Raptorfan2012 wrote:This is not the year to tank. Rather cut our losses and have the pick back for 2025.
You can have both. It's just another wasted year if they don't start now.
Moderators: 7 Footer, Duffman100, Morris_Shatford, DG88, HiJiNX, niQ, Reeko, lebron stopper
Raptorfan2012 wrote:This is not the year to tank. Rather cut our losses and have the pick back for 2025.
Jcity08 wrote:I dont care if we convey this year or not, my biggest concern is what we decide to do by the trade deadline, we cannot go into the offseason with the Siakam contract issue looming.
We need him moved for picks & pieces by no later than feb 8. OG needs to go to Indiana for whatever picks and pieces we can get too.
And then just let the chips fall where they may. If we get into the top 4, great, if not and we convey, it sucks but at least we recouped some value going forward.
Spida888 wrote:I’ve been on tWo since the Tampa year but it makes no sense this year.
With only top 6 protection and possibly dropping 4 lottery spots (like DET last year), we would have to be in the bottom 2 to ensure we keep our pick.
There’s too many trash teams to compete for a bottom 2 spot.
That said, we better not make any more win now moves like do a 2025 pick swap for Brogdon.
Spida888 wrote:I’ve been on tWo since the Tampa year but it makes no sense this year.
With only top 6 protection and possibly dropping 4 lottery spots (like DET last year), we would have to be in the bottom 2 to ensure we keep our pick.
There’s too many trash teams to compete for a bottom 2 spot.
That said, we better not make any more win now moves like do a 2025 pick swap for Brogdon.
PhilBlackson wrote:Spida888 wrote:I’ve been on tWo since the Tampa year but it makes no sense this year.
With only top 6 protection and possibly dropping 4 lottery spots (like DET last year), we would have to be in the bottom 2 to ensure we keep our pick.
There’s too many trash teams to compete for a bottom 2 spot.
That said, we better not make any more win now moves like do a 2025 pick swap for Brogdon.
The team just has to take that on the chin.
How I see it is whether we were drafting top 6 in this draft...or...*OUTSIDE the top 6 in 2025 (remember only conveys outside of the top 6), we'll probably have about equal odds of drafting a really good young player. Maybe I don't know enough about the 25' Draft Class but all I know is Cooper Flagg & Boozer (who are better prospects than top of this draft yes) for now but I haven't heard rumblings that it's some mega deep draft class with seemingly multiple all-stars. I think our odds of getting a really good player in the top 6 of this draft are just as likely as getting one outside of the top 6 of next years so I'd rather get a top talent here sooner than later personally.
I wouldn't complain if we got one of Sarr (especially), Holland or Collier next year. Not to mention we'll be getting picks back in whatever trades we make that we'll still have opportunity to find more talent nevermind whichever young player we're bringing back as the center of the trade. But I'm not letting the chance of losing a non-top 6 pick completely f*ck my franchise by holding onto a grenade that's about to explode in my face if I don't get rid of it first. The downside of not making the trade FAR outweighs conveying the pick this year or next.
wegotthabeet wrote:JShuttlesworth wrote:What happens to the pick if keep it this year? Does it turn into a future pick?
I never really thought we'd be this bad to have this be a real possibility
top 6 protected 2024 - 2026, if Toronto has not conveyed a 1st round pick to San Antonio by 2026, then Toronto will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick and 2027 2nd round pick to San Antonio.
Spida888 wrote:I’ve been on tWo since the Tampa year but it makes no sense this year.
With only top 6 protection and possibly dropping 4 lottery spots (like DET last year), we would have to be in the bottom 2 to ensure we keep our pick.
There’s too many trash teams to compete for a bottom 2 spot.
That said, we better not make any more win now moves like do a 2025 pick swap for Brogdon.
pingpongrac wrote:Reporting for duty.
I knew there was going to be some growing pains and we would be lucky to be a .500 team by the play-in tournament because of a tough schedule to start, but I can't believe how incredibly disjointed we've looked for the majority of the first 22 games; we have more often looked like a bottom 5 team than a mid-tier team and I'd be fine with that if we had more to look forward to, but Flynn/Achiuwa/McDaniels have mostly been bad and Gradey was terrible in his first NBA stint while Koloko is still sidelined. I still have high hopes for Gradey's future, but it's reasonable to expect him to not truly make a big impact until his 3rd season. Without a 1st (most likely anyway) in this upcoming draft, the only assets we have to improve our outlook in the near future are Siakam/OG – who are both expiring and likely seeking max contracts – and maybe we could flip Poeltl/Schroder for a few picks or young pieces and salary. The closer we get to the 15th (of December and then January), the more I'm hoping for a big trade to build up our asset base and truly start the rebuild.
We're in the bottom third in offensive efficiency and turnovers per game while our defence has been incredibly average across the board despite us having a lot of good – or even very good – defenders on the team. Darko hasn't shown many positives so far aside from being a nice/likable guy and he should be given a lot more time to work his way through some things in his first stint as a head coach, but it's disappointing how entirely rigid he has been with his rotations/substitutions and his reluctance to divert from his gameplan is creating more problems for a team that just isn't capable of playing how he envisioned. I had been able to see the vision of the FO for the majority of moves/non-moves over the past few years and could rationalize with most of them (with one of the exceptions being letting Eubanks go for nothing), but they have missed the mark on a lot of things; OPJ has been injured and missing in action for 90% of his Raptors career thus far, Poeltl hasn't made us any better and Flynn hasn't shown much of anything in 3+ years while our lack of shooting and guard play has been apparent for 2+ years yet not much has been done to change that, etc. My patience is wearing thin and losing Siakam or OG for nothing (or on the flip side trading for a win-now piece in hopes of pushing us into the playoffs) would probably be enough for me to lose all hope in this organization getting back to a similar level of success as the mid 2010s with the current FO.
Our 3 best players have been good (we're getting 20/10/6 per36 on 56 TS% with great help defence from Scottie, 22/7/5 per36 on 57 TS% from Siakam and 16/5/3 per36 on 58 TS% with elite man defence from OG) and we've been healthy (OG is the only starter to miss time), but we've been losing a lot of very winnable games due to various reasons. Last season was frustrating, but it was mostly because FVV and Scottie underperformed which made it seem like we should have been better. This year has just been bad despite us arguably having better players than we did at the start of 22/23. The pieces just don't fit the way Darko is using them.
Scase wrote:pingpongrac wrote:Reporting for duty.
I knew there was going to be some growing pains and we would be lucky to be a .500 team by the play-in tournament because of a tough schedule to start, but I can't believe how incredibly disjointed we've looked for the majority of the first 22 games; we have more often looked like a bottom 5 team than a mid-tier team and I'd be fine with that if we had more to look forward to, but Flynn/Achiuwa/McDaniels have mostly been bad and Gradey was terrible in his first NBA stint while Koloko is still sidelined. I still have high hopes for Gradey's future, but it's reasonable to expect him to not truly make a big impact until his 3rd season. Without a 1st (most likely anyway) in this upcoming draft, the only assets we have to improve our outlook in the near future are Siakam/OG – who are both expiring and likely seeking max contracts – and maybe we could flip Poeltl/Schroder for a few picks or young pieces and salary. The closer we get to the 15th (of December and then January), the more I'm hoping for a big trade to build up our asset base and truly start the rebuild.
We're in the bottom third in offensive efficiency and turnovers per game while our defence has been incredibly average across the board despite us having a lot of good – or even very good – defenders on the team. Darko hasn't shown many positives so far aside from being a nice/likable guy and he should be given a lot more time to work his way through some things in his first stint as a head coach, but it's disappointing how entirely rigid he has been with his rotations/substitutions and his reluctance to divert from his gameplan is creating more problems for a team that just isn't capable of playing how he envisioned. I had been able to see the vision of the FO for the majority of moves/non-moves over the past few years and could rationalize with most of them (with one of the exceptions being letting Eubanks go for nothing), but they have missed the mark on a lot of things; OPJ has been injured and missing in action for 90% of his Raptors career thus far, Poeltl hasn't made us any better and Flynn hasn't shown much of anything in 3+ years while our lack of shooting and guard play has been apparent for 2+ years yet not much has been done to change that, etc. My patience is wearing thin and losing Siakam or OG for nothing (or on the flip side trading for a win-now piece in hopes of pushing us into the playoffs) would probably be enough for me to lose all hope in this organization getting back to a similar level of success as the mid 2010s with the current FO.
Our 3 best players have been good (we're getting 20/10/6 per36 on 56 TS% with great help defence from Scottie, 22/7/5 per36 on 57 TS% from Siakam and 16/5/3 per36 on 58 TS% with elite man defence from OG) and we've been healthy (OG is the only starter to miss time), but we've been losing a lot of very winnable games due to various reasons. Last season was frustrating, but it was mostly because FVV and Scottie underperformed which made it seem like we should have been better. This year has just been bad despite us arguably having better players than we did at the start of 22/23. The pieces just don't fit the way Darko is using them.
I don't disagree with mostly anything here, but I wanted to ask. Why is Scottie at 56% TS% and Siakam 57%, when they are 56.3 and 56.5 respectively lol.