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Trade Ideas

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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1481 » by JonFromVA » Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:16 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Assuming you're talking about Embiid, that would be a hard pass from me. He's had enough talent around him to get the Sixers to at least an ECF, and he can't get it done.

There won't be any consolidating for an MVP candidate anyway with Mitchell on an expiring contract. Take the best prospect and picks you can get for each one of them, reset the timeline, and hope one of them, or Mobley develops into an MVP candidate.

I wouldn't hate Embiid as much as you but agree that his game doesn't translate so well to the playoffs-- foul-baiting just doesn't work as well. But Luka's also on the list of MVP candidates with a reason to ask out of their current situation. Giannis was there recently, but the extension probably changes that.

I do not see Mobley becoming an MVP candidate. The rate of improvement just doesn't seem to be there. To me it looks like he's building into a Bam Adebayo level player where Wemby's going to make everything Mobley does look... conventionally great but not special. I think Garland has a better chance of being a Nash-style MVP, but I don't see turning Mitchell into prospects as doing anything for the ceiling of the team.


I don't see any version of the future where Dallas trades Luka for an expiring Mitchell, Allen, our 2024 1st, and whatever other pick we're able to trade. That's just not going to be a thing with OKC, the Jazz, and Pelicans all sitting on an embarrassment of riches in terms of trade assets.

If we can get a good young player from any of the Nets, OKC, or Pels and picks for Mitchell, that's a win. If we can get a good young player and pick for Allen from Dallas or the Pels, that's a win. If things don't work out with Mitchell, then our window gets kicked down the road a couple years. That's the bet we made when we traded for him.


What does Luka want? What does Mitchell want? Unfortunately that matters for teams looking to spend their "embarrassment of riches".

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing going after Luka is a realistic goal, but weird stuff happens - like getting Mitchell in the first place.

Random factors:

1) Cleveland has the largest population of Slovenians outside of Slovenia.

2) The Mavs should prefer to trade him East than to a West team like the Thunder, Jazz, or Pels.

3) Cuban may be uninterested in a rebuild and prefer replacing his star with a star.

4) Dallas would not be Mitchell's first choice, but if he doesn't like his opportunity to sign with the Knicks or Nets; it's a pretty popular destination especially when compared to those teams with picks to burn.

5) Cleveland is presumably not Luka's first choice, but getting to play with Garland and Mobley should be a big plus for a 24 year old.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1482 » by jbk1234 » Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:26 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:I wouldn't hate Embiid as much as you but agree that his game doesn't translate so well to the playoffs-- foul-baiting just doesn't work as well. But Luka's also on the list of MVP candidates with a reason to ask out of their current situation. Giannis was there recently, but the extension probably changes that.

I do not see Mobley becoming an MVP candidate. The rate of improvement just doesn't seem to be there. To me it looks like he's building into a Bam Adebayo level player where Wemby's going to make everything Mobley does look... conventionally great but not special. I think Garland has a better chance of being a Nash-style MVP, but I don't see turning Mitchell into prospects as doing anything for the ceiling of the team.


I don't see any version of the future where Dallas trades Luka for an expiring Mitchell, Allen, our 2024 1st, and whatever other pick we're able to trade. That's just not going to be a thing with OKC, the Jazz, and Pelicans all sitting on an embarrassment of riches in terms of trade assets.

If we can get a good young player from any of the Nets, OKC, or Pels and picks for Mitchell, that's a win. If we can get a good young player and pick for Allen from Dallas or the Pels, that's a win. If things don't work out with Mitchell, then our window gets kicked down the road a couple years. That's the bet we made when we traded for him.

A team might prefer real, developed players rather than picks. Heck, Portland just did even though they're tanking. Mark Cuban may not have the stomach to wait on years of picks to mature.


Portland got plenty of picks, flipped Jrue, and ended up with two guys who have significant injury histories.
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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1483 » by toooskies » Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:56 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I don't see any version of the future where Dallas trades Luka for an expiring Mitchell, Allen, our 2024 1st, and whatever other pick we're able to trade. That's just not going to be a thing with OKC, the Jazz, and Pelicans all sitting on an embarrassment of riches in terms of trade assets.

If we can get a good young player from any of the Nets, OKC, or Pels and picks for Mitchell, that's a win. If we can get a good young player and pick for Allen from Dallas or the Pels, that's a win. If things don't work out with Mitchell, then our window gets kicked down the road a couple years. That's the bet we made when we traded for him.

A team might prefer real, developed players rather than picks. Heck, Portland just did even though they're tanking. Mark Cuban may not have the stomach to wait on years of picks to mature.


Portland got plenty of picks, flipped Jrue, and ended up with two guys who have significant injury histories.

One of those guys is the 6th man of the year from last year and the other got DPOY buzz two years ago (but his teammate won it). If either one is healthy at the deadline they can be moved for 1st-rounders.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1484 » by ijspeelman » Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:45 pm

We could grab a sleeper big in Nathan Knight or Usman Garuba. Trying to keep things cheap and not get rid of a lot of assets to try some of these guys out (like we did with Moses Brown in 21-22)

If we are not going to play Isaiah Mobley to try him out as a back-up big, we should try to move on to someone that could play some minutes
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1485 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:23 pm

ijspeelman wrote:We could grab a sleeper big in Nathan Knight or Usman Garuba. Trying to keep things cheap and not get rid of a lot of assets to try some of these guys out (like we did with Moses Brown in 21-22)

If we are not going to play Isaiah Mobley to try him out as a back-up big, we should try to move on to someone that could play some minutes


At this point, I'm willing to watch tape on Cousins playing in the Puerto Rican league.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1486 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:18 pm

Dwight Howard is still out there guys lol
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1487 » by ijspeelman » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:28 pm

I think I prefer Damian Jones to both these guys. As Iwasawitness said in a different thread, and I agree, Damian was awful game one, but hasn't been too bad since. I just don't trust that he's a guy that gets playoff minutes even in a utility role.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1488 » by JonFromVA » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:51 pm

ijspeelman wrote:I think I prefer Damian Jones to both these guys. As Iwasawitness said in a different thread, and I agree, Damian was awful game one, but hasn't been too bad since. I just don't trust that he's a guy that gets playoff minutes even in a utility role.


Agreed, I think Jones is showing signs of life, might want to give some of these guys a minute.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1489 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:12 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:I think I prefer Damian Jones to both these guys. As Iwasawitness said in a different thread, and I agree, Damian was awful game one, but hasn't been too bad since. I just don't trust that he's a guy that gets playoff minutes even in a utility role.


Agreed, I think Jones is showing signs of life, might want to give some of these guys a minute.


You guys have some low expectations. That guy legitimately frightens me whenever he's on the court.
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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1490 » by ijspeelman » Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:51 am

I wonder if Deni Avdija is available and if so, how much would we need to give up. He’s having a career year from long range (low sample), has the ability to be a secondary playmaker, and is a good wing defender.

Could be a good slot into Wade’s spot in the line-up

His on-off for DRB% has been positive every year of his career so I wouldn’t feel bad subbing out Wade.

I’ve kinda become out on Wade. When we were lacking shooting and a “true wing” last year, he was the guy we needed because he was a shooter and could play formidable defense. We now have higher sights than that and need someone who can do this while providing playmaking, shot creation, or something else.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1491 » by JujitsuFlip » Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:10 am

ijspeelman wrote:I wonder if Deni Avdija is available and if so, how much would we need to give up. He’s having a career year from long range (low sample), has the ability to be a secondary playmaker, and is a good wing defender.

Could be a good slot into Wade’s spot in the line-up

His on-off for DRB% has been positive every year of his career so I wouldn’t feel bad subbing out Wade.

I’ve kinda become out on Wade. When we were lacking shooting and a “true wing” last year, he was the guy we needed because he was a shooter and could play formidable defense. We now have higher sights than that and need someone who can do this while providing playmaking, shot creation, or something else.
I thought his extension would make him ineligible for trades but i guess not.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1492 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:28 am

ijspeelman wrote:I wonder if Deni Avdija is available and if so, how much would we need to give up. He’s having a career year from long range (low sample), has the ability to be a secondary playmaker, and is a good wing defender.

Could be a good slot into Wade’s spot in the line-up

His on-off for DRB% has been positive every year of his career so I wouldn’t feel bad subbing out Wade.

I’ve kinda become out on Wade. When we were lacking shooting and a “true wing” last year, he was the guy we needed because he was a shooter and could play formidable defense. We now have higher sights than that and need someone who can do this while providing playmaking, shot creation, or something else.


I don't see the Wizards trading anyone under 25 who isn't a complete bust. I really don't see them trading the only prospect they didn't miss on in the last decade for anything reasonable. Also, you have to be really careful with advanced stats on rotation players on really bad teams. IIIRC Cedi had the best advanced numbers on defense Sexton's rookie year.

I'm not bullish on Wade, but I'm pretty satisfied with the skill set he has, and the value he adds, given the amount he makes.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1493 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:13 pm

I wanna trade Rubio and Wade for old man Robert Covington.

Idk how the Cavs convince the 76ers to do it but maybe there's a way.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1494 » by jbk1234 » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:15 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:I wanna trade Rubio and Wade for old man Robert Covington.

Idk how the Cavs convince the 76ers to do it but maybe there's a way.


They can't. The Sixers are saving that cap space. Also, I'm not convinced the current version of RoCo is better than Wade.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1495 » by ijspeelman » Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:19 pm

From here, how do we get more depth?

I say everyone, but Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley are off the table right now (I think Allen is too, but I can see an argument for him not being included).

I think the realistic guys to be traded are Bates, Okoro, Wade, and any of the filler (Jerome, Jones, Merrill). I think packaging Bates and Okoro/Wade (and filler if needed) may actually result in (a) solid role player(s). The issue is Okoro and Wade are currently rotational pieces in our system and we'd be swapping one-for-one. I think if a trade occurs you almost need to sweeten the deal with Bates to either get an upgrade on Okoro/Wade or get more players of Okoro/Wade's quality, but just have more of them.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1496 » by toooskies » Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:35 pm

ijspeelman wrote:From here, how do we get more depth?

I say everyone, but Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley are off the table right now (I think Allen is too, but I can see an argument for him not being included).

I think the realistic guys to be traded are Bates, Okoro, Wade, and any of the filler (Jerome, Jones, Merrill). I think packaging Bates and Okoro/Wade (and filler if needed) may actually result in (a) solid role player(s). The issue is Okoro and Wade are currently rotational pieces in our system and we'd be swapping one-for-one. I think if a trade occurs you almost need to sweeten the deal with Bates to either get an upgrade on Okoro/Wade or get more players of Okoro/Wade's quality, but just have more of them.

We're in that range where it's X and a pile of 2nds for a rotation guy, and it depends on who's available. With X most likely being Rubio. The biggest restriction is that we need to send out as much or more money as we take back to stay out of the tax.

But honestly if we could get relief for Rubio's salary (either through retirement or dumping him) I think we could bring in 1-3 free agents out of John Wall, Blake Griffin, JaMychal Green, Terence Davis, TJ Warren, and Anthony Lamb.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1497 » by ijspeelman » Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:50 pm

toooskies wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:From here, how do we get more depth?

I say everyone, but Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley are off the table right now (I think Allen is too, but I can see an argument for him not being included).

I think the realistic guys to be traded are Bates, Okoro, Wade, and any of the filler (Jerome, Jones, Merrill). I think packaging Bates and Okoro/Wade (and filler if needed) may actually result in (a) solid role player(s). The issue is Okoro and Wade are currently rotational pieces in our system and we'd be swapping one-for-one. I think if a trade occurs you almost need to sweeten the deal with Bates to either get an upgrade on Okoro/Wade or get more players of Okoro/Wade's quality, but just have more of them.

We're in that range where it's X and a pile of 2nds for a rotation guy, and it depends on who's available. With X most likely being Rubio. The biggest restriction is that we need to send out as much or more money as we take back to stay out of the tax.

But honestly if we could get relief for Rubio's salary (either through retirement or dumping him) I think we could bring in 1-3 free agents out of John Wall, Blake Griffin, JaMychal Green, Terence Davis, TJ Warren, and Anthony Lamb.


Not saying this is the answer, but I assume we would be looking at something like Rubio + Okoro/Wade + SRP (or not) for Royce O'Neal or Rubio + 2RP for Torrey Craig

I am actually most concerned with which position to focus on. We still lack bigger wings, we could use more playmakers, and we still probably want a better back-up big than Tristan (however, I've become content with Tristan being that guy)

PS I like the free agent shout outs. TJ Warren and Blake Griffin are probably the most interesting to me, but I have no clue if they still have their legs under them to not be a complete waste on defense
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1498 » by jbk1234 » Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:44 pm

I have zero interest in trading Wade who is the only guy on the roster, besides Mobley, with the size and ability to guard both forward positions. We're already too thin in the frontcourt and undersized generally.

I'd offer Okoro and 2nds (or Bates) for Thybulle, or Rubio, Okoro, and value for Stewart on the Pistons.

I'd pass on O'Neale. He's only 6'4" and we have a bunch of guys whose best position is SG trying to play SF already.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1499 » by toooskies » Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:00 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I have zero interest in trading Wade who is the only guy on the roster, besides Mobley, with the size and ability to guard both forward positions. We're already too thin in the frontcourt and undersized generally.

I'd offer Okoro and 2nds (or Bates) for Thybulle, or Rubio, Okoro, and value for Stewart on the Pistons.

I'd pass on O'Neale. He's only 6'4" and we have a bunch of guys whose best position is SG trying to play SF already.

Thybulle makes $10.5m, so it'd have to be Okoro + Rubio + 2nds to stay out of the tax.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#1500 » by JonFromVA » Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:21 pm

I'm not trading any young player in the development chain for a role player/stop gap.

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