ImageImageImageImageImage

Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV)

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer

User avatar
Scase
RealGM
Posts: 14,640
And1: 10,781
Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Location: Ottawa by way of MTL
       

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#101 » by Scase » Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:23 am

pingpongrac wrote:
Scase wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:Reporting for duty.

I knew there was going to be some growing pains and we would be lucky to be a .500 team by the play-in tournament because of a tough schedule to start, but I can't believe how incredibly disjointed we've looked for the majority of the first 22 games; we have more often looked like a bottom 5 team than a mid-tier team and I'd be fine with that if we had more to look forward to, but Flynn/Achiuwa/McDaniels have mostly been bad and Gradey was terrible in his first NBA stint while Koloko is still sidelined. I still have high hopes for Gradey's future, but it's reasonable to expect him to not truly make a big impact until his 3rd season. Without a 1st (most likely anyway) in this upcoming draft, the only assets we have to improve our outlook in the near future are Siakam/OG – who are both expiring and likely seeking max contracts – and maybe we could flip Poeltl/Schroder for a few picks or young pieces and salary. The closer we get to the 15th (of December and then January), the more I'm hoping for a big trade to build up our asset base and truly start the rebuild.

We're in the bottom third in offensive efficiency and turnovers per game while our defence has been incredibly average across the board despite us having a lot of good – or even very good – defenders on the team. Darko hasn't shown many positives so far aside from being a nice/likable guy and he should be given a lot more time to work his way through some things in his first stint as a head coach, but it's disappointing how entirely rigid he has been with his rotations/substitutions and his reluctance to divert from his gameplan is creating more problems for a team that just isn't capable of playing how he envisioned. I had been able to see the vision of the FO for the majority of moves/non-moves over the past few years and could rationalize with most of them (with one of the exceptions being letting Eubanks go for nothing), but they have missed the mark on a lot of things; OPJ has been injured and missing in action for 90% of his Raptors career thus far, Poeltl hasn't made us any better and Flynn hasn't shown much of anything in 3+ years while our lack of shooting and guard play has been apparent for 2+ years yet not much has been done to change that, etc. My patience is wearing thin and losing Siakam or OG for nothing (or on the flip side trading for a win-now piece in hopes of pushing us into the playoffs) would probably be enough for me to lose all hope in this organization getting back to a similar level of success as the mid 2010s with the current FO.

Our 3 best players have been good (we're getting 20/10/6 per36 on 56 TS% with great help defence from Scottie, 22/7/5 per36 on 57 TS% from Siakam and 16/5/3 per36 on 58 TS% with elite man defence from OG) and we've been healthy (OG is the only starter to miss time), but we've been losing a lot of very winnable games due to various reasons. Last season was frustrating, but it was mostly because FVV and Scottie underperformed which made it seem like we should have been better. This year has just been bad despite us arguably having better players than we did at the start of 22/23. The pieces just don't fit the way Darko is using them.

I don't disagree with mostly anything here, but I wanted to ask. Why is Scottie at 56% TS% and Siakam 57%, when they are 56.3 and 56.5 respectively lol.


I rounded the numbers, just as I did for their per36 numbers so as not to make it look quite as messy.

Scottie: 20.4/9.5/5.8 per36 on .563 TS%
Siakam: 21.7/7.2/5.2 per36 on .565 TS%
OG: 16.4/4.7/2.7 per36 on .578 TS%

The point stands regardless of a few percentage points or fractions of PTS/REB/AST though lol. Our three best players have been good statistically, but we're a bottom 10 team by most metrics. We were playing at a similar level at this point last season, but that was with Siakam missing 10 games and FVV/Scottie not playing well until mid-December while we still didn't have a starting C either. If this is us with our best players playing well and being healthy, I don't imagine we'll be much better when we inevitably have an injury or two to our starters that we need to play through. That's what I'm getting at.

Fair enough! I am waiting for the inevitable injury as well, like we are losing to the hornets missing lamelo, while being full strength, this has disaster written all over it.
Image
Props TZ!
User avatar
Bruin
RealGM
Posts: 25,209
And1: 39,692
Joined: Mar 11, 2018
       

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#102 » by Bruin » Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:35 am

Can we just draft Caitlin Clark. She’d be the best guard on the team
Image
User avatar
Reeko
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 26,212
And1: 38,355
Joined: Jan 04, 2015
Location: East side, in a deluxe apartment in the sky.
   

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#103 » by Reeko » Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:54 am

microjacklin wrote:Since it's TWO topic, just reminder that even in 2006, there's Aldridge/Roy/JJ redick and even our GRoat Lowry is coming out in 2006

Sent from my SM-S9110 using RealGM mobile app

Don't forget Rajon Rondo.
Clay Davis wrote:COMPOSED ONLY OF THE COOLEST WOMEN AND THE HOTTEST GUYS, THE TORONTO RAPTORS REALGM BOARD HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN FOR ITS HIGH-QUALITY DISCUSSION, PASSIONATE LOYALTY, TEMPERATE CELEBRATIONS OF VICTORY, AND GRACE IN DEFEAT.
Harcore Fenton Mun
RealGM
Posts: 14,299
And1: 8,413
Joined: Jul 17, 2006

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#104 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:01 am

Reeko wrote:
microjacklin wrote:Since it's TWO topic, just reminder that even in 2006, there's Aldridge/Roy/JJ redick and even our GRoat Lowry is coming out in 2006

Sent from my SM-S9110 using RealGM mobile app

Don't forget Rajon Rondo.

Don't have to tank for any of those players. Rondo might be the only drafted exception.

All can be had by trades.
Image
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,217
And1: 51,680
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#105 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:15 am

threads a waste. they aint tanking
Basketball_Jones
RealGM
Posts: 30,596
And1: 17,901
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
     

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#106 » by Basketball_Jones » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:23 am

There’s no tank this year lol. That’s the only thing we know for certain. Everything else, we have no idea. Even the front office probably has no idea what they are doing.
2019 Eastern Conference All Stars

Derozan
Lowry
Ibaka
Valanciunas
Van Vleet
Delon Wright
Lebron
Embiid

There are only 2 teams in the league that rank in the top 6 in offensive and defensive efficiency: the Golden State Warriors and the Toronto Raptors.
User avatar
refshateRaps
Head Coach
Posts: 6,098
And1: 8,080
Joined: Feb 08, 2014

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#107 » by refshateRaps » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:58 am

WuTang_OG wrote:threads a waste. they aint tanking


Intentionally lol
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,217
And1: 51,680
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#108 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:08 am

refshateRaps wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:threads a waste. they aint tanking


Intentionally lol


top 6 protected pick and too many dumpster teams. this aint the year
User avatar
Bruin
RealGM
Posts: 25,209
And1: 39,692
Joined: Mar 11, 2018
       

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#109 » by Bruin » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:10 am

WuTang_OG wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:threads a waste. they aint tanking


Intentionally lol


top 6 protected pick and too many dumpster teams. this aint the year

Idk if you’ve noticed but we’re one of those dumpster teams. Our own head coach needs to incentivize a string of 3 wins with a pizza party
Image
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,217
And1: 51,680
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#110 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:14 am

Bruin wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
Intentionally lol


top 6 protected pick and too many dumpster teams. this aint the year

Idk if you’ve noticed but we’re one of those dumpster teams. Our own head coach needs to incentivize a string of 3 wins with a pizza party

ya no shyt we suck but we aint tanking the year like detroit spurs and wash who have a combined 8 wins
NotMyKawhi
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,939
And1: 5,203
Joined: Jul 13, 2018

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#111 » by NotMyKawhi » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:24 am

WuTang_OG wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:threads a waste. they aint tanking


Intentionally lol


top 6 protected pick and too many dumpster teams. this aint the year


It's gonna happen! Grizz will pass us once Ja comes back. Hornets just beat us w/o melo lol I think the Jazz pass us too.

5th if we don't make any trades, bottom 4 if we do
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,217
And1: 51,680
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#112 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:26 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
Intentionally lol


top 6 protected pick and too many dumpster teams. this aint the year


It's gonna happen! Grizz will pass us once Ja comes back. Hornets just beat us w/o melo lol I think the Jazz pass us too.

5th if we don't make any trades, bottom 4 if we do


just like how it happened last year with a bigger prize while also not having the threat of losing our 1st
NotMyKawhi
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,939
And1: 5,203
Joined: Jul 13, 2018

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#113 » by NotMyKawhi » Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:16 am

WuTang_OG wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
top 6 protected pick and too many dumpster teams. this aint the year


It's gonna happen! Grizz will pass us once Ja comes back. Hornets just beat us w/o melo lol I think the Jazz pass us too.

5th if we don't make any trades, bottom 4 if we do


just like how it happened last year with a bigger prize while also not having the threat of losing our 1st


shouldn''t the threat of losing our 1st make us want to tank..
C_Money
RealGM
Posts: 26,506
And1: 26,737
Joined: Jun 30, 2008
       

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#114 » by C_Money » Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:21 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
It's gonna happen! Grizz will pass us once Ja comes back. Hornets just beat us w/o melo lol I think the Jazz pass us too.

5th if we don't make any trades, bottom 4 if we do


just like how it happened last year with a bigger prize while also not having the threat of losing our 1st


shouldn''t the threat of losing our 1st make us want to tank..


No because then it’ll just go to the Spurs next year in a better draft. If there was ever a time to be gunning for 9th its this year. Just give the pick to them and get it over with.
Image
metafisical
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,962
And1: 6,072
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
     

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#115 » by metafisical » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:58 am

The only time I would be okay with giving up our 1st this season to the Spurs, rather than tanking for a top 6 pick, is if Pascal and/or OG are traded for firsts.

How the hell else are we supposed to inject talent into this mediocre team? No good free agent wants to sign. Trading is a possibility, but not if Masai and Bobby are demanding back a haul fit for a prime Lebron or MJ. They are even willing to let our players walk for nothing (e.g., FVV, Gasol and Ibaka). So how else can we reasonably improve this team other than through the draft?

We are a team that cannot afford to give up draft picks at all.
I acknowledge and thank the lək̓ʷəŋən peoples of the Songhees, Esquimalt and W̱SÁNEĆ First Nations for allowing me to live, work and play on their unceded traditional territories.
microjacklin
Pro Prospect
Posts: 916
And1: 615
Joined: Jun 08, 2006

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#116 » by microjacklin » Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:44 am

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
Reeko wrote:
microjacklin wrote:Since it's TWO topic, just reminder that even in 2006, there's Aldridge/Roy/JJ redick and even our GRoat Lowry is coming out in 2006

Sent from my SM-S9110 using RealGM mobile app

Don't forget Rajon Rondo.

Don't have to tank for any of those players. Rondo might be the only drafted exception.

All can be had by trades.

LoL
trade by what?
this 2023 Toronto Raptors is a team that :
1. estimate losing their 1st round pick
2. our best captital OG/Siakam expiring this offseason and definietely demand max money
3. No FA willing to come here (oh wait, they will rumor they are willing to sign here but actual sign with other team)

We almost lose any chance to add talent but only draft
You really think the rest of NBA teams are stupid enough to give good value to us for OG/Siakam when they look us as the turkey on the table ?

BTW, of course the coach and the player don't play for tank
but that's the worst part
this team didn't play for tank but still go direct to tank no matter they want it or not
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,217
And1: 51,680
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#117 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:45 pm

NotMyKawhi wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
It's gonna happen! Grizz will pass us once Ja comes back. Hornets just beat us w/o melo lol I think the Jazz pass us too.

5th if we don't make any trades, bottom 4 if we do


just like how it happened last year with a bigger prize while also not having the threat of losing our 1st


shouldn''t the threat of losing our 1st make us want to tank..


nope. its top 6 with already 3 teams we are not touching. if we didnt tank last year, they are not tanking this year. draft is by all accounts subpar. They made their damage with the poeltl trade, now is the time to give it up
User avatar
ItsDanger
RealGM
Posts: 28,481
And1: 25,674
Joined: Nov 01, 2008

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#118 » by ItsDanger » Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:51 pm

May not get a high draft pick this season, but there are plenty of trade opportunities for recently drafted players.
Organization can be defined as an organized body of people with a particular purpose. Not random.
NotMyKawhi
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,939
And1: 5,203
Joined: Jul 13, 2018

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#119 » by NotMyKawhi » Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:19 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
just like how it happened last year with a bigger prize while also not having the threat of losing our 1st


shouldn''t the threat of losing our 1st make us want to tank..


nope. its top 6 with already 3 teams we are not touching. if we didnt tank last year, they are not tanking this year. draft is by all accounts subpar. They made their damage with the poeltl trade, now is the time to give it up


its not tanking, its called we aren't good enough
Harcore Fenton Mun
RealGM
Posts: 14,299
And1: 8,413
Joined: Jul 17, 2006

Re: Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV) 

Post#120 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:27 pm

NotMyKawhi wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
It's gonna happen! Grizz will pass us once Ja comes back. Hornets just beat us w/o melo lol I think the Jazz pass us too.

5th if we don't make any trades, bottom 4 if we do


just like how it happened last year with a bigger prize while also not having the threat of losing our 1st


shouldn''t the threat of losing our 1st make us want to tank..

Does the threat of being homeless make you want to set your house on fire?
Image

Return to Toronto Raptors