NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[eyeatoma]

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Luka doing great, but basically Embiid is doing fine, better than Jokic. Giannis is just lol.

[iggymcfrack]

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

-With Jokic and Doncic on the floor, the Nuggets' point differential is 7.9 points better per 100 possessions

-With Jokic and Doncic on the bench, the Mavericks' point differential is 12.9 points better per 100 possessions

-Jokic has 1 teammate with a positive BPM. He's played 13 games.

-Doncic has 3 teammates with positive BPMs. They've played 62 games.

By any objective measure, Luka's teammates have played much better than Jokic's teammates so far this year and the Mavericks still only have a one game better record due to playing a much easier schedule and getting lucky in close games. The Nuggets SRS is 3.2 points higher.

So does Luka make teammates better or he pounds the ball so others don't have rhythm? Mavs have 0 player from last year this time in the starting lineup playing with Luka. If we can agree that Mavs do not have a better lineup or healthier roster, they are over achieving by quite a lot, no? I don't even argue Luka is better, but there is no clear separation between them now when you judge using the criteria for MVP.

Luka’s teammates are overachieving, sure. If there’s a most valuable cheerleader award, Luka should be in the running for how well they play with him on the bench. There’s been 7 full games worth of minutes without Luka sitting and they’ve played better in those minutes than they have when he’s in the game.

In all seriousness, Exum has played incredibly well coming off the bench. That’s probably the biggest difference from last season. He should get consideration for 6th man. Lively’s emerging as a star as well. Luka being in the running for MVP with a negative on/off while being outside the top 5 for impact and box stats is absurd though. Nothing he’s done has been on the level of Joker, Embiid, SGA, Giannis, Hali, or LeBron.

[Hobo4President]

Yeh as of now for me its:
1. Embiid
2. SGA
3. Jokic

These are the clear top 3 to me

[eyeatoma]

Yeh as of now for me its:
1. Embiid
2. SGA
3. Jokic

These are the clear top 3 to me

Feel like Luka has to be there. He has been impressive.

[dygaction]

-With Jokic and Doncic on the floor, the Nuggets' point differential is 7.9 points better per 100 possessions

-With Jokic and Doncic on the bench, the Mavericks' point differential is 12.9 points better per 100 possessions

-Jokic has 1 teammate with a positive BPM. He's played 13 games.

-Doncic has 3 teammates with positive BPMs. They've played 62 games.

By any objective measure, Luka's teammates have played much better than Jokic's teammates so far this year and the Mavericks still only have a one game better record due to playing a much easier schedule and getting lucky in close games. The Nuggets SRS is 3.2 points higher.

So does Luka make teammates better or he pounds the ball so others don't have rhythm? Mavs have 0 player from last year this time in the starting lineup playing with Luka. If we can agree that Mavs do not have a better lineup or healthier roster, they are over achieving by quite a lot, no? I don't even argue Luka is better, but there is no clear separation between them now when you judge using the criteria for MVP.

Luka’s teammates are overachieving, sure. If there’s a most valuable cheerleader award, Luka should be in the running for how well they play with him on the bench. There’s been 7 full games worth of minutes without Luka sitting and they’ve played better in those minutes than they have when he’s in the game.

In all seriousness, Exum has played incredibly well coming off the bench. That’s probably the biggest difference from last season. He should get consideration for 6th man. Lively’s emerging as a star as well. Luka being in the running for MVP with a negative on/off while being outside the top 5 for impact and box stats is absurd though. Nothing he’s done has been on the level of Joker, Embiid, SGA, Giannis, Hali, or LeBron.

You don't watch the game at all... THJ is Mavs 3rd best paid player by far, and he is
actual leading or at least in serious competition for 6th man. Exum has had great stretch since Kyrie went down as a starter. Derrick Jones Jr. has been a solid starter on league min as well. Grant Williams is a great addition also. Among all of them, 19 yr Lively II might be the most valuable addition of the season. Luka gives you 37 min maximizing the cast to have a winning chance with anyone.
Mavs have THJ $18M/ Holmes $12M/ Kleber $11M tied on the bench and are due for a major trade or new sign with cap space next summer.

[Archx]

-With Jokic and Doncic on the floor, the Nuggets' point differential is 7.9 points better per 100 possessions

-With Jokic and Doncic on the bench, the Mavericks' point differential is 12.9 points better per 100 possessions

-Jokic has 1 teammate with a positive BPM. He's played 13 games.

-Doncic has 3 teammates with positive BPMs. They've played 62 games.

By any objective measure, Luka's teammates have played much better than Jokic's teammates so far this year and the Mavericks still only have a one game better record due to playing a much easier schedule and getting lucky in close games. The Nuggets SRS is 3.2 points higher.

So does Luka make teammates better or he pounds the ball so others don't have rhythm? Mavs have 0 player from last year this time in the starting lineup playing with Luka. If we can agree that Mavs do not have a better lineup or healthier roster, they are over achieving by quite a lot, no? I don't even argue Luka is better, but there is no clear separation between them now when you judge using the criteria for MVP.

Luka’s teammates are overachieving, sure. If there’s a most valuable cheerleader award, Luka should be in the running for how well they play with him on the bench. There’s been 7 full games worth of minutes without Luka sitting and they’ve played better in those minutes than they have when he’s in the game.

In all seriousness, Exum has played incredibly well coming off the bench. That’s probably the biggest difference from last season. He should get consideration for 6th man. Lively’s emerging as a star as well. Luka being in the running for MVP with a negative on/off while being outside the top 5 for impact and box stats is absurd though. Nothing he’s done has been on the level of Joker, Embiid, SGA, Giannis, Hali, or LeBron.

You continue to severly understimate lineup combinations that coaches throw out on the floor. It can incredibly effect players On/Off numbers.

I'll give example with Embiid who has great On/Off.

Embiid is featured in only 5 positive number lineup combinations out of 20, while Luka is featured in 12 out of 20. Kidd plays Luka with various players, even guys who were recently in Gleague. Nurse keeps Embiid lineups tight and is using him more with his best players.

Funny thing is, when Embiid is off the floor his team is still +5.4 pts while Mavs are +3.8 without Luka.

Long story short, i'm not completely disregarding On/Off but something doesn't add up. The other day you said Mavs are playing better without Luka and are not that bad. Well... Historically Mavs have 42% win % without Doncic while Philly has 44% win % without Embiid.

On/Off would make you believe Mavs are an actual WCF team without Luka. So

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

[Hussien Fatal]

Sixers lose but Joel had 40 14 4ast 3blks the lose doesn’t help but his numbers still keep him at the top of the MVP race.

[B_Creamy]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Didn't do too much when it really counted tho

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid is just on a level of his own!

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[BigGargamel]

Embiid missed a late shot. Take him off the ballot.

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Didn't do too much when it really counted tho

Had a big bucket in crunch time so you don’t know what your talking about. The reason the sixers lost was because they only had two players in double figures in maxey and Embiid. NOBODY else did anything worth noting.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Didn't do too much when it really counted tho

He was in foul trouble, refs were ridiculous.

[_NoMas]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Just to complete the picture, down 9 when Embiid sat at the end of the third, the sixers managed to cut the gap to 1 in his absence. On Embiids return to the game in crunch time he then went 1-5 and they lost by 4

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Didn't do too much when it really counted tho

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I will say this post isn’t entirely true Maxey did have 29pts but other than those two NOBODY did anything.

[LordCovington33]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Just to complete the picture, down 9 when Embiid sat at the end of the third, the sixers managed to cut the gap to 1 in his absence. On Embiids return to the game in crunch time he then went 1-5 and they lost by 4

It wasn’t his best game, that’s for sure. He was questionable before the match because of his hammy. Got into foul trouble in the third. Had 4 fouls. Got his fifth as soon as he entered in the 4th. Tried to stay out of foul trouble. He got 40/14/6 (37 minutes), but it doesn’t show the real story. His head wasn’t in it once he got his fourth.

One good thing is that our bench is looking more cohesive than seasons in the past. Next game.

[_NoMas]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Just to complete the picture, down 9 when Embiid sat at the end of the third, the sixers managed to cut the gap to 1 in his absence. On Embiids return to the game in crunch time he then went 1-5 and they lost by 4

It wasn’t his best game, that’s for sure. He was questionable before the match because of his hammy. Got into foul trouble in the third. Had 4 fouls. Got his fifth as soon as he entered in the 4th. Tried to stay out of foul trouble. He got 40/14/6 (37 minutes), but it doesn’t show the real story. His head wasn’t in it once he got his fourth.

One good thing is that our bench is looking more cohesive than seasons in the past. Next game.

Yeah I mean if 40 and 16 is a slightly off night it shows what level Embiid is playing at, guys on another level right now. Genuinely shocked when he misses one of those mid rangers

[LordCovington33]

Embiid with 36 and 13 at the end of the 3rd

Didn't do too much when it really counted tho

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I will say this post isn’t entirely true Maxey did have 29pts but other than those two NOBODY did anything.

Embiid was the only sixer starter with a negative on-off tonight. I don’t think he had a great defensive game tbh. Next game.

[AleksandarN]

Embiid is just on a level of his own!

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Is he though?

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[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid is just on a level of his own!

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Is he though?

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That only 3 games for luka and Gannis Embiid’s numbers are better for double the amount of time.
Embiid’s last 7 game so he’s averaging 40 13 and 5 so yes he’s on his own level atm.