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2023 New York Yankees Thread

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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#441 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:28 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
SelbyCobra wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I don't think it's nefarious at all, and Ohtani offered this deal to his other suitors, but it is indeed gaming the system because it blatantly allows the Dodgers to circumvent the competitive tax.

It's an exploit of the current system because there's no cap on how much salary can be deferred. Not sure if this is the precedent that MLB wants to set since there's probably like what, a handful teams that can afford to do this? This makes me scared to death of the Mets next offseason. :lol:

It's a loophole that needs to be closed during the next CBA.


He signed a $460M present day value deal - not $700M - and counts $46M each year against the LT - how is that gaming the system?

I'm not being obtuse here, I get what you are saying, but the problem most people are running into with this is that they heard "$700 million" and think that's a real number regarding his contract value. That number was basically brand advertising on social and traditional media for Shohei and his agent Joel Wolfe - there's a reason it was so perfect and even at exactly $700; it creates shock, awe, and adds to a growing, Bunyonesque legend. But it was never real money in the context that we understand traditional sports contracts.

And there are more teams than not that can afford to do this - it isn't a rich teams only thing. This structure benefits the team, not the player; it doesn't cost more, it costs less and allows greater financial flexibility in terms of cashflow, ability to operate in the present, AND prepare for the future.


Can you clarify all of this different numbers math? Is he getting 700mil or is that a lie and he's only getting 460mil? I haven't paid close enough attention so, I'm confused. Is it a back loaded deal or something?



Yeah can you clarify? I thought he deferred 680m in salary. Where does the 460m come from?
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#442 » by KnicksGadfly » Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:33 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
SelbyCobra wrote:
He signed a $460M present day value deal - not $700M - and counts $46M each year against the LT - how is that gaming the system?

I'm not being obtuse here, I get what you are saying, but the problem most people are running into with this is that they heard "$700 million" and think that's a real number regarding his contract value. That number was basically brand advertising on social and traditional media for Shohei and his agent Joel Wolfe - there's a reason it was so perfect and even at exactly $700; it creates shock, awe, and adds to a growing, Bunyonesque legend. But it was never real money in the context that we understand traditional sports contracts.

And there are more teams than not that can afford to do this - it isn't a rich teams only thing. This structure benefits the team, not the player; it doesn't cost more, it costs less and allows greater financial flexibility in terms of cashflow, ability to operate in the present, AND prepare for the future.


Can you clarify all of this different numbers math? Is he getting 700mil or is that a lie and he's only getting 460mil? I haven't paid close enough attention so, I'm confused. Is it a back loaded deal or something?



Yeah can you clarify? I thought he deferred 680m in salary. Where does the 460m come from?


They're probably using Present Day Value to calculate how much 680 million dollars in the future is actually worth today. I think Washington was the team that first started the trend though.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#443 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:50 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Can you clarify all of this different numbers math? Is he getting 700mil or is that a lie and he's only getting 460mil? I haven't paid close enough attention so, I'm confused. Is it a back loaded deal or something?



Yeah can you clarify? I thought he deferred 680m in salary. Where does the 460m come from?


They're probably using Present Day Value to calculate how much 680 million dollars in the future is actually worth today. I think Washington was the team that first started the trend though.


Ah. Okay, but unless I'm missing something, even if w. inflation the payout is 460m, that's still a massive amount of money to defer. It doesn't really dismiss the point that this circumvents the CBT.

I'm not mad or anything, if the Yankees did it I'd be behaving like an animal right now. I just think this loophole needs to be closed in the future, or a hard cap needs to be placed on how much salary can be deferred.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#444 » by SelbyCobra » Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:07 pm

Basically, he's getting $700M...eventually.

However, in the context of WHEN he's getting that $700M, the value of the contract is essentially $460M because $68M a year today is not worth $68M a year 14 years from now (or whenever) due to inflation. MLB and the players union have calculations on record specifically to deal with deferred money in contracts, and if money is deferred to the future where it is "less valuable", then they need to be able to measure how much the contract is actually worth in a standard, conventional sense for purposes of the luxury tax and contract valuation comparisons.

They've already announced/leaked that the calculation run on this Ohtani deferred contract pegs it as a 10/$460M contract. That is, if the contract had no deferred money, it would be the same as if he had agreed to a 10/$460M contract. That's why he's counting for $46M against the luxury tax.

Basically Ohtani took a discounted, team-friendly deal to play for the Dodgers, and allow them to build around him. This isn't a team thing, the only way this works is if a player is willing to take less. It's no different than somebody taking a hometown discount on a contract.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#445 » by Jalen Bluntson » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:39 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Can you clarify all of this different numbers math? Is he getting 700mil or is that a lie and he's only getting 460mil? I haven't paid close enough attention so, I'm confused. Is it a back loaded deal or something?



Yeah can you clarify? I thought he deferred 680m in salary. Where does the 460m come from?


They're probably using Present Day Value to calculate how much 680 million dollars in the future is actually worth today. I think Washington was the team that first started the trend though.


Huh?
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#446 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:40 am

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:

Yeah can you clarify? I thought he deferred 680m in salary. Where does the 460m come from?


They're probably using Present Day Value to calculate how much 680 million dollars in the future is actually worth today. I think Washington was the team that first started the trend though.


Huh?

:lol:
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#447 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:31 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
They're probably using Present Day Value to calculate how much 680 million dollars in the future is actually worth today. I think Washington was the team that first started the trend though.


Huh?

:lol:


Oops I got the term wrong. Net Present Value.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#448 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:35 pm

Ohtani trying to recruit Yamamoto ****
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#449 » by moocow007 » Thu Dec 14, 2023 2:55 pm

I know the general feeling is that "Japanese players would prefer to play on a team with other Japanese players" but I'm really not sure whether that is true or some sort of assumption (possibly tinged with a bit of racial stereotyping lol).

I've been getting some feedback from die hard Japanese baseball fans (in Japan) regarding who they think is going where...

So apparently there is this "Japanese thing" where Japanese stars would rather not play on the same team MLB team as other Japanese stars. Not sure if it's out of respect, some sort of proving yourself, what not...still trying to get a grasp of the mentality behind it. But apparently it is a very real thing.

If you take a look at the teams in competition for Yamamoto (LAD, NYM, SF, BOS, NYY, TOR), the Yankees are one of two teams (on the rumored Yamamoto interest train) that currently do not have another Japanese star on it's roster (SF is the other).

Does that mean that Yamamoto won't buck that trend? Nope. But if we want to factor in this nuance it does help the Yankees.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#450 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:51 pm

We're not getting this guy. I'm kinda sad.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#451 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:52 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:Ohtani trying to recruit Yamamoto ****


I know. Now i hate his ass :lol:
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#452 » by KnicksGadfly » Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:46 pm

moocow007 wrote:I know the general feeling is that "Japanese players would prefer to play on a team with other Japanese players" but I'm really not sure whether that is true or some sort of assumption (possibly tinged with a bit of racial stereotyping lol).

I've been getting some feedback from die hard Japanese baseball fans (in Japan) regarding who they think is going where...

So apparently there is this "Japanese thing" where Japanese stars would rather not play on the same team MLB team as other Japanese stars. Not sure if it's out of respect, some sort of proving yourself, what not...still trying to get a grasp of the mentality behind it. But apparently it is a very real thing.

If you take a look at the teams in competition for Yamamoto (LAD, NYM, SF, BOS, NYY, TOR), the Yankees are one of two teams (on the rumored Yamamoto interest train) that currently do not have another Japanese star on it's roster (SF is the other).

Does that mean that Yamamoto won't buck that trend? Nope. But if we want to factor in this nuance it does help the Yankees.


I think there's a hierarchical thing in Japanese culture that makes things difficult. However, if I'm not mistaking it, it kind of exists in Chinese and Korean culture too...it's really **** to work in those countries.

Weird enough, Tanaka actually apologized recently for failing to stop an older teammate from bullying his younger peers: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/ex-yankees-pitcher-masahiro-tanaka-apologizes-for-failing-to-stop-bullying-by-rakuten-golden-eagles-teammate/
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#453 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:45 am

moocow007 wrote:I know the general feeling is that "Japanese players would prefer to play on a team with other Japanese players" but I'm really not sure whether that is true or some sort of assumption (possibly tinged with a bit of racial stereotyping lol).

I've been getting some feedback from die hard Japanese baseball fans (in Japan) regarding who they think is going where...

So apparently there is this "Japanese thing" where Japanese stars would rather not play on the same team MLB team as other Japanese stars. Not sure if it's out of respect, some sort of proving yourself, what not...still trying to get a grasp of the mentality behind it. But apparently it is a very real thing.

If you take a look at the teams in competition for Yamamoto (LAD, NYM, SF, BOS, NYY, TOR), the Yankees are one of two teams (on the rumored Yamamoto interest train) that currently do not have another Japanese star on it's roster (SF is the other).

Does that mean that Yamamoto won't buck that trend? Nope. But if we want to factor in this nuance it does help the Yankees.


Kodai Senga came to the Mets and we had no other Japanese players on our roster or coaching staff. I think it's a West Coast vs. East Coast racism. They simply want to be closer to home. I can understand that. NYC is really on the other side of the world to them. Also, aren't they larger Asian communities in the WC cities compared to NYC?

This is why I'm predicting that Mr. Moto goes to either the Dodgers or Giants. My prediction is that he's going to the Giants.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#454 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:28 am

Just ran into a friend I haven't seen since Jr highschool. Turns out he works for the Yankees!! Not divulging anything more about him but, he says it's as good as done that Yashimoto is gonna be in pinstripes soon. Says thY BOTH his idols playing here is the driving force that it gets done.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#455 » by moocow007 » Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:12 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
moocow007 wrote:I know the general feeling is that "Japanese players would prefer to play on a team with other Japanese players" but I'm really not sure whether that is true or some sort of assumption (possibly tinged with a bit of racial stereotyping lol).

I've been getting some feedback from die hard Japanese baseball fans (in Japan) regarding who they think is going where...

So apparently there is this "Japanese thing" where Japanese stars would rather not play on the same team MLB team as other Japanese stars. Not sure if it's out of respect, some sort of proving yourself, what not...still trying to get a grasp of the mentality behind it. But apparently it is a very real thing.

If you take a look at the teams in competition for Yamamoto (LAD, NYM, SF, BOS, NYY, TOR), the Yankees are one of two teams (on the rumored Yamamoto interest train) that currently do not have another Japanese star on it's roster (SF is the other).

Does that mean that Yamamoto won't buck that trend? Nope. But if we want to factor in this nuance it does help the Yankees.


Kodai Senga came to the Mets and we had no other Japanese players on our roster or coaching staff. I think it's a West Coast vs. East Coast racism. They simply want to be closer to home. I can understand that. NYC is really on the other side of the world to them. Also, aren't they larger Asian communities in the WC cities compared to NYC?

This is why I'm predicting that Mr. Moto goes to either the Dodgers or Giants. My prediction is that he's going to the Giants.


I think you missed my point if you're using Senga as an example. I'm saying that if the Mets actually had another Japanese player that Senga may not have went to the Mets. What I'm saying isn't coming from me, it's coming from quite a lot of long time Japanese baseball fans who think they know the workings of what Japanese players in general think.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#456 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:12 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:Just ran into a friend I haven't seen since Jr highschool. Turns out he works for the Yankees!! Not divulging anything more about him but, he says it's as good as done that Yashimoto is gonna be in pinstripes soon. Says thY BOTH his idols playing here is the driving force that it gets done.


Please please please :nod:
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#457 » by moocow007 » Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:15 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:Just ran into a friend I haven't seen since Jr highschool. Turns out he works for the Yankees!! Not divulging anything more about him but, he says it's as good as done that Yashimoto is gonna be in pinstripes soon. Says thY BOTH his idols playing here is the driving force that it gets done.


Yeah let's hope he's right. The Yankees have to land him. After trading for Soto they need to go for it. And only way to do that is for Hal to go George mode. But yep, a lot of talk that his two idols growing up was Tanaka and Kuroda.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#458 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:05 pm

moocow007 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
moocow007 wrote:I know the general feeling is that "Japanese players would prefer to play on a team with other Japanese players" but I'm really not sure whether that is true or some sort of assumption (possibly tinged with a bit of racial stereotyping lol).

I've been getting some feedback from die hard Japanese baseball fans (in Japan) regarding who they think is going where...

So apparently there is this "Japanese thing" where Japanese stars would rather not play on the same team MLB team as other Japanese stars. Not sure if it's out of respect, some sort of proving yourself, what not...still trying to get a grasp of the mentality behind it. But apparently it is a very real thing.

If you take a look at the teams in competition for Yamamoto (LAD, NYM, SF, BOS, NYY, TOR), the Yankees are one of two teams (on the rumored Yamamoto interest train) that currently do not have another Japanese star on it's roster (SF is the other).

Does that mean that Yamamoto won't buck that trend? Nope. But if we want to factor in this nuance it does help the Yankees.


Kodai Senga came to the Mets and we had no other Japanese players on our roster or coaching staff. I think it's a West Coast vs. East Coast racism. They simply want to be closer to home. I can understand that. NYC is really on the other side of the world to them. Also, aren't they larger Asian communities in the WC cities compared to NYC?

This is why I'm predicting that Mr. Moto goes to either the Dodgers or Giants. My prediction is that he's going to the Giants.


I think you missed my point if you're using Senga as an example. I'm saying that if the Mets actually had another Japanese player that Senga may not have went to the Mets. What I'm saying isn't coming from me, it's coming from quite a lot of long time Japanese baseball fans who think they know the workings of what Japanese players in general think.


Oh. So I thought the opposite of what you wrote. Hmmm. Well, it was late. :lol:
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#459 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:42 am

The Dodgers (Magic Johnson) had Kobe record a personal message 6 years ago as apart of their pitch to Ohtani.

Read on Twitter


Goddamn. I might have cried over that. That's insane.

Man I feel like the Dodgers are kicking our asses right now.
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Re: 2023 New York Yankees Thread 

Post#460 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:24 am

MrDollarBills wrote:The Dodgers (Magic Johnson) had Kobe record a personal message 6 years ago as apart of their pitch to Ohtani.

Read on Twitter


Goddamn. I might have cried over that. That's insane.

Man I feel like the Dodgers are kicking our asses right now.


At least the Mets owner and POBO flew all the way over to Japan to meet with Mr. Moto and his family. We showed proper respect.
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