Game 24: Pacers at Bucks - 12/13/23 - 7:00 - BSWI

[MissKhriddleton]

I could see a clowning here being AG’s knockout blow. You can’t lose to the same bottom tier eastern conference playoff team 3 times in a month. You just can’t.

[RiotPunch]

I could see a clowning here being AG’s knockout blow. You can’t lose to the same bottom tier eastern conference playoff team 3 times in a month. You just can’t.

It pains me to low-key be hoping that is exactly what happens.

[mediocrityrules]

Can’t wait to see Grief put Beas on a one on one island against Hali, again.

(This is not a knock on Beas. I was wrong about him and his shooting/shot selection has been fantastic. It’s a knock on the d1ckhead asking him to do things he shouldn’t be asked to do)

To be fair, this describes most of the team on D.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I could see a clowning here being AG’s knockout blow. You can’t lose to the same bottom tier eastern conference playoff team 3 times in a month. You just can’t.

It pains me to low-key be hoping that is exactly what happens.

The issue is that a move away from Griff shouldn't be dictated by what we see on the court, but rather what we got lined up. If we can get Kenny A or Stotts or ???, then make a move regardless. If not, ride it out because 2x Head Coach Joe Prunty isnt solving any problems.

[tedbrogen]

I could see a clowning here being AG’s knockout blow. You can’t lose to the same bottom tier eastern conference playoff team 3 times in a month. You just can’t.

In that case, I’m rooting for the Pacers to break the record for points scored in a game and Hali to put up 80 himself.

[RiotPunch]

I could see a clowning here being AG’s knockout blow. You can’t lose to the same bottom tier eastern conference playoff team 3 times in a month. You just can’t.

It pains me to low-key be hoping that is exactly what happens.

The issue is that a move away from Griff shouldn't be dictated by what we see on the court, but rather what we got lined up. If we can get Kenny A or Stotts or ???, then make a move regardless. If not, ride it out because 2x Head Coach Joe Prunty isnt solving any problems.

Obviously. I have faith in Horst to have contingency plans in place here. Atkinson, Stotts, D'Antoni........ Rivers. No way he moves forward with Prunty, no way in hell.

[LittleRooster]

It pains me to low-key be hoping that is exactly what happens.

The issue is that a move away from Griff shouldn't be dictated by what we see on the court, but rather what we got lined up. If we can get Kenny A or Stotts or ???, then make a move regardless. If not, ride it out because 2x Head Coach Joe Prunty isnt solving any problems.

Obviously. I have faith in Horst to have contingency plans in place here. Atkinson, Stotts, D'Antoni........ Rivers. No way he moves forward with Prunty, no way in hell.

He did once before allbeit in very different circumstances


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MissKhriddleton]

Would not be crazy to roll with Prunty for a few weeks while they search for a replacement. They’ll get somebody.

Atkinson may never have an opportunity this good again. Stotts and Doc can play it off as coming out of retirement for one last favor/hurrah and call it a career with no harm done if it doesn’t work out.

It’s a free ride to the 2 seed in a very winnable Eastern Conference with two of the most laid back superstars to ever play. A 6 month commitment for a shot at a championship, and even if you fail, all of the criticism is going to come back to Griff.

And **** it, give me Prunty for the rest of the season at this point. We’re close to JKidd levels of poisoning the team imo.

[MickeyDavis]

Let's stop the Prunty talk, good God

[El Pooch Grande]

Would be pretty funny if it was left up to Prunty to once again clean up a coaching disaster (Kidd, Griff?)

[old skool]

If all we saw of NBA basketball was last season and this season so far, how would we evaluate various coaches compared to Griffin?

Mike Budenholzer?

Monty Williams?

Greg Popovich?

Budenholzer had a great regular season in 2022-23, that looked like fools gold with a first round playoff collapse. I can see anyone not wanting him as a championship coach moving forward. Still, after 23 games a year ago, he had the Bucks at 17-6!

Monty Williams coached a 45 win Suns team that lost in the second round, even though they added Kevin Durant to a roster that included Devin Booker and Chris Paul. That might encourage someone to want him to coach their team - until they see what he has going on with a 2-21 Detroit Pistons team so far this season. Detroit does not have the talent that the Bucks have, but they proved last season that they are better than 2-21. It must be the coach.

Greg Popovich coached the Spurs to a 22 win season in 2022-23, but his team has regressed to 3-19 even though they added a generational talent that looks like a lock to dominate the NBA. Nothing there to like.

The problem with Griffin is that he is expected to be getting more out of the Bucks lineup after the roster was upgraded with the addition of Lillard. The results have been near disastrous; a 16-7 record but too many close games and a team that looks like it is in chaos. Of course Griffin was not hired to replicate the regular season success of 2022-23, rather he was hire to make changes so that the Bucks are better prepared for the post season.

If we are appalled at the losing Williams and Popovich are overseeing, we can't want them on the Bucks sideline. Some people might argue that Williams and Popovich shouldn't be judged on their results over the last season's 82 games and the 20+ games played so far this season. Not enough sample size and not comparable roster talent.

But wait, is the Bucks roster really improved, having lost Allen and Holiday for a storied ball-dominant PG that struggles on defense and is shooting .419 FGA% and .350 3FGA% while carrying a salary that hog tied the rest of the roster so much that vet minimum player are needed to fill major roles in the rotation? Did anyone think that a new coach could change things so that the Bucks would not be fools gold come playoff time without any learning curve and bumpy stretches?

We fans can smugly lambaste a first year coach after 3 games or 23 games, and we might be right. But if we are honest, we would also dismiss Williams and Popovich for their lack of success. And we can't endorse Budenholzer who three times in five seasons couldn't win a title (or even reach the Finals) with a #1 overall seed.

Under Griffin, the Bucks have looked shaky. Very bad at times. Worse than a year ago, even though the expectation is that they should be better, not worse. Just like teams coached by Williams and Popovich.

At the end of the day, we fans are better at identifying things and people that we dislike, than we are at knowing what and who really makes the team better. It's easy to insist, without accountability, that Green or Beauchamp or Jackson should play over Payne or Beasley or Connaughton. It's even easier to show disgust for a coach by calling him names - nothing solves a problem like name calling.

I don't know if Griffin will succeed as Bucks coach. I HOPE he succeeds. And if he doesn't I HOPE he is replaced in short order, as the Antetokounmpo window will close more quickly than any of us want. But I recognize that I don't understand what Griffin is trying to teach the Bucks players to do, nor do I understand what the upside come Spring can be for what he is trying to teach and implement. I see the uneven results, but don't know how much to blame Griffin for Lillard shooting like a end of rotation player, or for Middleton to be averaging 12 ppg or for the Bucks to be outrebounded more often than not. I HOPE the Bucks win against the Pacers, but watching Williams and Popovich struggle tells me that maybe it is not the wisest thing to make absolute judgements based on short term results because players impact winning more than coaches.

[JayMKE]

Ive been at a loss since game 1 with Griff, he’s clearly not the guy but it seems unlikely the team will be bad enough to justify firing him on record so basically a lame duck who hopefully gets fired in offseason. Watching the D, Im not counting on them figuring anything out for extended period of time. Losing 1 year of our contending.

[BigO]

At this point, I'd much rather go with Prunty than Griffin. Could he be worse? No.

It's much harder getting someone mid-season, but they should be looking. I don't want Rivers (although he's still a step up) because whoever they get is unlikely to be fired at the end of the season (firing three coaches in a year?).

They are in a bind. In retrospect, Nurse was the obvious choice.

[sidney lanier]

I don't know if Griffin will succeed as Bucks coach. I HOPE he succeeds. And if he doesn't I HOPE he is replaced in short order, as the Antetokounmpo window will close more quickly than any of us want. But I recognize that I don't understand what Griffin is trying to teach the Bucks players to do, nor do I understand what the upside come Spring can be for what he is trying to teach and implement. I see the uneven results, but don't know how much to blame Griffin for Lillard shooting like a end of rotation player, or for Middleton to be averaging 12 ppg or for the Bucks to be outrebounded more often than not. I HOPE the Bucks win against the Pacers, but watching Williams and Popovich struggle tells me that maybe it is not the wisest thing to make absolute judgements based on short term results because players impact winning more than coaches.

What a pleasure to read a thoughtful, insightful post. Well done.

Like you I've been thinking about Monty Williams standing there with his arms folded as his Pistons team reels off 20 losses in a row. Player deficiencies will rip that "I'm a Genius" button off your lapel in a heartbeat.

Griffin hasn't yet gotten his button, but he's gotten plenty of challenges to deal with -- great expectations, two megastars, one of whom superficially should be good in the pick-and-roll but is instead a diver to the basket who makes that play easy to defend, and a supporting cast that is on-again, off-again. He's managed to compile a good record without earning style points.

He'll continue to attract hysterical, misplaced criticism here, but I'm good with watching his journey continue.

[MissKhriddleton]

Who ever thought Monty Williams was a genius? And Pop is a senile old man with a team that’s purposely tanking to set themselves up for the future.

[Profound23]

Y'all know what time it is.

[sidney lanier]

Who ever thought Monty Williams was a genius? And Pop is a senile old man with a team that’s purposely tanking to set themselves up for the future.

After hitting the jackpot, that would be a strange case of lottery addiction, although I've heard it's ruined many a home.

[BigO]

I don't know if Griffin will succeed as Bucks coach. I HOPE he succeeds. And if he doesn't I HOPE he is replaced in short order, as the Antetokounmpo window will close more quickly than any of us want. But I recognize that I don't understand what Griffin is trying to teach the Bucks players to do, nor do I understand what the upside come Spring can be for what he is trying to teach and implement. I see the uneven results, but don't know how much to blame Griffin for Lillard shooting like a end of rotation player, or for Middleton to be averaging 12 ppg or for the Bucks to be outrebounded more often than not. I HOPE the Bucks win against the Pacers, but watching Williams and Popovich struggle tells me that maybe it is not the wisest thing to make absolute judgements based on short term results because players impact winning more than coaches.

What a pleasure to read a thoughtful, insightful post. Well done.

Like you I've been thinking about Monty Williams standing there with his arms folded as his Pistons team reels off 20 losses in a row. Player deficiencies will rip that "I'm a Genius" button off your lapel in a heartbeat.

Griffin hasn't yet gotten his button, but he's gotten plenty of challenges to deal with -- great expectations, two megastars, one of whom superficially should be good in the pick-and-roll but is instead a diver to the basket who makes that play easy to defend, and a supporting cast that is on-again, off-again. He's managed to compile a good record without earning style points.

He'll continue to attract hysterical, misplaced criticism here, but I'm good with watching his journey continue.

Not sure what misplaced criticism you're referring to.

Is the criticism that he is playing weak defending guards too far out on the court, thus allowing every guard they play to get into the paint, a misplaced criticism?

Or that he is playing Giannis too far out on the court and doubling players too far out on the court, a misplaced criticism?

I could go on, but my point is that there are, at least to me, obvious flaws that he refuses to react to.

Under Bud, the Bucks defense took a huge step back when Lopez was hurt that one year (he continued to play the drop even without Lopez). They were like 15th in the league. So I expected some regression exchanging Jrue for Lillard.

But being one of the worst defensive teams in the league with Giannis and Lopez on the roster is not acceptable, unless we can see incremental improvement.

This isn't about how you treat a coach and giving him a chance. It's about having an open window for a limited period and trying to maximize it. If the Bucks had the Bulls talent, I'd say give Griffin a year or two. We don't have that luxury.

[emunney]

I still have a very hard time imagining Griffin getting fired yet. FO will make roster changes first. I bet we see a trade before the end of the year. Marques tipped it.

Read on Twitter

[emunney]

People are asking for blind faith in Griffin, whereas Pop and Monty Williams (who nobody wanted to coach the Bucks, iirc, but beside the point) have established careers and an evidentiary argument for why they can be a HC of a contending team in the NBA. Of course, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

I think we all wish we had more to go on with Griffin. I suspect the FO feels the same way, along with ownership. And I think they are going to work affirmatively to get more to go on before they make a decision on him.