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PG Bulls - Win

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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#121 » by mke_design » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:40 pm

MVP2110 wrote:
mke_design wrote:Sources say Griffin is getting fired. I don’t trust my sources. But this is the first time I’ve heard it from them?

Like he's legit getting fired or he's on the hot seat if they don't improve?


This person I know is well connected. There’s concerns about my trust just because they usually don’t say much, I don’t know them that well, so I don’t really know what to make of it. There’s no timeline so I would read this as turbulence - does that result in a firing at any moment? Probably, if this is accurate.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#122 » by neiLz » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:42 pm

Giannis has been so much better with not holding down turbo and barrelling into guys. he had a quote about it last night:

“They were double-teaming and guys were open,” Antetokounmpo said. “In the pick-and-roll, they were showing hard, guys were slipping (screens), they were open again. When I got the ball in the pocket, they were coming and swarming me. Brook was open. Guys in the corner were open. I was just trying to make the right play.

“There’s going to be games and there’s going to be teams around the league that I’m going to draw so much attention, which sometimes me taking a shot over two guys is not the best shot. Me trying to play in the crowd is not the best shot. I think I’ve gotten to the point that I’ve accepted that.”

He's figuring it out and his efficiency is off the charts.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#123 » by jschligs » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:46 pm

mke_design wrote:
MVP2110 wrote:
mke_design wrote:Sources say Griffin is getting fired. I don’t trust my sources. But this is the first time I’ve heard it from them?

Like he's legit getting fired or he's on the hot seat if they don't improve?


This person I know is well connected. There’s concerns about my trust just because they usually don’t say much, I don’t know them that well, so I don’t really know what to make of it. There’s no timeline so I would read this as turbulence - does that result in a firing at any moment? Probably, if this is accurate.


If it's true, it would make sense to wait for a bad loss to fire. And it would also make sense to make sure you know who you are bringing in to replace him.

I've jumped off any Griff bandwagon. He's done nothing for me through 23 games. If we can get Atkinson or hell, even Stotts, I'd do it in a minute.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#124 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:49 pm

Green in 13 minutes was 12/5/3. MarJon in 13 minutes was 2/0/0. So besides his 12 points Green also had 5 boards and 3 assists. Very nice. Does that mean he'll be a playoff rotation guy? Way too early. But he was a key contributor last night.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#125 » by German Athens » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:52 pm

KD is shooting 52/50/89 and Giannis has still been scoring more efficiently than him. That’s absurd.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#126 » by MissKhriddleton » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:04 pm

sidney lanier wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:We're really doing the thing we did in the Skiles/Kidd era where we're pining for obvious non-NBA talents like Doron Lamb, Nate Wolters, and Roko Ukic to get force-fed minutes just to "see what they have" lol. I'm not saying that I don't understand the sentiment, but no one should be that desperate to think that AJ Green is gonna ever be a factor in meaningful games for a championship contender. Even suggesting that Green might be one of the best 5 defenders on the team is absolute insanity.


You're probably right, but I think people can be forgiven for squinting hard and seeing him as Steve Kerr on the Jordan-Pippen Bulls, even if the reality is his ceiling might be more of a Steve Novak on a John Henson-Jabari Parker Bucks team.

Not sure why we’re going Kerr or Novak when Brynn Forbes is right there who definitely had an impact on our 2021 playoff run. There is sidewalk chalk art to prove it.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#127 » by jimmybones » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:08 pm

neiLz wrote:Giannis has been so much better with not holding down turbo and barrelling into guys. he had a quote about it last night:

“They were double-teaming and guys were open,” Antetokounmpo said. “In the pick-and-roll, they were showing hard, guys were slipping (screens), they were open again. When I got the ball in the pocket, they were coming and swarming me. Brook was open. Guys in the corner were open. I was just trying to make the right play.

“There’s going to be games and there’s going to be teams around the league that I’m going to draw so much attention, which sometimes me taking a shot over two guys is not the best shot. Me trying to play in the crowd is not the best shot. I think I’ve gotten to the point that I’ve accepted that.”

He's figuring it out and his efficiency is off the charts.


This is very promising
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#128 » by pifhluk23 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:17 pm

old skool wrote:Odds & Ends:

To me, the Bucks look much more cohesive of late. As if the players have a better understanding of what they are trying to do. The ball is being funneled defensively, somewhat like past seasons. The offense seems to have a purpose, even if the results are often sketchy.

The rotations are pretty good. Stable and logical. NBA players like that.

The Bucks are a good team in the "clutch", because they don't play the young guys at the end of games. No Beauchamp, Green or Jackson. And often less Portis. That is not to slam the young guys. The Bucks are just better as a team when they have their big salary guys on the court together. Plus, at the end of games, Lillard seems to be more engaged defensively. Not good, just better. Kind of like Grayson Allen-lite.

The Bucks also conserve energy for the end of the game. Giannis had only 5 FGAs and 12 points when he entered the game with 9:00 left in regulation. In the last 9:00 he scored 15 points on 5-7 FGAs, and added another 5 points in OT. Lillard has had similar results in other games.

The Bucks were absurdly efficient in OT, scoring on every possession but one. They missed only 1 FGA (a Lillard 3) and had zero turnovers. Three missed FTAs (7-10 from FT line) were the only offensive weaknesses. It helped that, unlike the OT loss in Chicago, Middleton did not spend the OT on the bench under minutes restriction.

The Bucks have a top heavy roster - we know that. When some of the starters are sitting, veterans like Derozan, hunt weak defenders like Lillard and get easy looks. That does not work as well when a weak defender is backed by Giannis and Lopez.

I think we fans often confuse shooting variances with playing well. First half the Bucks are 12-20 from 3-point. Second half 5-15, while the Bulls were 6-12. Variances happen. Coby White was 6-10 from 3-point. Two of those makes came off broken plays, where White just threw up a shot because the shot clock was winding down.

Assistant coaches seem to be more involved with in-game instruction than they were under Budenholzer. Assistant involvement seems to be organized, with different assistants responsible for different groups of players, without real time input from Griffin.

Beasley is looking useful. He was good offensively for three quarters. After sitting for the first three minutes of the 4th Q, he played the final 14 minutes of the game during which his stat line was 2 points and a barrel of zeros - no misses, no fouls, TOs, rebounds, assists, steals or blocks. Zero. His presence helped space the floor. He facilitated and defended while the high salary stars dominated the ball. Looks like he really understands his role. While he is frustrating, what more could be expected of a vet minimum?

Lillard looked brutal - nothing like the end of game savior he has been so often this season. Looked like he was trying to hide a minor injury/tweak? But looked healthy on that vicious OT frustration slam.


The question I have for this team, is how much of this is on purpose? They know what happened the past few years when they blow out teams during the regular season and then fail hard in the playoffs. This is Dame's style as well, slow start finish strong. You'd think it would be nice to win a few games before the 4th quarter but maybe they are just taking it easy knowing they can win a lot of games just turning it on at the end.

My main concern is the losses to Boston and Indiana.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#129 » by DingleJerry » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:17 pm

jimmybones wrote:
neiLz wrote:Giannis has been so much better with not holding down turbo and barrelling into guys. he had a quote about it last night:

“They were double-teaming and guys were open,” Antetokounmpo said. “In the pick-and-roll, they were showing hard, guys were slipping (screens), they were open again. When I got the ball in the pocket, they were coming and swarming me. Brook was open. Guys in the corner were open. I was just trying to make the right play.

“There’s going to be games and there’s going to be teams around the league that I’m going to draw so much attention, which sometimes me taking a shot over two guys is not the best shot. Me trying to play in the crowd is not the best shot. I think I’ve gotten to the point that I’ve accepted that.”

He's figuring it out and his efficiency is off the charts.


This is very promising


Yea even if it is disjointed at times the O is not the problem. Giannis clearly trending in the right direction on the concerns/nitpicks discussed on here a few weeks ago. Another 6 months of them meshing together and the O should be by far better than we've ever had. Even if you want to bash the coaching on O (which I still would) the talent there is so overwhelming it will still be a good O.

Defensive end is the key and something has to be addressed fairly soon. You're never gonna be top 5 with Dame there and Giannis taking a step back on more cruise control. But basic adjustments we all pine for along with adding G/Wing defender of some kind should be enough to get to mid level top 13ish to give a good shot at the title. My guess is the easiest way to improve 5-10 spots on D rankings is a new coach
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#130 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:38 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Green in 13 minutes was 12/5/3. MarJon in 13 minutes was 2/0/0. So besides his 12 points Green also had 5 boards and 3 assists. Very nice. Does that mean he'll be a playoff rotation guy? Way too early. But he was a key contributor last night.

Very small sample/eye test size but when I was watching him he seemed actively look to set picks for guys to open things up versus aimless running down the court.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#131 » by BuckFan25226 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:49 pm

German Athens wrote:KD is shooting 52/50/89 and Giannis has still been scoring more efficiently than him. That’s absurd.



I think sometimes the media and us fans become enamored with HOW Giannis gets his points and HOW he executes his efficiency.

There aren't many things in the game right now that are prettier than watching KD float around the court and flick jumpers over multiple defenders while making it look like he's not even trying. Guys like Dame, Kyrie, Booker, Luka, Steph also fit in tlifetime. It's beautiful to watch.

Yet we have Giannis who can be 9 for 10 from the field(whos defending, passing, rebounding) occasionally try a post turn around jumper and he's immediately criticized for his shot selection and his "low IQ". I always have to remind myself to enjoy him while he's still here.

Not a chance in hell we'll see another like him in our lifetimes.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#132 » by Sigra » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:14 pm

If we look at teams that dont tank, only Hawks and Pacers are bellow us in defansive rating.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#133 » by emunney » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:15 pm

neiLz wrote:Giannis has been so much better with not holding down turbo and barrelling into guys. he had a quote about it last night:

“They were double-teaming and guys were open,” Antetokounmpo said. “In the pick-and-roll, they were showing hard, guys were slipping (screens), they were open again. When I got the ball in the pocket, they were coming and swarming me. Brook was open. Guys in the corner were open. I was just trying to make the right play.

“There’s going to be games and there’s going to be teams around the league that I’m going to draw so much attention, which sometimes me taking a shot over two guys is not the best shot. Me trying to play in the crowd is not the best shot. I think I’ve gotten to the point that I’ve accepted that.”

He's figuring it out and his efficiency is off the charts.


He's keeping his dribble alive longer, which is huge. Good on the short roll without a dribble, sure, but when he's driving, he's often not picking the ball up until he's well into the paint and can use those long legs to get an edge from a near-standstill. It's an important step toward actually utilizing the ball-handling skill that makes him so unique.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#134 » by rilamann » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:26 pm

AJ Green's ceiling is probably 8th or 9th man on a good team.

But he's one of those rare 8th or 9th men who can come in for 10 minutes and completely change the outcome of a playoff game. Just like Bryn Forbes.

No way do we sweep Miami in 2021 and you could make make a case (Given our playoff history vs Miami) that we maybe don't even make out of the first round in 2021 if Bryn Forbes doesn't get red hot against the Heat.

Bucks are 2-8 vs the Heat in the playoffs in the Giannis era without Bryn Forbes. With Bryn Forbes, the Bucks are 4-0 in the playoffs against Miami.

If the Bucks have the 2021 version of Bryn Forbes against Miami in 2023 like they did in 2021. The Bucks win the series in 5 or 6 games and maybe they end up back in the NBA Finals just like in 2021.

Remember, the Bucks lost 4-1 to Miami last season, but the Bucks blew 12+ point leads in the 4th quarter in games 4 and 5. All it would have taken is for a guy like Bryn Forbes or a guy like AJ Green to have come in for 10/15 minutes and get hot to have changed the outcome of both of those games.

Imagine if the Bucks had Forbes or Green in game 6 vs Boston in 2022 and they had gotten hot.

All it would take is for AJ Green to get hot in the playoffs for a game or 2 against a team like Boston and it would increase our chances of getting back to the Finals exponentially.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#135 » by German Athens » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:55 pm

BuckFan25226 wrote:
German Athens wrote:KD is shooting 52/50/89 and Giannis has still been scoring more efficiently than him. That’s absurd.



I think sometimes the media and us fans become enamored with HOW Giannis gets his points and HOW he executes his efficiency.

There aren't many things in the game right now that are prettier than watching KD float around the court and flick jumpers over multiple defenders while making it look like he's not even trying. Guys like Dame, Kyrie, Booker, Luka, Steph also fit in tlifetime. It's beautiful to watch.

Yet we have Giannis who can be 9 for 10 from the field(whos defending, passing, rebounding) occasionally try a post turn around jumper and he's immediately criticized for his shot selection and his "low IQ". I always have to remind myself to enjoy him while he's still here.

Not a chance in hell we'll see another like him in our lifetimes.


I think Giannis is probably the most slandered mega-star the league has seen in quite awhile. Like I think his and Jokic’s positions in the league should be pretty unimpeachable at this point, but look around at some prominent sites, and you’ll see him ranked 4th.

I think the discourse for the past 6 seasons has been more about what he can’t do than what he can, and that’s the root of a lot of the disrespect. They’ve won, too. He could win a couple more titles these next few years, and I wouldn’t expect that to change. The platitudes have won.

Some of this is on Giannis because he continued to shoot the 3, or made some pretty inexplicable decisions, but it’s not as if we haven’t seen other all-time greats have weird blunders, and not have that stick in the same way it has to Giannis.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#136 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:02 pm

Sigra wrote:If we look at teams that dont tank, only Hawks and Pacers are bellow us in defansive rating.

If we look at teams that dont tank, only 76ers and Pacers are above us in offensive rating.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#137 » by MVP2110 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:08 pm

The Bucks are now back down to 23rd in Defensive Rating. The offense is awesome(3rd in ORTG) and good enough to carry them to wins against bad teams. But that defensive number just flat out isn't going to cut it if the Bucks want to win a title.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#138 » by rilamann » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:17 pm

fan230 wrote:Does any of this hung over talks have any grain of truth? If so, it is worrisome, if not, it is really unfortunate to have this circulating.


Even if a guy isn't actually hungover, it is still kind of worrisome that you're playing in a way that is causing people to bring the up the possibility multiple times.

Like Giannis could play in the league 30 years and no one would ever question if he was ever playing hungover.

And I am sure guy who was recently divorced and hell bent on going to Miami would never play a game hungover.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#139 » by mediocrityrules » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:18 pm

Yeah, the defense is still in the toilet. Regardless of what some people are trying to convince themselves of on here, it is not improving. It is stagnant, and languishing down the bottom end of the table. It's not showing signs of anything right now but being what it is, and that is woefully not good enough for playoffs.
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Re: PG Bulls - Win 

Post#140 » by BUCKnation » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:18 pm

I like what AJ Green brings, think he is more playable than just a 3 pt shot or nothing type player. He gives good effort and I don't think he gets killed defensively. He needs to shoot better than he has this year, but he could easily be a contributor.

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