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Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#441 » by TimberKat » Sat Dec 9, 2023 1:44 pm

Klomp wrote:
Neeva wrote:And Murray he can’t play pg in half court at all. he would be a horrible backcourt partner with Ant IMO. His defense is bad and he does too much iso on offense. Hawks fans think he’s average and never leads their offense well when Trae Young is out and his one all star appearance was probably a fluke.

Which is why I want Quickley. I truly believe he's Murray with a jump shot. And he'll likely be on a similar contract.

I trade Naz, JMcD, or KA for Quickley. Towns / Gobert is worth way more than Quickley + picks
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#442 » by KGdaBom » Sat Dec 9, 2023 3:35 pm

TimberKat wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Neeva wrote:And Murray he can’t play pg in half court at all. he would be a horrible backcourt partner with Ant IMO. His defense is bad and he does too much iso on offense. Hawks fans think he’s average and never leads their offense well when Trae Young is out and his one all star appearance was probably a fluke.

Which is why I want Quickley. I truly believe he's Murray with a jump shot. And he'll likely be on a similar contract.

I trade Naz, JMcD, or KA for Quickley. Towns / Gobert is worth way more than Quickley + picks

It's my understanding that IQ plays defense on a similar level to Jaden so perhaps he would be worth it, but damn I don't want to give up Jaden or Naz.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#443 » by shrink » Sat Dec 9, 2023 3:40 pm

Quickley is 6-2. Jaden is 6-9.

Quickley is a good defender, but he’s not Jaden.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#444 » by Zonarosa » Sat Dec 9, 2023 3:41 pm

TimberKat wrote:I trade Naz, JMcD, or KA for Quickley. Towns / Gobert is worth way more than Quickley + picks


are you nuts?

i'm still trying to understand what everyone sees in quickley. no thank you.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#445 » by KGdaBom » Sat Dec 9, 2023 3:50 pm

shrink wrote:Quickley is 6-2. Jaden is 6-9.

Quickley is a good defender, but he’s not Jaden.

Cool. So Jaden can guard more positions.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#446 » by minimus » Sat Dec 9, 2023 5:46 pm

Zonarosa wrote:
TimberKat wrote:I trade Naz, JMcD, or KA for Quickley. Towns / Gobert is worth way more than Quickley + picks


are you nuts?

i'm still trying to understand what everyone sees in quickley. no thank you.

McDaniels alone is worth four late FRPs. He is young, under contract and full of potential.

IQ is a promising candidate for future starting PG, but he has not proved it yet and seeks new contract. His contract situation reminds me when Rosas traded late a FRP for Vando and Beasley to resign them later. Risky scenario, but Rosas managed that situation well.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#447 » by twolves31 » Sat Dec 9, 2023 5:59 pm

No way am I trading McDaniels for Quickley. Unless they are trading Brunson New York doesn't have the assets to get Jaden. Does Quickley as a starting pg, have the ability to average 8 assists per game? 3.5 is his best NBA season, and 1.9 was his best assists per game in college.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#448 » by Klomp » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:07 pm

twolves31 wrote:No way am I trading McDaniels for Quickley. Unless they are trading Brunson New York doesn't have the assets to get Jaden. Does Quickley as a starting pg, have the ability to average 8 assists per game? 3.5 is his best NBA season, and 1.9 was his best assists per game in college.

Finch doesn't want that from his point guards. He never has. One player will never dominate assists like that for him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#449 » by Mattya » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:50 pm

If McDaniels wasn't a good weak side help defender he would still be among the most sought after archetypes in the league. No way you trade him oustide of a superstar. Quickly is far from that.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#450 » by winforlose » Sat Dec 9, 2023 7:58 pm

Klomp wrote:
twolves31 wrote:No way am I trading McDaniels for Quickley. Unless they are trading Brunson New York doesn't have the assets to get Jaden. Does Quickley as a starting pg, have the ability to average 8 assists per game? 3.5 is his best NBA season, and 1.9 was his best assists per game in college.

Finch doesn't want that from his point guards. He never has. One player will never dominate assists like that for him.


Disagree. He loved it when Dlo or JMAC would drop 10 dimes. He loves PNR, and PNP. What he does not love is predictable sets. He wants organized chaos. He wants Mike or JMAC, or PG X to organize it.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#451 » by TimberKat » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:00 pm

I don't know if Quickley is really the guy but the packing order right now is Ant, Gobert, and Towns. It's working, so won't trade them unless it's a top 10 player like Booker or can't miss like Holmgren. Since Gobert isn't an offensive initiator and Conley is old, we need that third offensive player. I don't see JMcD as that guy. The only trade value we have are JMcD, Naz, KA (salary Match) for guys like Cam Johnson, Dinwiddie or DeRozan. I also won't trade any rotation players just for future picks. Wolves timeline is now, so any trade must improve this year.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#452 » by minimus » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:31 pm

Klomp wrote:
twolves31 wrote:No way am I trading McDaniels for Quickley. Unless they are trading Brunson New York doesn't have the assets to get Jaden. Does Quickley as a starting pg, have the ability to average 8 assists per game? 3.5 is his best NBA season, and 1.9 was his best assists per game in college.

Finch doesn't want that from his point guards. He never has. One player will never dominate assists like that for him.


Well, there is a difference between heliocentric offense such as Dallas around Luka and ATL around Young, and Finch free flow offense. By design MIN dont need 8 apg guy, something to we saw with DLo who on paper fits as PG for Gobert and Towns, but never formed a dynamic duo neither with Gobert, nor Towns. But as we can see with Conley Finch system benefit from high IQ decision maker who can both involve others and fill needs as scorer we needed. Conley case is a very interesting for me for multiple reasons:

- he has best AST:TO ratio in his career
- he has best 3PT% ratio in his career
- and he is low usage guy: only 8th in USG% (!!!)

The question regarding IQ is whether he can be such guy for us.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#453 » by Klomp » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:45 pm

minimus wrote:
Klomp wrote:
twolves31 wrote:No way am I trading McDaniels for Quickley. Unless they are trading Brunson New York doesn't have the assets to get Jaden. Does Quickley as a starting pg, have the ability to average 8 assists per game? 3.5 is his best NBA season, and 1.9 was his best assists per game in college.

Finch doesn't want that from his point guards. He never has. One player will never dominate assists like that for him.


Well, there is a difference between heliocentric offense such as Dallas around Luka and ATL around Young, and Finch free flow offense. By design MIN dont need 8 apg guy, something to we saw with DLo who on paper fits as PG for Gobert and Towns, but never formed a dynamic duo neither with Gobert, nor Towns. But as we can see with Conley Finch system benefit from high IQ decision maker who can both involve others and fill needs as scorer we needed. Conley case is a very interesting for me for multiple reasons:

- he has best AST:TO ratio in his career
- he has best 3PT% ratio in his career
- and he is low usage guy: only 8th in USG% (!!!)

The question regarding IQ is whether he can be such guy for us.

We probably will not find someone who gives you everything that Conley gives you. The team will need to figure out what qualities they value most and then determining what resources they're willing to part with in order to get them.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#454 » by minimus » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:03 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:
Klomp wrote:Finch doesn't want that from his point guards. He never has. One player will never dominate assists like that for him.


Well, there is a difference between heliocentric offense such as Dallas around Luka and ATL around Young, and Finch free flow offense. By design MIN dont need 8 apg guy, something to we saw with DLo who on paper fits as PG for Gobert and Towns, but never formed a dynamic duo neither with Gobert, nor Towns. But as we can see with Conley Finch system benefit from high IQ decision maker who can both involve others and fill needs as scorer we needed. Conley case is a very interesting for me for multiple reasons:

- he has best AST:TO ratio in his career
- he has best 3PT% ratio in his career
- and he is low usage guy: only 8th in USG% (!!!)

The question regarding IQ is whether he can be such guy for us.

We probably will not find someone who gives you everything that Conley gives you. The team will need to figure out what qualities they value most and then determining what resources they're willing to part with in order to get them.


I have same thought about possible Towns trade. There is no way we can replace Towns, but we can invest assets that we get in such trade to continue to develop this roster
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#455 » by Domejandro » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:11 pm

I would totally throw Minnesota’s unprotected pick swaps and the reverse of the 2029 pick (5-30 Protected) to take a flier on Immanuel Quickley, but I just don’t see that working for New York.

Beyond that, Minnesota has a really good thing going and their future salary is kind of chalked, so resigning Quickley would be rough (outside of dumping Towns or Gobert, which is absolutely off-the-table, during this season). I’m not inherently against targeting him at the Trade Deadline, but I think other teams have more to reasonably offer than Minnesota.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#456 » by Klomp » Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:14 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#457 » by TimberKat » Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:31 am

Klomp wrote:
Read on Twitter

You are definitely onto something. I am sure Tyus Jones will not be on WAS between Dec 15th (First day summer free agents can be traded) to Feb 8th. The question is where. This could mean Milton and KA has 2 more games to show they can be productive rotation players :D
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#458 » by Domejandro » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:20 am

I don't know if trading Kyle Anderson is a good idea, it's a tough call. On one hand, Troy Brown Jr. breaking out might make filling his minutes less brutal, but on the flip-side, he is so important as connective tissue for both Minnesota's offense and defense.

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As someone who appreciates Tyus Jones a lot, I would love having him back on Minnesota, but trading Kyle Anderson for him would be pretty scary.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#459 » by winforlose » Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:16 am

Domejandro wrote:I don't know if trading Kyle Anderson is a good idea, it's a tough call. On one hand, Troy Brown Jr. breaking out might make filling his minutes less brutal, but on the flip-side, he is so important as connective tissue for both Minnesota's offense and defense.

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As someone who appreciates Tyus Jones a lot, I would love having him back on Minnesota, but trading Kyle Anderson for him would be pretty scary.


Good Kyle and current Kyle are different people. Good Kyle floor spaces, makes high IQ drives with a plan to finish, and is a net positive player. Current Kyle is afraid to shoot the ball. Current Kyle drives in with under 5 seconds on the shot clock knowing he won’t shoot. Worse, other teams know bad Kyle won’t shoot, so they attack the passing lanes and force live ball turnovers. Bad Kyle causes teams to clog the paint the same way Josh Okogie did.

Putting aside good and bad Kyle for a moment, the core of Mike, Ant, MCD, KAT, Gobert, and Naz is the best 6 man group in the NBA. You have two all NBA defenders in Gobert and MCD. You have the only two 50/40/90 bigs in KAT and Naz. You have an emerging all NBA in Ant. Lastly you have a floor spacing, free throw making, high IQ Rudy whisperer in Bite Bite. You simply cannot trade any of them without major compensation. That means for more minor deals you have Shake, NAW, TBJ, Kyle, Moore, Minott, Miller, and JMAC. As well as NAW and TBJ have been playing they are untouchable at the moment. Moore is a guy who flopped hard and has no value. JMAC is valuable depth at a key position and is untouchable by himself. Minott and Miller are the cheap contracts needed to keep things on the rails in the coming years. We need them unless they move for other young talent at different positions. This leaves Moore, Shake, and Kyle. To keep Kyle you must have an answer for “what do we do if Mike gets hurt?” Frankly I don’t, and I doubt most people do.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition 

Post#460 » by minimus » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:28 am

Domejandro wrote:I don't know if trading Kyle Anderson is a good idea, it's a tough call. On one hand, Troy Brown Jr. breaking out might make filling his minutes less brutal, but on the flip-side, he is so important as connective tissue for both Minnesota's offense and defense.

Read on Twitter


As someone who appreciates Tyus Jones a lot, I would love having him back on Minnesota, but trading Kyle Anderson for him would be pretty scary.

Regarding Tyus defense.

I've read one post of WAS fan where he said that Tyus is particularly exposed against backdoor cuts and when opponent just passes the ball over him. I really like Tyus, I have been his supporter since day one. But his contract situation scares me. If we trade for him, how we can resign him?

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