NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

That free throw rate ain't worth much if you're bricking off more than 1/3 from the line, Eye. Eye'll tell you that much for free.

Not sure what you mean. That's still a highly efficient 1.33 ppp

[ReginaldDwight]

Jokic and the Nuggets will be fine, and Jokic will win the MVP again. They've just had a tough schedule so far - too many games (26; most teams had 23), including 15 away games (most of any teams) and 6 back-to-backs (again the most of any teams). And despite that and Murray missing 13 games, they're still the 2nd seed.

It’s actually really impressive their record is as good as it is considering all the time Murray’s missed. I was kinda surprised last night looking at the standings and seeing them ahead of OKC.

West is pretty weak this year IMO. Its gonna come down to Joel, Jokic and Giannis. Those 3 are clearly the 3 best players in the league right now.

[ChartFiction]

Jokic and the Nuggets will be fine, and Jokic will win the MVP again. They've just had a tough schedule so far - too many games (26; most teams had 23), including 15 away games (most of any teams) and 6 back-to-backs (again the most of any teams). And despite that and Murray missing 13 games, they're still the 2nd seed.

It’s actually really impressive their record is as good as it is considering all the time Murray’s missed. I was kinda surprised last night looking at the standings and seeing them ahead of OKC.

West is pretty weak this year IMO. Its gonna come down to Joel, Jokic and Giannis. Those 3 are clearly the 3 best players in the league right now.

Why do you think they are in another tier than SGA?

SGA is leading in or right next to all of these guys in advanced stats.

He plays both sides which can be missed in some of these stats.

His team record is around these guys.

His pure impact stats is around these guys.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

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[LordCovington33]

For me:
1a Embiid
1b Jokic

It’s hard to separate Giannis, Doncic and SGA for different reasons.

An amazing top 5. If the season ended today and any of those players got the trophy, I’d still be happy for them.
But hey, it’s still early in the season and things can change.

[Jaqua92]

With the exception of his two ejections, and two bad games, Jokic was having the best season ever by virtually every advanced metric.
Embiid has surged but he won't win another MVP with Jokic doing what he's doing.

Embiid is great and is still not as good as Jokic this season despite the bad games and ejections. FMVP, defending champ, I don't see a scenario where Jokic isnt given his 3rd mvp.

He's the best player in the NBA, and Embiid's stat padding doesn't change that.

Jokic's award to lose.

[BruttoNostra]

December games so far for 76ers:
Washington (tanking hard) - 2 games
Detroit (just a bad team or tanking hard) - 2 games
Atlanta (losing record) - 1
Boston (leading the East) - 1

Which game Embiid ducked to save his stats? (Say, those 30/10 games in a row - 9 right now, 4 before the Celtics game)

[Mrakar]

Is Embiid sitting out tonight? Back2back, away game? My bet, he is not since its Charlotte.

[XtremeDunkz]

With the exception of his two ejections, and two bad games, Jokic was having the best season ever by virtually every advanced metric.
Embiid has surged but he won't win another MVP with Jokic doing what he's doing.

Embiid is great and is still not as good as Jokic this season despite the bad games and ejections. FMVP, defending champ, I don't see a scenario where Jokic isnt given his 3rd mvp.

He's the best player in the NBA, and Embiid's stat padding doesn't change that.

Jokic's award to lose.

Stat padding? Embiid has literally sat out EIGHT 4th quarters this season already.

It's one thing to have a counterargument. But to straight up make things up completely destroys your credibility.

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[CobraCommander]

Fox? Fox? Did you watch the game? SGA was a basketball terminator. He runs past people like the Roadrunner going past Wile E. Coyote. So the Kings won a home game where they were hot from three. Big whoop. If the Hawks beat a team with an MVP candidate tomorrow and Trae scores 40 does that make him a top 5 MVP candidate? If you took Fox and turned him from a **** defender into the best defensive guard in the league, he still wouldn’t be on SGA’s level.

It’s Jokic and SGA for the MVP right now. Jokic is maybe the best offensive player in history. SGA is a top 5 offensive player and the best non-big defender since pre-injury Kawhi. No one else has a real case.

Watched the game - it was epic as hell- sga was definitely worthy of the 4 spot - I give it to fox because SGA and Fox both were amazing but Fox won in a head to head duel- and all things being equal…



The win has to be worth more than playing great and losing IF the other guy plays great and wins

Like I said… it’s Luka in 4 one night - hali the next - sga the next - fox - then Tatum - sprinkle in some Lebron etc

4 is fluid - 1 is static- 2&3 trade spots -

But jokic still best on earth - Giannis still second- Embiid the only one not named Giannis or Jokic that realistically is on the level worthy of mvp this year

Fox’s team won one home game. For the season, SGA’s team has more wins. They have a better point differential. Their NetRtg is waaaaay better with SGA on the floor than the Kings with Fox. SGA’s way more skilled and blows Fox away in every advanced stat.

If you’re just going on who’s won the most recent games, the Clippers have the longest winning streak in the NBA at 6 and Harden was the best player for them the last game. I guess he should be the MVP right now. That makes as much sense as putting Fox over SGA for his team winning one home game where he was outplayed individually.

You missing the point - after jokic Embiid and Giannis- the 4th - 11th spot is completely fluid. It could be Luka or Tatum or fox or sga- that 4 spot is up for grabs and everyone has a good claim for it.

If Fox beats SGA and they both drop 40- it’s going to
Fox -

but it ain’t that serious -

no one beyond Giannis Embiid and Jokic have a chance at the mvp this year.

It’s another big man’s mvp to win. They are litterally and figuratively heads and shoulders above the field

[iggymcfrack]

Watched the game - it was epic as hell- sga was definitely worthy of the 4 spot - I give it to fox because SGA and Fox both were amazing but Fox won in a head to head duel- and all things being equal…



The win has to be worth more than playing great and losing IF the other guy plays great and wins

Like I said… it’s Luka in 4 one night - hali the next - sga the next - fox - then Tatum - sprinkle in some Lebron etc

4 is fluid - 1 is static- 2&3 trade spots -

But jokic still best on earth - Giannis still second- Embiid the only one not named Giannis or Jokic that realistically is on the level worthy of mvp this year

Fox’s team won one home game. For the season, SGA’s team has more wins. They have a better point differential. Their NetRtg is waaaaay better with SGA on the floor than the Kings with Fox. SGA’s way more skilled and blows Fox away in every advanced stat.

If you’re just going on who’s won the most recent games, the Clippers have the longest winning streak in the NBA at 6 and Harden was the best player for them the last game. I guess he should be the MVP right now. That makes as much sense as putting Fox over SGA for his team winning one home game where he was outplayed individually.

You missing the point - after jokic Embiid and Giannis- the 4th - 11th spot is completely fluid. It could be Luka or Tatum or fox or sga- that 4 spot is up for grabs and everyone has a good claim for it.

If Fox beats SGA and they both drop 40- it’s going to
Fox -

but it ain’t that serious -

no one beyond Giannis Embiid and Jokic have a chance at the mvp this year.

It’s another big man’s mvp to win. They are litterally and figuratively heads and shoulders above the field

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

[mediocrityrules]

With the exception of his two ejections, and two bad games, Jokic was having the best season ever by virtually every advanced metric.
Embiid has surged but he won't win another MVP with Jokic doing what he's doing.

Embiid is great and is still not as good as Jokic this season despite the bad games and ejections. FMVP, defending champ, I don't see a scenario where Jokic isnt given his 3rd mvp.

He's the best player in the NBA, and Embiid's stat padding doesn't change that.

Jokic's award to lose.

Stat padding? Embiid has literally sat out EIGHT 4th quarters this season already.

It's one thing to have a counterargument. But to straight up make things up completely destroys your credibility.

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Yeah if there's one thing Embiid isn't doing at the moment it's stat padding. And i have nothing against stat-padding. I would actually prefer to see more teams play through to the final whistle. But he's suffering a similar thing to what Giannis did back around 2019-2020 when the Bucks were blowing teams away and he'd sit the last quarters. That year Giannis averaged just 30 mpg across the entire RS (but still averaged 29.5/13.6/5.6 in that 30 mins however).

Embiid's counting stats will suffer (which is a relative term when you compare what he is doing to everyone else) as long as the Sixers keep blowing away the bad teams.

[CobraCommander]

Fox’s team won one home game. For the season, SGA’s team has more wins. They have a better point differential. Their NetRtg is waaaaay better with SGA on the floor than the Kings with Fox. SGA’s way more skilled and blows Fox away in every advanced stat.

If you’re just going on who’s won the most recent games, the Clippers have the longest winning streak in the NBA at 6 and Harden was the best player for them the last game. I guess he should be the MVP right now. That makes as much sense as putting Fox over SGA for his team winning one home game where he was outplayed individually.

You missing the point - after jokic Embiid and Giannis- the 4th - 11th spot is completely fluid. It could be Luka or Tatum or fox or sga- that 4 spot is up for grabs and everyone has a good claim for it.

If Fox beats SGA and they both drop 40- it’s going to
Fox -

but it ain’t that serious -

no one beyond Giannis Embiid and Jokic have a chance at the mvp this year.

It’s another big man’s mvp to win. They are litterally and figuratively heads and shoulders above the field

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

You think SGA is as good as prime Giannis? Stats aside- just straight up Giannis or SGA - ?

[iggymcfrack]

You missing the point - after jokic Embiid and Giannis- the 4th - 11th spot is completely fluid. It could be Luka or Tatum or fox or sga- that 4 spot is up for grabs and everyone has a good claim for it.

If Fox beats SGA and they both drop 40- it’s going to
Fox -

but it ain’t that serious -

no one beyond Giannis Embiid and Jokic have a chance at the mvp this year.

It’s another big man’s mvp to win. They are litterally and figuratively heads and shoulders above the field

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

You think SGA is as good as prime Giannis? Stats aside- just straight up Giannis or SGA - ?

If you're asking me who I'd rather have for the rest of this season and postseason, current SGA or current Giannis, it's SGA. He's the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan. He's less of an injury risk than Giannis, better at lifting his teammates offensively, more of a leader, and possibly still improving while you never know when the odometer might turn over on Giannis.

[mediocrityrules]

Fox’s team won one home game. For the season, SGA’s team has more wins. They have a better point differential. Their NetRtg is waaaaay better with SGA on the floor than the Kings with Fox. SGA’s way more skilled and blows Fox away in every advanced stat.

If you’re just going on who’s won the most recent games, the Clippers have the longest winning streak in the NBA at 6 and Harden was the best player for them the last game. I guess he should be the MVP right now. That makes as much sense as putting Fox over SGA for his team winning one home game where he was outplayed individually.

You missing the point - after jokic Embiid and Giannis- the 4th - 11th spot is completely fluid. It could be Luka or Tatum or fox or sga- that 4 spot is up for grabs and everyone has a good claim for it.

If Fox beats SGA and they both drop 40- it’s going to
Fox -

but it ain’t that serious -

no one beyond Giannis Embiid and Jokic have a chance at the mvp this year.

It’s another big man’s mvp to win. They are litterally and figuratively heads and shoulders above the field

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

Giannis is scoring more than SGA (32 vs 31), and he's also doing it at a better efficiency. So if you want to compare Giannis and SGA, Giannis is scoring more, he's rebounding more, and he's doing it more efficiently, and his team has a better record.

If we stopped the season right now, I currently have it as: -
1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Luka
5. SGA

But this isn't how i see it at the end of the season.

[iggymcfrack]

You missing the point - after jokic Embiid and Giannis- the 4th - 11th spot is completely fluid. It could be Luka or Tatum or fox or sga- that 4 spot is up for grabs and everyone has a good claim for it.

If Fox beats SGA and they both drop 40- it’s going to
Fox -

but it ain’t that serious -

no one beyond Giannis Embiid and Jokic have a chance at the mvp this year.

It’s another big man’s mvp to win. They are litterally and figuratively heads and shoulders above the field

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

Giannis is scoring more than SGA (32 vs 31), and he's also doing it at a better efficiency. So if you want to compare Giannis and SGA, Giannis is scoring more, he's rebounding more, and he's doing it more efficiently, and his team has a better record.

If we stopped the season right now, I currently have it as: -
1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Luka
5. SGA

But this isn't how i see it at the end of the season.

1 point more PPG on 2% better shooting so nothing compared to 1.6 less assists and 1.9 more turnovers. SGA’s still a more efficient scorer overall.

[mediocrityrules]

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

You think SGA is as good as prime Giannis? Stats aside- just straight up Giannis or SGA - ?

If you're asking me who I'd rather have for the rest of this season and postseason, current SGA or current Giannis, it's SGA. He's the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan. He's less of an injury risk than Giannis, better at lifting his teammates offensively, more of a leader, and possibly still improving while you never know when the odometer might turn over on Giannis.

Interesting take. Better than Kobe? Not a chance.

As for the other points, Giannis is a monster offensively and defensively - I'd argue he's a better two-way player than SGA. In terms of injury risk, SGA averages 62.2 games over the last 5 seasons, Giannis has averaged 65.2 over the last 5 seasons - and 72 over his career (numbers are not including this season). In terms of offense the Bucks are one of the top offenses in the league so no issue there in terms of having teammates involved in the offense, and he's led a team to a championship, taking the FMVP (you can't really lead a team any better than that), and he's playing just as good right now as he ever was. Leadership at this level is about driving a team to win games, and no one is more driven than Giannis, and that rubs off on everyone around him.

He's in his prime right now so not sure about that odometer remark. Makes no sense.

My opinion (and that's all it is); no way i would take SGA over Giannis.

[One Last Shot]

Why does SGA just get thrown out in the trash with all the miscellaneous guys when he's been better than Giannis on both ends all season? The Thunder are 6 points better with SGA on the floor than the Bucks are with Giannis and 5 points worse without him than the Bucks without Giannis. SGA averages the same points and assists as Giannis on half as many turnovers. He has 1.5x as many steals as any other player in the league. He leads all guards in blocks. He's second in the league for shots contested by a guard and second in the league for lowest opponents' field goal percentage. The only thing Giannis has done better this season is rebound.

You think SGA is as good as prime Giannis? Stats aside- just straight up Giannis or SGA - ?

If you're asking me who I'd rather have for the rest of this season and postseason, current SGA or current Giannis, it's SGA.He's the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan. He's less of an injury risk than Giannis, better at lifting his teammates offensively, more of a leader, and possibly still improving while you never know when the odometer might turn over on Giannis.

Are you aware that Kobe Bryant exist in NBA history? The 5x champs, 2x Finals MVP, League MVP, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defensive Team, 18x All-Star that Lakers legend Kobe? SGA is great but this is the first time in his 6-year career that he will lead his team to playoffs so maybe let's see if he can will his team to win some playoffs series, maybe get atleast half of Kobe's accomplishments like All-NBAs, NBA Titles, All-Defensive Teams before you declare that SGA is the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan.

[timO]

You think SGA is as good as prime Giannis? Stats aside- just straight up Giannis or SGA - ?

If you're asking me who I'd rather have for the rest of this season and postseason, current SGA or current Giannis, it's SGA.He's the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan. He's less of an injury risk than Giannis, better at lifting his teammates offensively, more of a leader, and possibly still improving while you never know when the odometer might turn over on Giannis.

Are you aware that Kobe Bryant exist in NBA history? The 5x champs, 2x Finals MVP, League MVP, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defensive Team, 18x All-Star that Lakers legend Kobe? SGA is great but this is the first time in his 6-year career that he will lead his team to playoffs so maybe let's see if he can will his team to win some playoffs series, maybe get atleast half of Kobe's accomplishments like All-NBAs, NBA Titles, All-Defensive Teams before you declare that SGA is the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan.

well kobe has 3 free rings with Shaq, and another finals

we see kobe suffering with a scrub team till gasol trade, SGA didnt have a decent team neither now

[Edrees]

[quote="timO"][quote="One Last Shot"][quote="iggymcfrack"]

If you're asking me who I'd rather have for the rest of this season and postseason, current SGA or current Giannis, it's SGA.[b]He's the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan.[/b] He's less of an injury risk than Giannis, better at lifting his teammates offensively, more of a leader, and possibly still improving while you never know when the odometer might turn over on Giannis.[/quote]

Are you aware that Kobe Bryant exist in NBA history? The 5x champs, 2x Finals MVP, League MVP, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defensive Team, 18x All-Star that Lakers legend Kobe? SGA is great but this is the first time in his 6-year career that he will lead his team to playoffs so maybe let's see if he can will his team to win some playoffs series, maybe get atleast half of Kobe's accomplishments like All-NBAs, NBA Titles, All-Defensive Teams before you declare that SGA is the best 2-way shooting guard since Jordan.[/quote]

well kobe has 3 free rings with Shaq, and another finals

we see kobe suffering with a scrub team till gasol trade, SGA didnt have a decent team neither now[/quote]

Sga is the worst player in the nba

Sorry I just had to say an equally stupid take going the opposite direction to balance this out. Essentially
Your take on kobe is about as far off as someone saying sga is the worst in the nba.