Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[Klomp]

What would people think about a Shake Milton for Davion Mitchell trade?

I think the value would be good, but I'm not seeing how Mitchell would help the Wolves. Davion is a terrible shooter and with Anderson/Gobert in the rotation it would be really hard to add another non-shooter to the mix. Another issue is that Mitchell isn't really a PG meaning he wouldn't help much in shoring up the Wolves weakest spot. Anderson's skill set is more suited to the PG role than Mitchell.

I know he's not a "true PG", but his career AST/TO is not terrible at 2.89/1. (Note: In his career, Anderson's is 2.57/1)

Shooting is a question, but he brings elite defensive abilities to the table.

[Klomp]

Plus I believe they picked up his 6.5M option for next year.

We're going to need players under contract. You can't run out a team with only 10 players, and a few of those we add before now and the start of next season are going to be for over the minimum. That's just a fact.

[BlacJacMac]

Plus I believe they picked up his 6.5M option for next year.

We're going to need players under contract. You can't run out a team with only 10 players, and a few of those we add before now and the start of next season are going to be for over the minimum. That's just a fact.

Is he worth 6.5M?

I'm also not convinced his defense isn't more myth than reality. By BPM, he's been a negative all 3 seasons. He was a defensive positive by on/off his first 2 years, but he's terrible there this year.

Even if he is a good defender, I'm not sure a 6'1 guy with a 6'4 wingspan and almost no offensive game is what we're looking for.

SAC would probably do it just to clear his salary for next year as he barely plays for them anymore. Even Shake, who is barely in our rotation, has played 6 more games and 100 more minutes than Mitchell.

[wolves_89]

What would people think about a Shake Milton for Davion Mitchell trade?

I think the value would be good, but I'm not seeing how Mitchell would help the Wolves. Davion is a terrible shooter and with Anderson/Gobert in the rotation it would be really hard to add another non-shooter to the mix. Another issue is that Mitchell isn't really a PG meaning he wouldn't help much in shoring up the Wolves weakest spot. Anderson's skill set is more suited to the PG role than Mitchell.

I know he's not a "true PG", but his career AST/TO is not terrible at 2.89/1. (Note: In his career, Anderson's is 2.57/1)

Shooting is a question, but he brings elite defensive abilities to the table.

The defense makes him a little bit interesting, but I just don't see how he gets on the court. I'm not even convinced that he would be ahead of McLaughlin for guard minutes in most situations. I look at Mitchell and see a significantly smaller version of Josh Okogie.

[Klomp]

Plus I believe they picked up his 6.5M option for next year.

We're going to need players under contract. You can't run out a team with only 10 players, and a few of those we add before now and the start of next season are going to be for over the minimum. That's just a fact.

Is he worth 6.5M?

I'm also not convinced his defense isn't more myth than reality. By BPM, he's been a negative all 3 seasons. He was a defensive positive by on/off his first 2 years, but he's terrible there this year.

Even if he is a good defender, I'm not sure a 6'1 guy with a 6'4 wingspan and almost no offensive game is what we're looking for.

SAC would probably do it just to clear his salary for next year as he barely plays for them anymore. Even Shake, who is barely in our rotation, has played 6 more games and 100 more minutes than Mitchell.

He might not be the guy.

I'm just trying to keep options open as we look at possible deadline acquisitions. I think a lot of people are looking at veterans, but our cap situation might limit us to mainly guys on rookie/cost-controlled deals. Mitchell is on that list along with guys like Ayo Dosunmu, Jaden Ivey, Andrew Nembhard, Bones Hyland, etc.

[BlacJacMac]

I get that. But I don't want to shake (no pun intended) up the group we have just to shake it up.

If we can improve our team, absolutely - but if its a lateral-ish move, I don't want to rock the boat.

[shrink]

At this point, when I look at the underwhelming players we can trade Shake Milton for, and the limited assets we can add in, I rarely see a guy that I think is a better than simply doing nothing, retain chemistry, and hope Milton can return even to his historic averages. Boring.

[thinktank]

If Jordan Clarkson is available the Wolves should absolutely be on the phone!

[Klomp]

If Jordan Clarkson is available the Wolves should absolutely be on the phone!

That would be incredible, but very difficult to pull off...

[winforlose]

If Jordan Clarkson is available the Wolves should absolutely be on the phone!

That would be incredible, but very difficult to pull off...

Only way this works is LM and Clarkson, for KAT and Shake. If LM could replace some of KAT’s production and Clarkson becomes a massive upgrade of Shake. I am not sure I would make this trade, but it is basically the only way.

[BlacJacMac]

If Jordan Clarkson is available the Wolves should absolutely be on the phone!

That would be incredible, but very difficult to pull off...

Only way this works is LM and Clarkson, for KAT and Shake. If LM could replace some of KAT’s production and Clarkson becomes a massive upgrade of Shake. I am not sure I would make this trade, but it is basically the only way.

I wouldn't.

I like Lauri a lot, but he's not as good as KAT, is due for a sizable raise soon and is (surprisingly to me) only 2 years younger than KAT.

And I've never been a Clarkson fan - and really don't want to pay him close to 30M over the next 2 years.

[winforlose]

Is Luka Garza a great trade sweetener if we decide to make a move? Assuming we are not going to convert him, would a team like Washington, Detroit, or others want to acquire him to convert him?

[wolves_89]

At this point, when I look at the players we can trade Shake Milton for, and the limited assets we can add in, I rarely see a guy that I think is a better than simply doing nothing, retain chemistry, and hope Milton can return even to his historic averages. Boring.

This is pretty much where I'm at in terms of trades. Milton hasn't given the team much yet, but when you look at guys that we could get for him I just haven't seen anything that makes me think the team would be better after a trade. I believe any Anderson deal would be similar. If I had to guess on what the Wolves do before the trade deadline, it would be a very small trade of Moore (and maybe a 2nd or two) for a fringe rotation guard like Hyland or Dunn.

[winforlose]

At this point, when I look at the players we can trade Shake Milton for, and the limited assets we can add in, I rarely see a guy that I think is a better than simply doing nothing, retain chemistry, and hope Milton can return even to his historic averages. Boring.

This is pretty much where I'm at in terms of trades. Milton hasn't given the team much yet, but when you look at guys that we could get for him I just haven't seen much of anything that makes me think the team would be better after a trade. I believe any Anderson deal would be similar. If I had to guess on what the Wolves do before the trade deadline, it would be a very small trade of Moore (and maybe a 2nd or two) for a fringe rotation guard like Hyland or Dunn.

Patrick Beverly. Philly would do it because they love Shake and wanted to keep him. They get that second year as well. Pat Bev is friends with Karl, Ant, MCD, and Naz. He is a culture setter, a decent backup for Mike who can play for 30+ in a playoff series. He gives us another on ball defender and floor spacer. Also we save enough money to basically sign anyone we want in the buyout market. Fanspo says we save 2.9 million. I gotta believe that 2.9 can make us better.

[Klomp]

At this point, when I look at the players we can trade Shake Milton for, and the limited assets we can add in, I rarely see a guy that I think is a better than simply doing nothing, retain chemistry, and hope Milton can return even to his historic averages. Boring.

This is pretty much where I'm at in terms of trades. Milton hasn't given the team much yet, but when you look at guys that we could get for him I just haven't seen much of anything that makes me think the team would be better after a trade. I believe any Anderson deal would be similar. If I had to guess on what the Wolves do before the trade deadline, it would be a very small trade of Moore (and maybe a 2nd or two) for a fringe rotation guard like Hyland or Dunn.

While I agree with the sentiment, a year ago, we would've had the same type of comments about getting Nickeil Alexander-Walker in a trade. Environments matter.

[shrink]

At this point, when I look at the players we can trade Shake Milton for, and the limited assets we can add in, I rarely see a guy that I think is a better than simply doing nothing, retain chemistry, and hope Milton can return even to his historic averages. Boring.

This is pretty much where I'm at in terms of trades. Milton hasn't given the team much yet, but when you look at guys that we could get for him I just haven't seen anything that makes me think the team would be better after a trade. I believe any Anderson deal would be similar. If I had to guess on what the Wolves do before the trade deadline, it would be a very small trade of Moore (and maybe a 2nd or two) for a fringe rotation guard like Hyland or Dunn.

Right. I’ve been so desperate to find a back up PG that I think I was losing sight of the reality of the situation. For example, take Jordan MacLaughlin. On our team right now, we don’t play him at all. If he was on another team, I’d make him a top (cheap) trade target, since he can run an offense and already knows how to play with the team.

The reality is, we are so locked up financially and asset-wise, any more we make needs to be something that makes a difference, and doesn’t disrupt our chemistry. Right now, Finch plays Kyle Anderson and NAW as “back up point guards,” with additional playmaking from Ant and KAT. And yes, none of them are true PG’s like Conley, but we don’t struggle from a lack of offensive cohesion when these guys are on the floor.

Do I know somebody like Delon Wright is going to be better than Shake for the rest of the season? Do I even know he’d be better than MacLaughlin? I don’t want us to chase a questionable deal because of fear. No team has everything - the CBA prevents a team from affording that. But the Wolves have lots of strengths, and those strengths - even without a high caliber back up PG, have done pretty well this season.

[TimberKat]

I think the best option is if WAS buys out Jones and he want to come home. Otherwise, this is why Connelly makes the big bucks. The trade chips are KA, Milton, JMcL and 2nds. Is ALEX CARUSO better fit? For big trades it's JMcD and Naz - Do we really want to disrupt the chemistry? It would need to be another proven star. Jordan Poole won't cut it. We would build a big 4 like BOS.

[winforlose]

I think the best option is if WAS buys out Jones and he want to come home. Otherwise, this is why Connelly makes the big bucks. The trade chips are KA, Milton, JMcL and 2nds. Is ALEX CARUSO better fit? For big trades it's JMcD and Naz - Do we really want to disrupt the chemistry? It would need to be another proven star. Jordan Poole won't cut it. We would build a big 4 like BOS.

1. A bought out Tyus is a rental. Next year without his bird rights we cannot pay him.

2. The issue is not only this year but next year. We might not have Kyle next year and Mike will be a year older. We have very little money to sign someone off the street and our draft pick will hopefully be late 20s or even 30. That makes it hard to draft a play now PG.

3. We are hoping for a finals run and winning a chip. Are you comfortable with Kyle or JMAC as your playoff PG if Mike gets hurt? That is what we are really talking about. If Mike goes down what is our backup plan. Does Jordan or Kyle beat the Nuggets in the WCF, or the Celtics in the finals? We both know Playoff basketball is very different from regular season.

4. @Klomp. Kyle is a great player in certain situations. But so was V8 and JO. In the playoffs it is really hard to play one way players. If Kyle turns into bargain Ben Simmons (the path he is on now,) is that better than a Tyus Jones?

[Colbinii]

3. We are hoping for a finals run and winning a chip. Are you comfortable with Kyle or JMAC as your playoff PG if Mike gets hurt? That is what we are really talking about. If Mike goes down what is our backup plan. Does Jordan or Kyle beat the Nuggets in the WCF, or the Celtics in the finals? We both know Playoff basketball is very different from regular season.

Eh, it's a bit more nuanced than that.

ANT/NAW slide to the 1 and you run ANT/NAW/McDaniels/KAT/Gobert.

You let ANT/KAT increase their usage offensively.

4. @Klomp. Kyle is a great player in certain situations. But so was V8 and JO. In the playoffs it is really hard to play one way players. If Kyle turns into bargain Ben Simmons (the path he is on now,) is that better than a Tyus Jones?

Yeah, because Tyus is a huge negative defensively in the playoffs.

I think you also need to realize that no team is bullet proof from an injury. If a key player gets injured, then the odds of winning drop drastically.

The Nuggets were healthy in 2023 and won. They wouldn't have won if they weren't healthy.

The 2022 Warriors beat a Nuggets team without Jamal Murray. The Nuggets win the next year when healthy.

The 2021 Bucks won because they played against injured teams like the Nets and the Clippers got unlucky with Kawhi getting injured.

[winforlose]

3. We are hoping for a finals run and winning a chip. Are you comfortable with Kyle or JMAC as your playoff PG if Mike gets hurt? That is what we are really talking about. If Mike goes down what is our backup plan. Does Jordan or Kyle beat the Nuggets in the WCF, or the Celtics in the finals? We both know Playoff basketball is very different from regular season.

Eh, it's a bit more nuanced than that.

ANT/NAW slide to the 1 and you run ANT/NAW/McDaniels/KAT/Gobert.

You let ANT/KAT increase their usage offensively.

4. @Klomp. Kyle is a great player in certain situations. But so was V8 and JO. In the playoffs it is really hard to play one way players. If Kyle turns into bargain Ben Simmons (the path he is on now,) is that better than a Tyus Jones?

Yeah, because Tyus is a huge negative defensively in the playoffs.

I think you also need to realize that no team is bullet proof from an injury. If a key player gets injured, then the odds of winning drop drastically.

The Nuggets were healthy in 2023 and won. They wouldn't have won if they weren't healthy.

The 2022 Warriors beat a Nuggets team without Jamal Murray. The Nuggets win the next year when healthy.

The 2021 Bucks won because they played against injured teams like the Nets and the Clippers got unlucky with Kawhi getting injured.

Finch talks about the importance of an actual PG late game. We lost against the Griz because of hero ball. Ant is not and will never be a true PG. NAW is a solid wing defender but clearly not great at running the offense. Tyus might not be an A+ defender, but he is more than good enough to be the backup PG on a playoff team. More importantly he can spell Mike for a number of games this year so we have Mike fresh and healthy for the playoffs. Going forward he is a nice no mistakes facilitator who can play with Ant, KAT, Jaden, and Rudy. Lastly, how much better is Mike than Tyus at defense?