Trae Young is Ridiculously Underrated

johanliebert · Post #541 » by **johanliebert** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 8:31 pm

Sothron wrote:It is clear who has actually watched him play a game since Dec 2022 and going forwards. He's not bad on defense anymore. 2020 called and wants its trash Trae talking point back. He's significantly improved his defense while still being the best passer, by far, in the NBA.

now what fake metrics say this :lol:

hes 6'1 he will always be hunted in the playoffs.

AussieCeltic · Post #542 » by **AussieCeltic** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 9:04 pm

Sothron wrote:It is clear who has actually watched him play a game since Dec 2022 and going forwards. He's not bad on defense anymore. 2020 called and wants its trash Trae talking point back. He's significantly improved his defense while still being the best passer, by far, in the NBA.

Nah he’s still a poor defender. Advanced stats say it, the eye test says it. I mean, if he was good on defense, the Hawks might be better than 9-12

Post #543 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 10:07 pm

Yep, all the evidence being posted showing Trae is really good on offense? check.
Making up he's good at defense because he plays for my favorite team? Uncheck.

No need to do that either. Everyone knows his lack of size/strength means its basically impossible for him to be even a neutral defender in a PNR league. Everyone without a bias also knows he refuses to give consistent effort on top of that.

And before it gets said, yes Luka has the same effort issue at times. Sad I have to say that, but I know this drill.

But Trae is a great player. No need to be so insecure as to just make up stuff though.

Ball4life32 · Post #544 » by **Ball4life32** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 11:11 pm

Trae has absolutely improved on defense. Not sure why that’s laughable. Im not saying he’s neutral but he’s absolutely not the worst defender in the league. And he’s at +0.1 DEPM (69th percentile) and hawks have an absolute terrible 122drating even when he’s on the bench.

jayu70 · Post #545 » by **jayu70** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 11:21 pm

He will never be confused as a defensive specialist, but he's trending out of purgatory in some categories.

Read on Twitter

Caruso.

Post #546 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Dec 9, 2023 11:24 pm

Ball4life32 wrote:Trae has absolutely improved on defense. Not sure why that’s laughable. Im not saying he’s neutral but he’s absolutely not the worst defender in the league. And he’s at +0.1 DEPM (69th percentile) and hawks have an absolute terrible 122drating even when he’s on the bench.

The post was made he is no longer bad(meaning at least neutral). He's not neutral, as you agree. I at no point itt said he was the worst, though I'd wager considering his size, inconsistent effort, and offensive load, he's probably still much closer to the worst than he is neutral. Just because the Hawks defense is bad without him doesn't mean he's not bad. Just means the whole defense is bad.

But none of that really matters, other than trying to be honest, his value is all about the other end and there is just no argument he's not one of the very best offensive players in the league. He's brilliant and his offensive value more than offsets his defensive issues.

81Zees · Post #547 » by **81Zees** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:00 am

Trae is not underrated. He is a great offensive player with poor defense. Not a true superstar. Top 30 player.

Sothron · Post #548 » by **Sothron** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:21 am

AussieCeltic wrote:
Sothron wrote:It is clear who has actually watched him play a game since Dec 2022 and going forwards. He's not bad on defense anymore. 2020 called and wants its trash Trae talking point back. He's significantly improved his defense while still being the best passer, by far, in the NBA.

Nah he’s still a poor defender. Advanced stats say it, the eye test says it. I mean, if he was good on defense, the Hawks might be better than 9-12

Actually, advanced stats say he is not. Eye test since mid Dec 2022 says it. Just because you don't watch the Hawks or want to admit the obvious doesn't make it less true.

There's this thing called being average. Or slightly above or below average. Trae is in the average to slightly below average to slightly above average variance. His defense has went from very poor to that area. That is a gigantic improvement for someone that bad. It is like Andre Drummond suddenly hitting 70% of his free throws. No one would say he's one of the best FT shooters in the league but you would admit he's greatly improved and isn't a huge negative on that end.

shangrila · Post #549 » by **shangrila** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:19 am

Sothron wrote:
AussieCeltic wrote:
Sothron wrote:It is clear who has actually watched him play a game since Dec 2022 and going forwards. He's not bad on defense anymore. 2020 called and wants its trash Trae talking point back. He's significantly improved his defense while still being the best passer, by far, in the NBA.

Nah he’s still a poor defender. Advanced stats say it, the eye test says it. I mean, if he was good on defense, the Hawks might be better than 9-12

Actually, advanced stats say he is not. Eye test since mid Dec 2022 says it. Just because you don't watch the Hawks or want to admit the obvious doesn't make it less true.

There's this thing called being average. Or slightly above or below average. Trae is in the average to slightly below average to slightly above average variance. His defense has went from very poor to that area. That is a gigantic improvement for someone that bad. It is like Andre Drummond suddenly hitting 70% of his free throws. No one would say he's one of the best FT shooters in the league but you would admit he's greatly improved and isn't a huge negative on that end.

Which stats?

ChuckChilly · Post #550 » by **ChuckChilly** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:53 pm

Trae's defense has improved this year. Much more engaged and anticipation is better. That's all I can ask for at this point.

wco81 · Post #551 » by **wco81** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:25 pm

He's no Tyreese Haliburton.

Post #552 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:37 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #553 » by **Jamaaliver** » Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:58 am

The Andre Drummond of Point Guards... :roll:

Read on Twitter

FarBeyondDriven · Post #554 » by **FarBeyondDriven** » Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:04 am

he's been underrated going all the way back to when he was coming out of H.S. His size will always limit him and his team but his offense is enough to overcome it. People have historically had no issue ignoring defense when it comes to Westbrook, Harden, Luka, etc so I'm just assuming they don't care as much because those players are bigger and Trae is tiny, even though it's similar defense at the end of the day?

Post #555 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:25 am

Post #556 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:35 am

3ball dropping changing his tone on offense? Check. He's shooting 37.8% on 9.0 3PA/g right now, and it's clearly making a difference after shooting 33.5% last year. He's also shooting over 51% inside the arc, which is another nice step up from last season. He's about 0.9% above league average efficiency right now, which isn't stunning, of course. That isn't awesome for a volume scorer, but while he isn't as good as he was in 2022, he's better than he was last year and also trending up. That's definitely good for Atlanta.

Trash garbage for 4 games in October. Much better in November for 13 games (he actually averaged 59.4% TS over that stretch, a little better than his current seasonal average), and he's averaged 62.6% TS so far in December. He's going to stop shooting 43.2% from 3 at some point and it will settle again, but whatever. Trae has definitely been playing very well over this recent stretch.

We'll see how this breaks out as the season progresses, but he's got a good groove on at the moment.

wco81 · Post #557 » by **wco81** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:38 pm

Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

ChuckChilly · Post #558 » by **ChuckChilly** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:38 pm

wco81 wrote:Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

GSW was 12-14 before last nights win. One game difference from the Hawks. Does that make Curry's numbers in those losses empty stats?

PhilBlackson · Post #559 » by **PhilBlackson** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:38 pm

I think he's fairly accurately rated tbh.

wco81 · Post #560 » by **wco81** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:40 pm

ChuckChilly wrote:
wco81 wrote:Hawks are 11-15, #10 in the EC and 3-7 in their last 10 games. I believe one of those wins was vs. the Pistons and they only won by 6 points?

They will contend for the play-in and maybe #5 or #6 seed if the Knicks and Cavs fall back.

It's great that Trae's numbers have picked up but it seems like the Hawks haven't been playing well?

Wouldn't that be the definition of empty stats?

GSW was 12-14 before last nights win. Does that make Curry's numbers in those losses empty stats?

No, the 4 rings and 2 MVPs do that.

You're really going to compare Trae to Curry?