NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[Mavrelous]

Classic Kidd, regularly played Giannis for almost the whole second half to save his dodgy butt

He almost lost to the Grizzlies because of his stupidity, Luka started the 4th totally gassed with really bad lineup had to work his ass off on defense, and on offense his teammates were walking right into Jenkins traps while he was behind a double team, Kidd basically worked him just to lose the lead, and when the starters came back he couldn't pull him because the distance wasn't safe enough.
Kidd had an amazing 2nd half of his 1st season, since then he's been astonishingly bad, really absurd stuff.

[Mavrelous]

If you don't know who said that why say it was a Nuggets fan?

When did I say it was a Nuggets fan?

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"Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24
Post#1604 » by LordCovington33 » Wed Dec 6, 2023 11:05 pm
By the way, that was some pathetic stat padding by the Mavericks tonight. The team is up big (50 points in the end), and Doncic still played 32 minutes."

By the end of 3rd, 76ers were up by 45;
By the end of 3rd, Mavs were up by 35; The game before, Dec 2nd, Mavs just had a 30:0 4th quarter run, so maybe Kidd wanted to make sure it did not happen to them.

32min is not a lot more than 30min, which was how many minutes Embiid played.

And Mavs were really shorthanded, with no forwards in rotation, Luka and rookie OMax, were the only forward sized players on roster, but it's typical Embiid fans taking jabs at other players and known Luka haters just looking for ways to criticize, nothing new or surprising.

[Mavrelous]

About Luka's on/off, a recurring theme of statistical anomaly, he had negative on/off yesterday, in the previous game against the Grizzlies, Luka had a new born and missed the game, Mavs were much much healthier than this game, and they still lost, so how can it be they lose to a team w/o Luka but beat them with Luka having negative on/off?
In the 1st half, Luka rest coincided with Bane rest, and Derrick Rose/Jaylen Nowell ran the offense, Rose, bless his heart is totally cooked, and Jaden Hardy caught fire, hitting 3 3s, and Mavs were able to extend the lead, in the 4th, despite Luka already logging 32 minutes out of the 36 minutes, Kidd starts the 4th with him and backups (Markieff Morris and Dwight Powell, maybe 3rd stringers level players, Morris not even that), and Mavs struggle to maintain the lead, and keeping distance solely because Luka is doubled and the Mavs playing 4 on 3 with limited success, this tanked Luka's on off.
Just another example of negative on/off game that anyone who watched wouldn't even consider the possibility of Mavs being actually better w/o Luka, but it doesn't show in stat sheet.

[eyeatoma]

When did I say it was a Nuggets fan?

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"Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24
Post#1604 » by LordCovington33 » Wed Dec 6, 2023 11:05 pm
By the way, that was some pathetic stat padding by the Mavericks tonight. The team is up big (50 points in the end), and Doncic still played 32 minutes."

By the end of 3rd, 76ers were up by 45;
By the end of 3rd, Mavs were up by 35; The game before, Dec 2nd, Mavs just had a 30:0 4th quarter run, so maybe Kidd wanted to make sure it did not happen to them.

32min is not a lot more than 30min, which was how many minutes Embiid played.

And Mavs were really shorthanded, with no forwards in rotation, Luka and rookie OMax, were the only forward sized players on roster, but it's typical Embiid fans taking jabs at other players and known Luka haters just looking for ways to criticize, nothing new or surprising.

Let it be known I didn't say anything about Luka. I said people like to say that Embiid Stat pads. I brought up today's game as an example of how he doesn't do that. In fact he has sat out 6 4th quarters and didn't Stat pad when he had the opportunity.



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[AleksandarN]

When did I say it was a Nuggets fan?

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You tried to imply it was and blame it on a nuggets fan. I didn’t say you were. And it was in fact a Philly fan. Your own

I said Jokic fans, I did not say Nuggets fan. You can't put words in my mouth. There are plenty of non Nuggets fans who are Jokic fans. Yes it was a sixers fan who said that about Doncic. Doesnt' change the fact that plenty of Jokic fans say that Embiid takes games off, and then choose to play minnows to pad his stats.

Why bring up Jokic fans when it clearly wasn’t? You knew what you were doing by slandering a group of posters when it wasn’t them.

[eyeatoma]

You tried to imply it was and blame it on a nuggets fan. I didn’t say you were. And it was in fact a Philly fan. Your own

I said Jokic fans, I did not say Nuggets fan. You can't put words in my mouth. There are plenty of non Nuggets fans who are Jokic fans. Yes it was a sixers fan who said that about Doncic. Doesnt' change the fact that plenty of Jokic fans say that Embiid takes games off, and then choose to play minnows to pad his stats.

Why bring up Jokic fans when it clearly wasn’t? You knew what you were doing by slandering a group of posters when it wasn’t them.

? Are you telling me that Jokic fans have never accused Embiid of stat padding?

They haven't said Embiid takes games off, and then pads his stats against minnow teams?

This entire thread was full of those accusations just a few days ago, where everyone went back and forth and many of those people were Jokic fans.

If you don't like being part of that group that's your own problem, but fact of the matter is, plenty of Jokic fans have said that. No one is being slandered, as this is fact.

[AleksandarN]

I said Jokic fans, I did not say Nuggets fan. You can't put words in my mouth. There are plenty of non Nuggets fans who are Jokic fans. Yes it was a sixers fan who said that about Doncic. Doesnt' change the fact that plenty of Jokic fans say that Embiid takes games off, and then choose to play minnows to pad his stats.

Why bring up Jokic fans when it clearly wasn’t? You knew what you were doing by slandering a group of posters when it wasn’t them.

? Are you telling me that Jokic fans have never accused Embiid of stat padding?

They haven't said Embiid takes games off, and then pads his stats against minnow teams?

This entire thread was full of those accusations just a few days ago, where everyone went back and forth and many of those people were Jokic fans.

If you don't like being part of that group that's your own problem, but fact of the matter is, plenty of Jokic fans have said that. No one is being slandered, as this is fact.

I am Nuggets fan

[bigboi]

You're wasting your time with Embiid. He has already stolen one MVP, and he is by far the worst and least successful of all players who have this award. There's no way they'll give him another one.

Lol

Forgot that the MVP was based on playoff performance.

He was never the most valuable player in a regular season either.

Playoff performances, where he was never able to replicate his regular season peformances, technically don't count for the MVP award but imply that he is a regular season stat padder.

Yes, he was which is why he won MVP. Everything else y’all say is opinion. The fact is that he won mvp

[losmi]

Lol

Forgot that the MVP was based on playoff performance.

He was never the most valuable player in a regular season either.

Playoff performances, where he was never able to replicate his regular season peformances, technically don't count for the MVP award but imply that he is a regular season stat padder.

Yes, he was which is why he won MVP. Everything else y’all say is opinion. The fact is that he won mvp

The award is also an opinion, of a group of people.

It's sad that this wasn't even their opinion last year.

[Cubbies2120]

Team record being the biggest one. Awarding a 6th seed the MVP was surprising. Especially given that the Sixers were without Simmons for the entire season and Harden wasn't around till the last month and a half.

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do.

I know the Nuggets didn't have MPJ either, but I'd argue that SImmons was worth atleast 70-80% of MPJ and Murray combined, given that he was an all star.

So just to make sure I'm understanding...you're arguing for Simmons being an extremely valuable player, and putting down MPJ and Murray (given that he was worth 80% of BOTH of them combined), right?

I'd like to remember this for when we start talking about Embiid's playoff failures because he had no help (Even that "Extremely valuable player Simmons" counts as help!) and when people are arguing Jokic had a stacked roster becasue Murray performed great last year (But remember him and MPJ are only 80% of a Simmons, who couldn't help Embiid win it all). Just want to ensure we're being consistent in our arguments, that's all. I may have misunderstood your post, I'd be happy if you dumbed it down for a simple mind like mine

[Cubbies2120]

I'd be curious to know how many of the other MVP candidates have sat out 4th quarters this season, and if they aren't how it gives them an opportunity to add to their stats.

The notion that he stat pads is ridiculous given what I just mentioned.

Let me ask you a question, I'm curious on your opinion:

Which is stat padding in this case:

Playing in late 3rd quarter up 40
or
Playing in early 4th quarter up 20

Just curious...

Does the fact that it's 4th quarter (which can be a minute difference between the two scenarios above, btw) make one stat padding and the other not? I'm curious on your thoughts - I value your opinion (I have not in the past, so I'm evolving )

[LordCovington33]

When did I say it was a Nuggets fan?

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"Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24
Post#1604 » by LordCovington33 » Wed Dec 6, 2023 11:05 pm
By the way, that was some pathetic stat padding by the Mavericks tonight. The team is up big (50 points in the end), and Doncic still played 32 minutes."

By the end of 3rd, 76ers were up by 45;
By the end of 3rd, Mavs were up by 35; The game before, Dec 2nd, Mavs just had a 30:0 4th quarter run, so maybe Kidd wanted to make sure it did not happen to them.

32min is not a lot more than 30min, which was how many minutes Embiid played.

And Mavs were really shorthanded, with no forwards in rotation, Luka and rookie OMax, were the only forward sized players on roster, but it's typical Embiid fans taking jabs at other players and known Luka haters just looking for ways to criticize, nothing new or surprising.

Talk about tarring all fans of a particular player with the same brush. Only a handful of us bother commenting on this thread unless you have noticed. My point DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF ALL FANS. I don’t like it when a team does it with any player, and however way you spin it, being up that big and not resting your best player is a recipe for disaster imo. The same thing applies if they keep Embiid out there for too long.

[Mavrelous]

My point DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF ALL FANS.

And my comment wasn't about all Embiid fans, it was about you specifically, you made a wrong observation and got call out for it...

[LordCovington33]

My point DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF ALL FANS.

And my comment wasn't about all Embiid fans, it was about you specifically, you made a wrong observation and got call out for it...

Then you need to learn to phrase your points better as “typical Embiid fans” has just one meaning.

[losmi]

Interesting how Ben Simmons, who went from being a superstar that was missing in the 2020 sweep vs Celtics to being the main culprit behind poor Embiid's loss to the 2021 Hawks, ended up being a superstar, actually a megastar worth 80% of Murray and Porter combined in the 2022 season.

[Mavrelous]

My point DOES NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF ALL FANS.

And my comment wasn't about all Embiid fans, it was about you specifically, you made a wrong observation and got call out for it...

Then you need to learn to phrase your points better as “typical Embiid fans” has just one meaning.

And " typical Embiid fans taking jabs at other players" has another...

[timO]

SGA
embid
joker
giannis
Hali
Doncic
Tatum
labron
KD
Fox

[bigboi]

He was never the most valuable player in a regular season either.

Playoff performances, where he was never able to replicate his regular season peformances, technically don't count for the MVP award but imply that he is a regular season stat padder.

Yes, he was which is why he won MVP. Everything else y’all say is opinion. The fact is that he won mvp

The award is also an opinion, of a group of people.

It's sad that this wasn't even their opinion last year.

But it was their opinion. The award is the official opinion. You’re just arguing to argue. Embiid won fair and square and that’s something you need to accept. Jokic is losing again this year and y’all will cry again after crowning him too early

[PistolPeteJR]

Actually I would probably put Hali 6th/7th at most now that I think about it. Would not put him above Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka or SGA.

Lebron would be 6th or 7th as well.

What makes SGA a lock and Hali not? Both are meh on defense, both are strong scorers with Hali better from deep and the better playmaker?

Both are meh on defense?? That's a big paint brush
Per 100:
SGA - 7.6r/3.8s/1.2b 107DRtg 3.5 DBPM; Team #7 in D
Hali - 5.6r/1.3s/0.9b 122DRtg -0.3DBPM; Team #28 in D

I don't think using team dRTG is a way to evaluate here. Playstyle matters, as does cast. Plus you've got one team deciding, "forget defense" while the other is trying to play balanced basketball.

I think both are meh on that end up till now. Hali is definitely the better playmaker and shooter while being an excellent, excellent finisher inside, while SGA is the better iso player and finisher I think. SGA is also the better rebounder.

[eyeatoma]

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do.

I know the Nuggets didn't have MPJ either, but I'd argue that SImmons was worth atleast 70-80% of MPJ and Murray combined, given that he was an all star.

So just to make sure I'm understanding...you're arguing for Simmons being an extremely valuable player, and putting down MPJ and Murray (given that he was worth 80% of BOTH of them combined), right?

I'd like to remember this for when we start talking about Embiid's playoff failures because he had no help (Even that "Extremely valuable player Simmons" counts as help!) and when people are arguing Jokic had a stacked roster becasue Murray performed great last year (But remember him and MPJ are only 80% of a Simmons, who couldn't help Embiid win it all). Just want to ensure we're being consistent in our arguments, that's all. I may have misunderstood your post, I'd be happy if you dumbed it down for a simple mind like mine

You are cherry picking what I said. I said until the playoffs.

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