2025 ATL Thread - Burnes to have TJ surgery

Post #801 » by **ReasonablySober** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:02 pm

Holy god.

Post #802 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:20 pm

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MikeIsGood · Post #803 » by **MikeIsGood** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:47 pm

Not that it effectively matters to us, but it's a 10/700 deal (70 ACV), not 7/700 (100 ACV)

Post #804 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:55 pm

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Post #805 » by **humanrefutation** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:00 am

70 AAV can be understood within the framework of getting an elite pitcher and an elite hitter in one go for 35 AAV for each, which isn't far off what they're paid on the open market. However, I just don't know if Ohtani will be able to keep up pitching for the lifetime of his contract, and if he can't, you're paying $70 million a year for a great hitter which is a pretty significant overpay.

That being said, the Dodgers can afford it.

Post #806 » by **ReasonablySober** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:12 am

humanrefutation wrote:70 AAV can be understood within the framework of getting an elite pitcher and an elite hitter in one go for 35 AAV for each, which isn't far off what they're paid on the open market. However, I just don't know if Ohtani will be able to keep up pitching for the lifetime of his contract, and if he can't, you're paying $70 million a year for a great hitter which is a pretty significant overpay.

That being said, the Dodgers can afford it.

The issue is they aren't playing remotely close to $70 million a year. The deal is deferred to hell and back and because of it the Dodgers are able to pay Ohtani AND miss out on the luxury tax bill that would have cost them hundreds of millions.

msiris · Post #807 » by **msiris** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:27 am

This is why alot of people are turned off by MLB.

ReginaldDwight · Post #808 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:13 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:70 AAV can be understood within the framework of getting an elite pitcher and an elite hitter in one go for 35 AAV for each, which isn't far off what they're paid on the open market. However, I just don't know if Ohtani will be able to keep up pitching for the lifetime of his contract, and if he can't, you're paying $70 million a year for a great hitter which is a pretty significant overpay.

That being said, the Dodgers can afford it.

The issue is they aren't playing remotely close to $70 million a year. The deal is deferred to hell and back and because of it the Dodgers are able to pay Ohtani AND miss out on the luxury tax bill that would have cost them hundreds of millions.

I dont understand the deferred payment thing?

Ron Swanson · Post #809 » by **Ron Swanson** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:01 pm

ReginaldDwight wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:70 AAV can be understood within the framework of getting an elite pitcher and an elite hitter in one go for 35 AAV for each, which isn't far off what they're paid on the open market. However, I just don't know if Ohtani will be able to keep up pitching for the lifetime of his contract, and if he can't, you're paying $70 million a year for a great hitter which is a pretty significant overpay.

That being said, the Dodgers can afford it.

The issue is they aren't playing remotely close to $70 million a year. The deal is deferred to hell and back and because of it the Dodgers are able to pay Ohtani AND miss out on the luxury tax bill that would have cost them hundreds of millions.

I dont understand the deferred payment thing?

Essentially just legal luxury tax circumvention. I honestly don't know how long MLB can operate like this. Agree with everyone saying that Ohtani is the exception here and we won't be seeing $700 million contracts any time soon, but the optics of this are absurd. Turns out a D-backs/Rangers WS was indeed the worst outcome that could have happened. Now, when you point out that the LA and New York markets are out here buying championships all the smug baseball guys will sit there with a straight face and say "Payroll doesn't guarantee anything". It's nauseating.

Post #810 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:06 pm

ReginaldDwight wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:70 AAV can be understood within the framework of getting an elite pitcher and an elite hitter in one go for 35 AAV for each, which isn't far off what they're paid on the open market. However, I just don't know if Ohtani will be able to keep up pitching for the lifetime of his contract, and if he can't, you're paying $70 million a year for a great hitter which is a pretty significant overpay.

That being said, the Dodgers can afford it.

The issue is they aren't playing remotely close to $70 million a year. The deal is deferred to hell and back and because of it the Dodgers are able to pay Ohtani AND miss out on the luxury tax bill that would have cost them hundreds of millions.

I dont understand the deferred payment thing?

Details aren't out yet but reportedly a majority of the contract will be deferred to future years. The Mets did this with Bobby Bonilla (smaller contract obviously). They're paying him through 2035.

ReginaldDwight · Post #811 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:23 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
ReginaldDwight wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
The issue is they aren't playing remotely close to $70 million a year. The deal is deferred to hell and back and because of it the Dodgers are able to pay Ohtani AND miss out on the luxury tax bill that would have cost them hundreds of millions.

I dont understand the deferred payment thing?

Details aren't out yet but reportedly a majority of the contract will be deferred to future years. The Mets did this with Bobby Bonilla (smaller contract obviously). They're paying him through 2035.

Wasnt Bonilla a buyout though? Insane you can sign a contract like this to avoid the luxury tax. Id imagine every small market owner is pissed off today.

Post #812 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:42 pm

ReginaldDwight wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:
ReginaldDwight wrote:I dont understand the deferred payment thing?

Details aren't out yet but reportedly a majority of the contract will be deferred to future years. The Mets did this with Bobby Bonilla (smaller contract obviously). They're paying him through 2035.

Wasnt Bonilla a buyout though? Insane you can sign a contract like this to avoid the luxury tax. Id imagine every small market owner is pissed off today.

Smaller scale of course but the Brewers deferred some of Braun's contract and are paying him $2 million per year through 2031. They're paying Cain $1 million per year through 2027.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #813 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:48 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
ReginaldDwight wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:Details aren't out yet but reportedly a majority of the contract will be deferred to future years. The Mets did this with Bobby Bonilla (smaller contract obviously). They're paying him through 2035.

Wasnt Bonilla a buyout though? Insane you can sign a contract like this to avoid the luxury tax. Id imagine every small market owner is pissed off today.

Smaller scale of course but the Brewers deferred some of Braun's contract and are paying him $2 million per year through 2031. They're paying Cain $1 million per year through 2027.

Feels like this is a bit of a loophole from the pre lux tax era that they should probably close.

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Post #814 » by **MickeyDavis** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:59 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:
ReginaldDwight wrote:Wasnt Bonilla a buyout though? Insane you can sign a contract like this to avoid the luxury tax. Id imagine every small market owner is pissed off today.

Smaller scale of course but the Brewers deferred some of Braun's contract and are paying him $2 million per year through 2031. They're paying Cain $1 million per year through 2027.
Feels like this is a bit of a loophole from the pre lux tax era that they should probably close.

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Agreed. Defer payments if it helps you cash flow but the full amount should be charged for tax purposes each year. The union will never agree to it, they don't want to do anything to hamper big markets.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #815 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:07 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:
Smaller scale of course but the Brewers deferred some of Braun's contract and are paying him $2 million per year through 2031. They're paying Cain $1 million per year through 2027.
Feels like this is a bit of a loophole from the pre lux tax era that they should probably close.

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Agreed. Defer payments if it helps you cash flow but the full amount should be charged for tax purposes each year. The union will never agree to it, they don't want to do anything to hamper big markets.

Feels like this is heart of baseballs system issues. Players and spending teams don't want anything to change so when it's just the small markets who benefit nothing will get done. Added bad is some **** small market owners like the current system because they simply don't spend and collect tax money.

Fans are about the only people who seem to care about competitive balance at all. Will probably take some small markets just completely failing in the future for anything to be done.

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Turk Nowitzki · Post #816 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:56 pm

What the actual ****? This definitely should not be allowed.

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trwi7 · Post #817 » by **trwi7** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:08 pm

MLB needs to step in on this. Completely ridiculous if this is allowed.

Post #818 » by **humanrefutation** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:16 pm

Why shouldn't it be allowed? It's his money. If he wants to defer it, more power to him.

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Post #819 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:17 pm

What a crock of ****.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #820 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:24 pm

humanrefutation wrote:Why shouldn't it be allowed? It's his money. If he wants to defer it, more power to him.

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Nothing to do with Ohtani doing anything wrong. It just shouldn't legally be allowed in the CBA. You don't see an unfair competitive advantage that the Dodgers get to have the best player in baseball playing on an IOU for the next decade?

There should be a limit on the percentage of a contract that can be deferred. It's a pretty easy fix.