NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[losmi]

Jokic and the Nuggets will be fine, and Jokic will win the MVP again. They've just had a tough schedule so far - too many games (26; most teams had 23), including 15 away games (most of any teams) and 6 back-to-backs (again the most of any teams). And despite that and Murray missing 13 games, they're still the 2nd seed.

[CobraCommander]

It’s Jokic on advanced stats - and being the best player on earth by a wide margin

It’s Embiid on counting stats

It’s Giannis as the second best player on earth

And then it’s everyone else - fox was the best of the rest tonight - better than Luka and he beat SGA head up.

The 4th spot is on rotation - tonight it’s Fox -

“Wide margin” yet isn’t going to win MVP nor a ring this year. Make it make sense.

Rn it’s Giannis then Embiid then Jokic then Doncic or Shai. Everyone else irrelevant

What's the arguement for Giannis over Embiid or Jokic at this point? Embiid+Jokic lead Giannis in basically every single advanced stat

Stat wise...nothing... this year Embiid and Jokics stats better than Giannis

Jokic and Giannis got the same hardware so in a year when they both in their primes and one has better stats...give the nod to that guy...so it’s Jokic over Giannis...


But Embiid or Giannis....one is actually better in high leverage moments -

so all things being equal..they both great..


.if it’s a game 7 for the chip?


NO ONE has Embiid over Giannis...even Embiids mom taking Giannis

[DrModesty]

My current snapshot has this top 5, in no particular order:

Embiid
Luka
Giannis
Jokic
Shai

And honestly I think you could literally put them in any order and it would be acceptable. No one has separated themselves, even though we have specifically Embiid and Jokic fans say they are miles in front.

Embiid's box score stats are off the charts (34/11.5/6.5/1.1/1.8) and the advanced stats are also very good. Strong defense as per usual, but probably not strong enough to make all nba defense because the front court positions are so competitive. His adversity is that Kelly Oubre missed games because of his weird injury and the whole Harden fiasco. That said, the Harden thing actually seems to have been beneficial as on the court it put both Maxey and Tobias in to their natural roles. Has the best performing 2nd option in Maxey and probably has the best coach of the 5 in Nick Nurse. He has made a point of stomping the bad teams, but it has had minimal effect on his per game stats as he comes out after 3 quarters because of it. Also stomping bad teams is not a bad thing. Embiid has also missed the most games of these 5 (only 3) and they were all against good opposition which is not a good look. He also has the highest usage rate out of all 5 players at 37%

Luka has the worst supporting cast of these 5 guys. He has also dealt with the most double teams by far. His second option in Kyrie has missed 7 games and most of his teammates have missed at least a couple of games. Kleber has missed most of the season, but is fairly low on the totem pole. Luka's defense has climbed to adequate which is a fantastic sign for Dallas and his box score stats pop big (32/9/8/1.3/.5). He has been by far the best 3 point shooter (38%) and is the only guy letting them fly on high volume. His advanced stats are good too, but not at the level of most of the others in this group. His team has the worst record of the 5, but all of them are close. Coaching leaves a bit to be desired, and he is relying on a rookie to be a major contributor at center. 35% usage rate.

Giannis has probably the best supporting cast. Certainly the highest pedigree one. Lopez would be the best 3rd player out of all 5 teams and Middleton should be too. But Middleton still isn't back to his high level, Dame is taking time to acclimate and their backcourt defense is very weak. He probably has the worst coach of the lot (Could be Kidd). Giannis just had the biggest game of anyone this season and the box score is great (32/11/5/1.5/1.3). Defense is great as per normal (solid chance at all defense teams), but his advanced stats also don't reach the heights of Jokic/Embiid/Shai. Bucks have the best record of the 5 teams, but as I said, they are all close. 34% usage rate.

Jokic is having a weird season. Shooting volume has increased while his efficiency has tanked (and was down even without those 2 outlier performances over the last week). His efficiency is amazingly the worst of all 5 players. His starting 5 is probably the second best behind Giannis, but the bench is a clear weakness of with a mix of youth and DeAndre Jordan. Jamal has missed half the season, and played well below his best in the games he did play. Jokic is probably getting the worst second option play of all 5 guys even though he does not have the worst second option. He has been ejected twice (Bulls and Pistons) and both times the opposing teams announcers thought it was a mistake. This has damaged his box score stats a bit, but not significantly. Speaking of, they are fantastic (27/13/9.5/1.2/0.8). He also still has the best advanced stats of all 5 guys, in some categories by a significant margin. Defense is similar to Luka in that it is adequate. 32% usage rate.

Shai is in his first year of being a truly legitimate candidate for MVP. When it comes to points/rebounds/assists he is a bit lower than the other 4 guys, but the defensive stats are outlier level (31/5.5/6.5/2.7/0.8). He is leading the league by far in steals, ranks very highly for blocks among guards and is also leading the league in deflections. His defense goes beyond those box score stats too and he is probably the most likely guy to make an all defensive team of the 5 so far. His shot making from deep mid range has been otherworldly (57%), but the 3 point shooting has been hit and miss which you don't like to see from a guard. Advanced stats are on a par with Embiid, behind Jokic and ahead of Giannis/Luka. He is the only guy who doesn't have a star running mate, but Chet has given about 4-5 star level performances. Definitely Chet has been better than Jamal Murray so far. Shai is uplifting an extremely young team, with 2 rookies getting heavy minutes (Chet, Wallace) as well as a bunch of 2nd/3rd year guys also in major roles. Shai's major adversity is the Giddey situation, both on and off the court. 32% usage rate.

For my money, everyone else is a step behind these 5 guys.

[Archx]

New MVP ladder.

Most noticeable, Luka keeps dropping spots even after carrying Mavs to 4-1 run with half of the roster injured and no Kyrie. Posting amazing stats along the way. Averaging 35.1 points, 10.7 assists and 8.3 rebounds over his last nine games.

Full top5 list. Embiid, Joker, Giannis, Shai, Luka

Read on Twitter

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic and the Nuggets will be fine, and Jokic will win the MVP again. They've just had a tough schedule so far - too many games (26; most teams had 23), including 15 away games (most of any teams) and 6 back-to-backs (again the most of any teams). And despite that and Murray missing 13 games, they're still the 2nd seed.

Yeah they’ve had a tough amount of games they’ve had to play

[iggymcfrack]

It’s Jokic on advanced stats - and being the best player on earth by a wide margin

It’s Embiid on counting stats

It’s Giannis as the second best player on earth

And then it’s everyone else - fox was the best of the rest tonight - better than Luka and he beat SGA head up.

The 4th spot is on rotation - tonight it’s Fox -

Fox? Fox? Did you watch the game? SGA was a basketball terminator. He runs past people like the Roadrunner going past Wile E. Coyote. So the Kings won a home game where they were hot from three. Big whoop. If the Hawks beat a team with an MVP candidate tomorrow and Trae scores 40 does that make him a top 5 MVP candidate? If you took Fox and turned him from a **** defender into the best defensive guard in the league, he still wouldn’t be on SGA’s level.

It’s Jokic and SGA for the MVP right now. Jokic is maybe the best offensive player in history. SGA is a top 5 offensive player and the best non-big defender since pre-injury Kawhi. No one else has a real case.

Watched the game - it was epic as hell- sga was definitely worthy of the 4 spot - I give it to fox because SGA and Fox both were amazing but Fox won in a head to head duel- and all things being equal…



The win has to be worth more than playing great and losing IF the other guy plays great and wins

Like I said… it’s Luka in 4 one night - hali the next - sga the next - fox - then Tatum - sprinkle in some Lebron etc

4 is fluid - 1 is static- 2&3 trade spots -

But jokic still best on earth - Giannis still second- Embiid the only one not named Giannis or Jokic that realistically is on the level worthy of mvp this year

Fox’s team won one home game. For the season, SGA’s team has more wins. They have a better point differential. Their NetRtg is waaaaay better with SGA on the floor than the Kings with Fox. SGA’s way more skilled and blows Fox away in every advanced stat.

If you’re just going on who’s won the most recent games, the Clippers have the longest winning streak in the NBA at 6 and Harden was the best player for them the last game. I guess he should be the MVP right now. That makes as much sense as putting Fox over SGA for his team winning one home game where he was outplayed individually.

[iggymcfrack]

Jokic and the Nuggets will be fine, and Jokic will win the MVP again. They've just had a tough schedule so far - too many games (26; most teams had 23), including 15 away games (most of any teams) and 6 back-to-backs (again the most of any teams). And despite that and Murray missing 13 games, they're still the 2nd seed.

It’s actually really impressive their record is as good as it is considering all the time Murray’s missed. I was kinda surprised last night looking at the standings and seeing them ahead of OKC.

[iggymcfrack]

New MVP ladder.

Most noticeable, Luka keeps dropping spots even after carrying Mavs to 4-1 run with half of the roster injured and no Kyrie. Posting amazing stats along the way. Averaging 35.1 points, 10.7 assists and 8.3 rebounds over his last nine games.

Full top5 list. Embiid, Joker, Giannis, Shai, Luka

Read on Twitter

Luka’s played well lately, but the people around him have played even better. Luka’s best game score in the last 4 games is a 30.6 last night in their 18 point home loss. SGA’s worst game score over that same span is 31.0 while putting up a +35 in a 14 point win over Utah. Giannis’s worst game score in his last 5 games is a 31.6 and in the last game he put up a ridiculous Game Score of 57 in the win over Indiana. Both Giannis and SGA are miles ahead of Luka as defenders too.

[Archx]

Luka’s played well lately, but the people around him have played even better. Luka’s best game score in the last 4 games is a 30.6 last night in their 18 point home loss. SGA’s worst game score over that same span is 31.0 while putting up a +35 in a 14 point win over Utah. Giannis’s worst game score in his last 5 games is a 31.6 and in the last game he put up a ridiculous Game Score of 57 in the win over Indiana. Both Giannis and SGA are miles ahead of Luka as defenders too.

Yeah ok but that still has to be taken with a grain of salt. Mavs 2nd and 3rd best players right now, due to injuries, are Exum and a 19yo rookie center. And we established that, statistically, no player in the league gets guarded harder than Doncic, actually it's quite the distance. Mavs are still being able to hang around with the best of them. Probably would have also won vs Wolves if they didn't shoot so horrible.

So game score is fun to look at, but like i said the other day with On/Off, all these things have to be put into context aswell. Different factors which are also hugely influenced by various lineup rotations.

Embiid wouldn't even dress up if his only option was Exum (joking before Eyeatoma kicks my ass)

[eyeatoma]

To anyone who thinks Giannis is better than Embiid this year.

LOL ... Take that for stats...

Read on Twitter

[GreatWhiteStiff]

That free throw rate ain't worth much if you're bricking off more than 1/3 from the line, Eye. Eye'll tell you that much for free.

[eyeatoma]

That free throw rate ain't worth much if you're bricking off more than 1/3 from the line, Eye. Eye'll tell you that much for free.

You're reaching trollish level posts bro...

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[iggymcfrack]

Luka’s played well lately, but the people around him have played even better. Luka’s best game score in the last 4 games is a 30.6 last night in their 18 point home loss. SGA’s worst game score over that same span is 31.0 while putting up a +35 in a 14 point win over Utah. Giannis’s worst game score in his last 5 games is a 31.6 and in the last game he put up a ridiculous Game Score of 57 in the win over Indiana. Both Giannis and SGA are miles ahead of Luka as defenders too.

Yeah ok but that still has to be taken with a grain of salt. Mavs 2nd and 3rd best players right now, due to injuries, are Exum and a 19yo rookie center. And we established that, statistically, no player in the league gets guarded harder than Doncic, actually it's quite the distance. Mavs are still being able to hang around with the best of them. Probably would have also won vs Wolves if they didn't shoot so horrible.

So game score is fun to look at, but like i said the other day with On/Off, all these things have to be put into context aswell. Different factors which are also hugely influenced by various lineup rotations.

Embiid wouldn't even dress up if his only option was Exum (joking before Eyeatoma kicks my ass)

I’m just saying don’t be surprised if Luka falls back in the MVP race over a 4 game stretch when the guys passing him are elite defenders who have better numbers in their worst game than Luka has in his best game over the time period.

Here’s some more context for you:
Mavericks ORtg with Luka on floor: 118.6
Mavericks ORtg with Luka on bench: 121.9

All that double teaming seems to be stifling Luka more than it’s opening things up for his teammates. There’s just no evidence that Luka is providing close to an MVP impact this year. He’s certainly playing well and helping the team win, but he hasn’t shown anywhere near the value of the top 6 guys so far.

[Wargreymon]

Giannis has definitely entered the conversation...Top 3 for sure

[Chokic]

Back 2 back mvp for Embiid incoming.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

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[JustBuzzin]

Back 2 back mvp for Embiid incoming.

If I had to vote today Embiid gets my vote. Dude is unreal he's literally making it look easy. League leader in scoring on 52.3 FG% and he's like 3rd in FG attempts.

Sixers keep winning he's most likely getting that 2nd straight MVP.


Fox was my MVP pick before the season he's still in the conversation with Luka also. Still early but Embiid is the favorite right now.

[eyeatoma]

Giannis has definitely entered the conversation...Top 3 for sure

He'll inevitably sit out games later on in the season as he has the last three years.

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[CharityStripe34]

Giannis has definitely entered the conversation...Top 3 for sure

He'll inevitably sit out games later on in the season as he has the last three years.

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Not quite sure this time. Griffin seems to play his key guys more (probably because the bench is barely mediocre). I'm sure he'll get his rest games here and there, but my guess is that he plays a few more than usual.

[Woodsanity]

Back 2 back mvp for Embiid incoming.

Back 2 back 2 back 2 back 2 back 2nd round exits too.