Cavs Schmavved! Victory Cigar vs CLE 12/12

[sam_I_am]

I don’t care who people consider the second option, because we have multiple guys who can be that on any night.

Tatum’s value doesn’t always show up in the stat sheet, but this clip really sums it up. Defenses are terrified of him, and because of that, everyone else has it pretty easy. You just need to be aggressive, either with your own shot, or getting someone else a look. Tatum sets more off ball screens than like any wing in the league, last night included.

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We've already seen what having a second option in the playoffs netted us. A capped ceiling. I don't wanna see the same my-turn-your-turn offense that failed against the tougher defenses in Heat/Dubs. I prefer what we're trying to achieve this season -- Tatum as the primary, offensive focal point (even if he's no Jokic, Doncic, or Haliburton) then multiple options around him who can all score at three levels, take advantage of mismatches/scrambling defense, and also become threats to make plays for others. Just keep building the habit of making the right reads over and over in the regular season and our playoff offense will be better for it. We'll become less predictable and more efficient. The tough individual shotmaking can always be a fallback when sets grind to a halt. It certainly helps that Tatum has made this jump as an isolation scorer (or maybe chart below includes passing).

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What capped us was having 3 guys on the floor - RW, Horford, Smart - who defenses didn’t worry about at all. Now we have 5 guys that can realistically drop 30 on a given night.

[ConstableGeneva]

I don’t care who people consider the second option, because we have multiple guys who can be that on any night.

Tatum’s value doesn’t always show up in the stat sheet, but this clip really sums it up. Defenses are terrified of him, and because of that, everyone else has it pretty easy. You just need to be aggressive, either with your own shot, or getting someone else a look. Tatum sets more off ball screens than like any wing in the league, last night included.

Read on Twitter

We've already seen what having a second option in the playoffs netted us. A capped ceiling. I don't wanna see the same my-turn-your-turn offense that failed against the tougher defenses in Heat/Dubs. I prefer what we're trying to achieve this season -- Tatum as the primary, offensive focal point (even if he's no Jokic, Doncic, or Haliburton) then multiple options around him who can all score at three levels, take advantage of mismatches/scrambling defense, and also become threats to make plays for others. Just keep building the habit of making the right reads over and over in the regular season and our playoff offense will be better for it. We'll become less predictable and more efficient. The tough individual shotmaking can always be a fallback when sets grind to a halt. It certainly helps that Tatum has made this jump as an isolation scorer (or maybe chart below includes passing).

Read on Twitter

What capped us was having 3 guys on the floor - RW, Horford, Smart - who defenses didn’t worry about at all. Now we have 5 guys that can realistically drop 30 on a given night.

And maximizing all the weapons at our disposal is the best way to get over the hump. Not just having our offense depend on two guys.

[KillahGhostface]

I’d take balanced scoring like we’ve been seeing, all day. Makes them infinitely harder to defend in the playoffs.

Tatum always levels up as an iso player in the playoffs, imagine what he will do while having the spacing this team has? Lights out for defenses, which makes them throw everything at him, and now we have the roster where we can really take advantage of that.

Top defenses all take the ball out of Tatum’s hands, it’s well known. Which puts a ton of Jaylen, who isn’t really equipped to break down an elite defense, which is also well known. But now? We have so many combinations that we can play two man games with, and yeah, we will continue seeing Tatum stand around at times, because his defender won’t ever leave him, and then it’s playing 4 on 4, without the other teams best defense involved in the play.

This current roster makes Jaylen’s life so much easier, we just need his shot to bounce back to at least average.

[ConstableGeneva]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

[KillahGhostface]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

You mention the screener thing, and people just don’t understand how important two man games are. Plus like you said, he’s just a much more versatile scorer than Jaylen.

Having two FT merchants in the playoffs is a cheat code.

[sam_I_am]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

That’s excellent. Brook Lopez and Duncan Robinson are in the top 7 too. I wouldn’t want them trying to take 18-20 shots per game either - for different reasons. No diss on KP but he is in the right role with the right usage and he himself has said so. If we forced him to take 20 shots he probably drops a lot in efficiency, but even worse he probably gets banged up and less available.

KP brings a dimension to the offense that was sorely missing. I expect him to be a little less effective in playoffs than he has been so far because of his physical limitations, but that said, he makes every one on the roster so much better it’s imperative that he be managed correctly with May/June in mind.

[ConstableGeneva]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

That’s excellent. Brook Lopez and Duncan Robinson are in the top 7 too. I wouldn’t want them trying to take 18-20 shots per game either. No diss on KP but he is in the right role with the right usage and he himself has said so.

And you're still stuck on who gets to take 20 shots a game. That's sad.

[KillahGhostface]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

That’s excellent. Brook Lopez and Duncan Robinson are in the top 7 too. I wouldn’t want them trying to take 18-20 shots per game either - for different reasons. No diss on KP but he is in the right role with the right usage and he himself has said so. If we forced him to take 20 shots he probably drops a lot in efficiency, but even worse he probably gets banged up and less available.

You’re getting caught up in labels. If you want to say Jaylen is our second option, that’s fine. But their second most dangerous weapon offensively is KP, which is why defenses overreact to any action involving him.

He’s just a more versatile and efficient scorer than Jaylen, which again, is why he’s second on the team in front court touches per game.

[BK_2020]

Something like a third of Jaylen's points have come in transition.

[sam_I_am]

I am not caught up on 20 shots other than that JB’s talent makes it pretty easy to get them whereas KP would have to work really hard to get them. I actually prefer JB pass up the shots that come easily like he did when he gave up a bunny free throw shot to whip it to DW in the corner for his 3rd straight 3.

[BK_2020]

I am not caught up on 20 shots other than that JB’s talent makes it pretty easy to get them whereas KP would have to work really hard to get them. I actually prefer JB pass up the shots that come easily like he did when he gave up a bunny free throw shot to whip it to DW in the corner for his 3rd straight 3.

That free throw line jumper Jaylen passed on didn't happen because of Jaylen's halfcourt talent. It was created by Tatum stuffing Garland's drive then Jrue poking the ball loose.

[KillahGhostface]

Wait did I just read KP has physical limitations? What exactly is that? He’s huge, he’s built solid as hell, and his game requires very little banging around, he just shoots over guys.

The fact that he is second on the team in front court touches per game tells you what the team thinks.

[sam_I_am]

KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

That’s excellent. Brook Lopez and Duncan Robinson are in the top 7 too. I wouldn’t want them trying to take 18-20 shots per game either - for different reasons. No diss on KP but he is in the right role with the right usage and he himself has said so. If we forced him to take 20 shots he probably drops a lot in efficiency, but even worse he probably gets banged up and less available.

You’re getting caught up in labels. If you want to say Jaylen is our second option, that’s fine. But their second most dangerous weapon offensively is KP, which is why defenses overreact to any action involving him.

He’s just a more versatile and efficient scorer than Jaylen, which again, is why he’s second on the team in front court touches per game.

KP is a great addition, we agree, and his versatility and efficiency is incredible playing next to Jason and Jaylen. He is perfect with his current usage. If he can keep this up until June we will be very happy as fans.

[Stan34]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

You know why Celtics don't use JB as a screener with Tatum in P&R? Cause JB defender is the second, sometimes first, best defender on the opposite team.
You want to force the change with a lesser defender to let JT attack them.

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[BK_2020]

Read on Twitter

KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

You know why Celtics don't use JB as a screener with Tatum in P&R? Cause JB defender is the second, sometimes first, best defender on the opposite team.
You want to force the change with a lesser defender to let JT attack them.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

Yeah like Max Strus.

[Stan34]

KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

You know why Celtics don't use JB as a screener with Tatum in P&R? Cause JB defender is the second, sometimes first, best defender on the opposite team.
You want to force the change with a lesser defender to let JT attack them.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

Yeah like Max Strus.

Udoka always said that. Tell me who was guarding JT last night

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[KillahGhostface]

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KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

You know why Celtics don't use JB as a screener with Tatum in P&R? Cause JB defender is the second, sometimes first, best defender on the opposite team.
You want to force the change with a lesser defender to let JT attack them.

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That’s zoya’s point lol. If you run action with Tatum and Jaylen that forces a switch, Tatum is still going to get trapped, and Jaylen will be going against the other teams best defender.

It’s why having different positions for two man games is so important, and obviously someone who can actually punish them.

[165bows]

Something like a third of Jaylen's points have come in transition.

Which is kind of crazy because the Celtics are the opposite of a prolific transition team. Been a tiny bit faster this year but been bottom barrel pace-wise for awhile.

[sam_I_am]

KP's threat as a pick-and-pop shooter, a roll threat, and a postup mismatch opens up more for our offense than whatever JB offered on that end as JT's #2 in the past. Not a diss on JB. Just stating a fact. We couldn't even use him as a screener for JT in the past (did it more with Smart and now with White). Offense is not all about who can score more individually.

You know why Celtics don't use JB as a screener with Tatum in P&R? Cause JB defender is the second, sometimes first, best defender on the opposite team.
You want to force the change with a lesser defender to let JT attack them.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

That’s zoya’s point lol. If you run action with Tatum and Jaylen that forces a switch, Tatum is still going to get trapped, and Jaylen will be going against the other teams best defender.

It’s why having different positions for two man games is so important, and obviously someone who can actually punish them.

That’s probably why the 3 man combo of JB, KP, White is so much better than JB, JT and White.

[KillahGhostface]

You know why Celtics don't use JB as a screener with Tatum in P&R? Cause JB defender is the second, sometimes first, best defender on the opposite team.
You want to force the change with a lesser defender to let JT attack them.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

That’s zoya’s point lol. If you run action with Tatum and Jaylen that forces a switch, Tatum is still going to get trapped, and Jaylen will be going against the other teams best defender.

It’s why having different positions for two man games is so important, and obviously someone who can actually punish them.

That’s probably why the 3 man combo of JB, KP, White is so much better than JB, JT and White.

Really with any combination of the starters, the numbers are insane. But White, KP, and Jaylen have a +22.5 net when in together. Drops to +10 without Tatum, but that’s still an excellent number.

White/Tatum without Jaylen: +23.3
White/Jaylen without Tatum: +7.9, still a very good number.

We’ve basically done almost none of Tatum/KP without Jaylen, which makes sense as they’re trying to make KP the safety net for Jaylen.

Jaylen/KP without Tatum is -2.5, which surprised me tbh. I think that will get better as the year goes on.

The Tatum/Holiday numbers are crazy. With those two on, and the other three starters off, the team has a +17.1 net.

Jaylen in, no Tatum: +3.1, a pretty good number imo.
Tatum in, no Jaylen: +14.1, which is more about Tatum being ridiculous than anything about Jaylen.

As long as one of White or Tatum is always in the game, good things usually happen.