ImageImageImageImage

Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread

Moderators: UCFJayBird, UCF, Knightro, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior

User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 39,341
And1: 9,002
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#321 » by drsd » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:16 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
tooler wrote:I know we've been talking about a difficult December, but this next stretch didn't fully sink in until now. Yikes. 13 of the next 18 on the road as well, where we're only .500 at the moment. Everyone strap in for the hot takes.



Playing .500 on the road is actually very good. If we do that I will take that gladly. Play .500 on the road, dominate at home, that's what the good teams do.


Image




Win "every" game at home and beat bad teams on the road is a path to a 70% winning rate; which, actually, is what Orlando's record is now.

That averages to a 57 win season.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 37,920
And1: 15,074
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#322 » by basketballRob » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:17 pm

Franz and Paolo are the leaders right now. I'm not sure Wendell and Fultz are willing to take a backseat and defer to them.

I remember Otis Smith getting rid of Tony Battie and Grant Hill just because he wanted Jameer and Dwight to be the co-captains and leaders of the team.



Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
MasterGMer
Analyst
Posts: 3,684
And1: 766
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
   

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#323 » by MasterGMer » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:47 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Knightro wrote:
OnlyFranz22 wrote:Love how Cole, Mo, & Joe have been playing off the bench. Hope Joe still gets his mins once everyone is back. Def gonna be a logjam.


I am not concerned with Joe's minutes. I suspect the bench will remain the same as it has been which is Cole-Gary-Joe-Isaac-Moritz.

I am, however, concerned with exactly what they plan to do with Goga and Black when Carter and Fultz are ready. I really don't think you can just slide those two guys back to the third string.
Rumors are that they could come back this week. I think we should start them out on the deep bench and put them in if we need a boost. I don't think you could just throw them back in the SL or disturb the second unit. Cole can play off the ball with Fultz.

Having them back will be insurance if some gets injured.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Is your source legit? If they come back this week, that will be Christmas for me for sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
meatwad4343
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,509
And1: 494
Joined: Mar 02, 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#324 » by meatwad4343 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:56 pm

I don't know how they plan on handling the center minutes but I don't know how you can go back to burying goga on the bench with our record with him in the SL and how lights out he's been defensively
Residual-Heat
Starter
Posts: 2,355
And1: 1,398
Joined: Feb 03, 2023
 

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#325 » by Residual-Heat » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:58 pm

SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter


:x

atleast they went in :banghead:
Optimus_Steel
RealGM
Posts: 38,330
And1: 12,234
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Location: Winter Garden, FL
   

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#326 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:09 pm

basketballRob wrote:Franz and Paolo are the leaders right now. I'm not sure Wendell and Fultz are willing to take a backseat and defer to them.

I remember Otis Smith getting rid of Tony Battie and Grant Hill just because he wanted Jameer and Dwight to be the co-captains and leaders of the team.



Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app


Not so sure that is the case with Fultz and Wendell. Paolo and Franz are the top dogs unquestioned, and then Suggs as well.

That does remind me of when Doc Rivers sent Darrell Armstrong packing because he wanted to force Tmac to be the leader, then the team proceeded to win 21 games, including 19 in a row...nice one Doc....
aka: prorl
User avatar
VFX
RealGM
Posts: 18,901
And1: 16,519
Joined: May 30, 2016

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#327 » by VFX » Tue Dec 12, 2023 10:14 pm

Crazy to think its almost Christmas and Orlando has only lost 1 game at home and its to Dallas.

No, I don't count a 1 point loss to Atlanta in Mexico City a "home" game.
Residual-Heat
Starter
Posts: 2,355
And1: 1,398
Joined: Feb 03, 2023
 

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#328 » by Residual-Heat » Tue Dec 12, 2023 10:51 pm

It seems like 45+ wins is a realistic outcome for this team as is. So what happens if we traded for a good guard. Like Immanuel Quickley? I really wonder if a guy like that can take us to top 4 in the east.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 37,920
And1: 15,074
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#329 » by basketballRob » Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:17 pm

User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 31,940
And1: 5,505
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#330 » by fendilim » Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:58 am

ChosenSavior wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter


:x


:(

The hitch is back
Image
cedric76
RealGM
Posts: 16,284
And1: 3,741
Joined: May 28, 2005

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#331 » by cedric76 » Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:08 am

fendilim wrote:
ChosenSavior wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter


:x


:(

The hitch is back



I m one of the biggest fultz fan, but this has me worrying, I think fultz won't be in our starting lineup for long
Suggs, AB, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, TDS , Jett
Franz, TDS, Panda
P5, JI, Panda, Moe
Wcj, Goga, Moe
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 39,341
And1: 9,002
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#332 » by drsd » Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:46 am

All of this Fultz v Black conversation makes me think of Bitadze even more. These last two games he has had very effective two-man sets with Suggs. Those two have a very compatible game.

Right now: I cannot see how Black stays a starter AND I cannot see benching Bitadze.
User avatar
KillMonger
RealGM
Posts: 20,856
And1: 11,306
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#333 » by KillMonger » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:44 am

thoughts about what we're going to do with goga going forward? he's unrestricted and i'm pretty sure he's going to be in demand....what do you see happening with goga?
Image
User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 31,940
And1: 5,505
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#334 » by fendilim » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:54 am

cedric76 wrote:
fendilim wrote:
ChosenSavior wrote:
:(

The hitch is back



I m one of the biggest fultz fan, but this has me worrying, I think fultz won't be in our starting lineup for long

Well, i’m worried for him but not for the team.
Image
User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 31,940
And1: 5,505
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#335 » by fendilim » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:55 am

KillMonger wrote:thoughts about what we're going to do with goga going forward? he's unrestricted and i'm pretty sure he's going to be in demand....what do you see happening with goga?

Have to face reality and deal with it.
Image
jezzerinho
Analyst
Posts: 3,229
And1: 2,257
Joined: Jul 08, 2019
   

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#336 » by jezzerinho » Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am

drsd wrote:All of this Fultz v Black conversation makes me think of Bitadze even more. These last two games he has had very effective two-man sets with Suggs. Those two have a very compatible game.

Right now: I cannot see how Black stays a starter AND I cannot see benching Bitadze.


December 13th today. 2 days from the trade window.

Suddenly and magically this week, Fultz and WCJ are back from their strangely lengthy injuries, ready for action.

Now I don't believe Fultz has much trade value bar his expiring salary. But I find it hard to believe that a move/s is/are not in the offing involving them both.

I said in the summer the Magic would use the first quarter to try lineups and evaluate, with a view to consolidating in Dec. I still believe that's what is going on. I think Orl have had a trade offer/s on the table for some time, which explains how they've shelved Fultz and WCJ despite supposedly minor injuries. Guess we'll find out soon.
jezzerinho
Analyst
Posts: 3,229
And1: 2,257
Joined: Jul 08, 2019
   

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#337 » by jezzerinho » Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:46 am

The reality is that, with everyone fit, we have

Fultz/Black/Anthony
Suggs/Harris/
Wagner/Ingles/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac/Okeke
Carter Jr/Bitadze/Wagner

Plus Jett and decent deep guys like Kevon Harris.

Of those 14 quality guys, only 5 are not to be found in the current top 200 players in the NBA by EPM. Carter would also be in the top 100, based on last year's play and Fultz in the top 200.

11 of 14 players are top 200 quality. So who gets benched? Top 150 are starter level, on average. So we almost have 2 starter level teams, but we can't give enough minutes to everyone and, more.importantly, we won't be able to pay everyone.

We have to consolidate. Turn 4 or 5 v good players into 2 great players, or at the worst, 2 or 3 into a v good player and future picks
User avatar
SOUL
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 59,494
And1: 41,168
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: Orl★ndo
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#338 » by SOUL » Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:48 am

jezzerinho wrote:December 13th today. 2 days from the trade window.

Suddenly and magically this week, Fultz and WCJ are back from their strangely lengthy injuries, ready for action.

Now I don't believe Fultz has much trade value bar his expiring salary. But I find it hard to believe that a move/s is/are not in the offing involving them both.

I said in the summer the Magic would use the first quarter to try lineups and evaluate, with a view to consolidating in Dec. I still believe that's what is going on. I think Orl have had a trade offer/s on the table for some time, which explains how they've shelved Fultz and WCJ despite supposedly minor injuries. Guess we'll find out soon.


Not sure I follow this train of logic.

WCJ had surgery and Fultz has knee tendinitis, something that could plague him for a while. I wouldn't call either of them "minor" exactly. I could see either of them being back by now if we hadn't gone on a 9 game winning streak and the season went off the rails, but if they're being precautionary, this pretty much lines up with the Magic M.O. of being conservative.

Players who are targets for a trade deadline trade are usually playing more minutes to be showcased, not shelved. And unless you're insinuating Fultz's injury is fake and WCJ had a fake Utah injury and surgery, not sure it holds any weight. It also means that they had to have known Goga would fit in seamlessly and not struggled at all being a 3rd stringer before it all happened, and also be okay with relying on Goga, Moe and an injury-riddled Isaac as our bigs.

Thirdly, WCJ is on a great contract and Goga is a UFA who may not re-sign if someone gives him a big contract, while Fultz probably has minimal or very specific value. Honestly, I could even see them just keeping Fultz this year and letting him be unrestricted and picking where he wants to go if we weren't going forward with him and the value isn't there (like Fournier value) for a trade.

And lastly, you don't just randomly shelve two starters to start a season who were helpful in your best stretch of play since our rebuilding years since Dwight left, sullying momentum built over the last half of last season + a summer's full of work.
www.rareslums.com // please support my writing!
User avatar
SOUL
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 59,494
And1: 41,168
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: Orl★ndo
     

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#339 » by SOUL » Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:52 am

I do think either WCJ or Fultz can or will be moved/not on the roster in terms of what our team may look like in legit contender years, but this season thus far is showing the reasons why we don't just trade everybody and have no depth because we are massively injured every single year.

I think guys like Fultz, Harris, Okeke, future picks, even Jett can legitimately be on the table in terms of actively looking to move, with WCJ being a tier under that due to Goga being UFA and Moe is not a starting level C.
www.rareslums.com // please support my writing!
jezzerinho
Analyst
Posts: 3,229
And1: 2,257
Joined: Jul 08, 2019
   

Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread 

Post#340 » by jezzerinho » Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:58 am

I'm not saying anything was fake, just speculating that the extended recovery period is "interesting". These players don't need to be showcased, as the league knows their value already.

The injuries sparked Goga and Black getting opportunities. Now that they're proven good players, certainly in GogaBit's case, whatever trade offer they had can be contemplated.

I agree it's possible Fultz isn't part of this. His tics are back sadly and his value is v low. He may just be kept for this season and then let go. But I think its also possible he's a salary match or an expiring for a team looking to get off salary.

Return to Orlando Magic