/Embiid discussion is like the RGM ratings equivalent of Rock/HHH from the WWF. Now we just need to figure out who's Stephanie, Shane and Vince in this analogy.

[Wolfgang630]

The competition is becoming tougher to win a championship. For Embiid alone, if everything holds, there’s Boston, Milwaukee and Miami. Now, enters Orlando and Indiana. You would want Boston to face Miami or Orlando since those teams have Bostons number.

[AleksandarN]

Not every team is amazing at pick and rolls. It could easily come down to coaching scheme as well.

He said jokic was terrible on defense. So you agree with him then?

Jokic is average at best, but he does have some terrible, terrible games. It evens out though. He seems to turn it up a notch during the playoffs, but a good coach and the correct players can easily exploit it.

Then why get involved in this discussion. Hussein said terrible defender. Which I point out is nonsense and to the extreme. Side note if it was easily exploited then he wouldn’t have won a championship. Or do you think Denver got lucky. Jokic is a good defender. He is not elite he is not terrible or average. He is a good defender and in the playoffs showed why. Ask Jimmy Bulter.

[Woodsanity]

The poll should be changed to include Haliburton. He will not win but he will be top 5 in mvp voting easily if he keeps this up.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Lots of players doing crazy stuff, especially some of the younger guys.


SGA is at 30/6/6 on 55/37/93


He’s also 4th in the entire NBA in combined steals and blocks per game at 3.5. The next closest guard is Suggs with 2.5 per game.

And he has 28 on ball/loose ball steals this season, next closest player is at 17.

Best two way guard in the league.

[Woodsanity]

Not every team is amazing at pick and rolls. It could easily come down to coaching scheme as well.

He said jokic was terrible on defense. So you agree with him then?

Jokic is average at best, but he does have some terrible, terrible games. It evens out though. He seems to turn it up a notch during the playoffs, but a good coach and the correct players can easily exploit it.

Funny how "elite" defender Embiid was burned way harder by pick and rolls than horrible defender Jokic.

He was a traffic cone on defense against the Celtics especially in game 7.

[Infinite Llamas]

The poll should be changed to include Haliburton. He will not win but he will be top 5 in mvp voting easily if he keeps this up.

Curry out
Hali in.

[One Last Shot]

He said jokic was terrible on defense. So you agree with him then?

Jokic is average at best, but he does have some terrible, terrible games. It evens out though. He seems to turn it up a notch during the playoffs, but a good coach and the correct players can easily exploit it.

Funny how "elite" defender Embiid was burned way harder by pick and rolls than horrible defender Jokic.

He was a traffic cone on defense against the Celtics especially in game 7.

Did you forgot this happened last playoffs or just trying to be ignorant to thrash on Embiid?

Watch on YouTube

Here's the "traffic cone" on defense you are talking about in his younger years when he doesn't have to carry his team offensively like the past few years. He's about to win his 3rd straight scoring title this season, when was the last time a Center did that?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[iggymcfrack]

Eh, KD is a far better shooter, so, no they're not the same player.

They don’t score in exactly the same way. Shai gets more of his points at the rim and KD gets more from the perimeter. The results are the same though apart from steals and turnovers. Also, SGA’s 90.9% from the free throw line since the start of last season so ain’t nobody a “far” better shooter than him.

Wait so Shai and KD essentially the same player but one is 7’ and can shoot better BUT shai better- lol

Ok at least put KD on top 5.: with SGA

No, they put up same points/rebs/asts/TS%, but Shai leads the league in steals with almost 3 a game and also turns it over way less. That’s why SGA has a BPM of 10.8 compared to 6.3 for KD and that’s also why the Wolves have a NetRtg of +11.5 with Shai on the floor compared to +5.2 for the Suns with KD. SGA is clearly better.

[iggymcfrack]

Read on Twitter

Hali’s actually up to +9.4 after yesterday

[Wolfgang630]

Read on Twitter

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[bisme37]

The poll should be changed to include Haliburton. He will not win but he will be top 5 in mvp voting easily if he keeps this up.

Curry out
Hali in.

I plan to make the change soon. New thread/poll will be made when this one hits 100 pages.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

The poll should be changed to include Haliburton. He will not win but he will be top 5 in mvp voting easily if he keeps this up.

Curry out
Hali in.

I plan to make the change soon. New thread/poll will be made when this one hits 100 pages.

A mod encouraging me to spam 11 pages worth of nonsense?

Challenge accepted.

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

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I'm not complaining about this particular list but the NBA.com MVP ladder is kinda weird imo.

I've noticed last few seasons that there are substantial changes from week to week, even late in the season when it seems like one week of games shouldn't really overrule the previous several months and cause such a shakeup.

Seems like the writer thinks of it was some undefined blend between the whole season and the most recent week, and thinks he needs to justify his job by unnecessarily redoing the whole thing every few days. To me it doesn't make a ton of sense a lot of the time.

[bisme37]

Curry out
Hali in.

I plan to make the change soon. New thread/poll will be made when this one hits 100 pages.

A mod encouraging me to spam 11 pages worth of nonsense?

Challenge accepted.

lol!

[Woodsanity]

Read on Twitter

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All it took was resting games against actual good teams and then stat padding against the worst team in the league.

He loves the Wizards, he always drops 45-50 on them.

[Wolfgang630]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

I'm not complaining about this particular list but the NBA.com MVP ladder is kinda weird imo.

I've noticed last few seasons that there are substantial changes from week to week, even late in the season when it seems like one week of games shouldn't really overrule the previous several months and cause such a shakeup.

Seems like the writer thinks of it was some undefined blend between the whole season and the most recent week, and thinks he needs to justify his job by unnecessarily redoing the whole thing every few days. To me it doesn't make a ton of sense a lot of the time.

I knew Embiid was going to jump up. NBA.com is very reactionary week to week. It’s fine I don’t think it’s a big deal. They had Jokic winning it at the end of last season, which is funny considering he didn’t play as much and the Nuggets were losing games.