NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[AleksandarN]

Giannis with one of the ultimate stinkers. Those assists were a saving grace, but even without Wemby. That scoring way below par given that this is one of the worst teams in the league. Dame saved their ass.

I know you like to take down other players to prop up Embiid, but this take is really low even for your standards. A triple-double with career-high assist numbers, it was an amazing game from Giannis, who by virtue of his assists, created by dragging multiple defenders to him every time he went into the lane, was able to propel Dame to his first 40 pt game of the season.

You're just outing yourself as a ppggzzzzz guy, which is fair enough because it's all Embiid has to hang his hat on, the scoring title.

Nope all it shows is that he is one dimensional offensively. If he can't bully his way to the rim he's pretty much figured out. I already said the assists were a saving grace.

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All it shows you didn’t watch the game

[AleksandarN]

How does 16 assists show he’s one dimensional? If anything it shows he can impact the game when he doesn’t have the scoring going.

As a scorer he is one dimensional.

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That’s not what you said. You said and I quote” one dimensional offensively “. Nice try

[AleksandarN]

Shaq was the best big before Jokic.
Giannis is a different story.
He's big in terms of size but his playing style has no comparison past or present.
If someone can drop 30 with 65% in free throws and 23% in 3s then he's simply unstoppable.
The fact that his playoffs averages are better than his regular season averages show everything.
Add the playmaking ability and the defensive brilliance and you have the definition of a generational player.

I don't know if he will another MVP or not but the fact is that he's constantly in the top5 voting in the past 5 seasons. And the season prior('18) he was 7th.
I get the voter fatigue and all that.
I believe he still has 5 years of total dominance in front of him. If injuries don't occur then maybe this window can be 7-8 years.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis and Jokic have that potential. Very very special generational players

[Packbuckman]

Giannis with one of the ultimate stinkers. Those assists were a saving grace, but even without Wemby. That scoring way below par given that this is one of the worst teams in the league. Dame saved their ass.

I know you like to take down other players to prop up Embiid, but this take is really low even for your standards. A triple-double with career-high assist numbers, it was an amazing game from Giannis, who by virtue of his assists, created by dragging multiple defenders to him every time he went into the lane, was able to propel Dame to his first 40 pt game of the season.

You're just outing yourself as a ppggzzzzz guy, which is fair enough because it's all Embiid has to hang his hat on, the scoring title.

And defense (rebounds and blocks) and assists. More than Giannis in all those categories.

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You need to watch the games before your hot takes. Giannis should have had over 20 assists tonite he was in playmaker mode. Dame was great the others like Pat were wide open and missed a lot.

[Wolfgang630]

We had KG, Duncan and Dirk. Now we have Jokic, Embiid and Giannis. From one generational bigs to the next

[The-Power]

You need to watch the games before your hot takes. Giannis should have had over 20 assists tonite he was in playmaker mode. Dame was great the others like Pat were wide open and missed a lot.

Giannis had 20 potential assists according to tracking data. Players were converting 80% on shots assisted by him. 20 assists would have meant that the players converted all of their shot attempts and more than 20 assists would have literally been impossible if we trust the official tracking data. And if that data is wrong, I'd like that to be proven.

Moreover, players miss shots. Even the best shooters in the world tend to miss half or more of their open shots. That's just normal. But fans love to argue that their player ‘should have had more assists if his teammates were hitting their shots’ as if any made shot is just to be expected and every missed shot should have gone in. But that's not reality.

The poster you're quoting is wrong for his comments regarding Giannis. It's that poster's shtick borne out of a deep insecurity about Embiid and his standing in the league. But it's best to simply ignore such noise and not to steer right into the opposite direction with claims about Giannis and his last game that are faulty, too.

[MavsDirk41]

Luka and Mavs has 0 chances. You can't be totally dependant on rookie C and hoping that Kyrie plays games, while having few nonstarters in starting unit. They need a big upgrade on 4 and at least decent backup C, to even come in conversation.

Maybe he meant Luka winning the MVP, not the NBA title for the Mavs. There's always a chance for Doncic to win the trophy if Dallas end the season as Top 5 team in the West and Luka finish the season strong as narrative to sway the voters. I won't even count them out as darkhorse contender, Luka and healthy Kyrie are proven playoffs performers and you always have a chance if you have those 2 stars in your roster come playoffs time but they need another big to have a fighting chance, maybe someone like Capela or even Dwight Howard if they can't get anyone past trade deadline.

Just watch with what roster they will play today and what kind of roster have Clippers. Kyrie missing is unfortunately a norm and Lively is a 19 years old rookie. Capela would have for sure help, but Mavs don't have anything interesting to get him.

They could have traded for Capela in the summer but Atlanta wanted Green or Hardy included in the offer and the Mavs said no - according to i think Marc Stein

[eyeatoma]

You need to watch the games before your hot takes. Giannis should have had over 20 assists tonite he was in playmaker mode. Dame was great the others like Pat were wide open and missed a lot.

Giannis had 20 potential assists according to tracking data. Players were converting 80% on shots assisted by him. 20 assists would have meant that the players converted all of their shot attempts and more than 20 assists would have literally been impossible if we trust the official tracking data. And if that data is wrong, I'd like that to be proven.

Moreover, players miss shots. Even the best shooters in the world tend to miss half or more of their open shots. That's just normal. But fans love to argue that their player ‘should have had more assists if his teammates were hitting their shots’ as if any made shot is just to be expected and every missed shot should have gone in. But that's not reality.

The poster you're quoting is wrong for his comments regarding Giannis. It's that poster's shtick borne out of a deep insecurity about Embiid and his standing in the league. But it's best to simply ignore such noise and not to steer right into the opposite direction with claims about Giannis and his last game that are faulty, too.

It's the 2nd worst team in the league. Guaranteed if Embiid did it, people would be up in arms about the paltry scoring.

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[Wigginstime]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

[LordCovington33]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

The top 10 is pretty hard to crack. Nowhere near Duncan and you can’t put him ahead of the likes of Curry and Kobe. Even if he ends up as a top 15 player, that’s a hell of a job. Anyway, that discussion is for another time.

[Special_Puppy]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

To crack the top 10, Giannis has to have had a better career than 4 of these players (including players that are on the bubble of a lot of peoples top 10 lists)
-Tim Duncan
-Kevin Garnett
-David Robinson
-Shaquille O’Neal
-Magic Johnson
-Wilt Chamberlin
-Larry Bird

That's a tall task

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

https://hoopshype.com/lists/77-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/
As a Giannis homer, he needs 2 more rings to be in Top 10 conversations, let alone actually crack it. I think his floor is 17 passing Dirk and KG once he gets longevity stats. His realistic ceiling (assuming him and Dame don't 3-4 peat) is probably 13. Don't see him passing Steph, and KD/Hakeem would be tough to beat unless he gets 2 more rings.

[Special_Puppy]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

https://hoopshype.com/lists/77-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/
As a Giannis homer, he needs 2 more rings to be in Top 10 conversations, let alone actually crack it. I think his floor is 17 passing Dirk and KG once he gets longevity stats. His realistic ceiling (assuming him and Dame don't 3-4 peat) is probably 13. Don't see him passing Steph, and KD/Hakeem would be tough to beat unless he gets 2 more rings.

Probably needs another MVP too

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

To crack the top 10, Giannis has to have had a better career than 4 of these players (including players that are on the bubble of a lot of peoples top 10 lists)
Assuming: MJ, LBJ, KAJ, Bill, Kobe
-Tim Duncan
-Kevin Garnett
-David Robinson
-Shaquille O’Neal
-Magic Johnson
-Wilt Chamberlin
-Larry Bird

That's a tall task

Interesting you think Kobe is a lock Top 10 considering others on your list. But you point is a good one. You are also excluding KD, Hakeem and Curry who all are tiers above Giannis right now. Titles are hard and the only way I see him passing those 3 is if he gets atleast 1 more.

[iggymcfrack]

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

To crack the top 10, Giannis has to have had a better career than 4 of these players (including players that are on the bubble of a lot of peoples top 10 lists)
Assuming: MJ, LBJ, KAJ, Bill, Kobe
-Tim Duncan
-Kevin Garnett
-David Robinson
-Shaquille O’Neal
-Magic Johnson
-Wilt Chamberlin
-Larry Bird

That's a tall task

Interesting you think Kobe is a lock Top 10 considering others on your list. But you point is a good one. You are also excluding KD, Hakeem and Curry who all are tiers above Giannis right now. Titles are hard and the only way I see him passing those 3 is if he gets atleast 1 more.

Giannis may never crack the top ten but he’s already had a much better career than KD and Kobe. They’re both too one dimensional in that they don’t do a lot other than score. Giannis has 4 seasons (‘19, ‘20, ‘21, ‘22) that neither of them can touch.

[Wolfgang630]

Giannis doesn’t have a better career than Kobe

[Ron Swanson]

Can't believe we still have to listen to arguments that KD and David Robinson were/are better players than Giannis. And that's even giving KG a pass because I know how worshipped he is on this site (although I guess that's more of a PC board thing).

[Packbuckman]

You need to watch the games before your hot takes. Giannis should have had over 20 assists tonite he was in playmaker mode. Dame was great the others like Pat were wide open and missed a lot.

Giannis had 20 potential assists according to tracking data. Players were converting 80% on shots assisted by him. 20 assists would have meant that the players converted all of their shot attempts and more than 20 assists would have literally been impossible if we trust the official tracking data. And if that data is wrong, I'd like that to be proven.

Moreover, players miss shots. Even the best shooters in the world tend to miss half or more of their open shots. That's just normal. But fans love to argue that their player ‘should have had more assists if his teammates were hitting their shots’ as if any made shot is just to be expected and every missed shot should have gone in. But that's not reality.

The poster you're quoting is wrong for his comments regarding Giannis. It's that poster's shtick borne out of a deep insecurity about Embiid and his standing in the league. But it's best to simply ignore such noise and not to steer right into the opposite direction with claims about Giannis and his last game that are faulty, too.

Pat Beasley and Payne were a combined 2-13 from 3 i meant to say 20 assists it seemed like every pass to them from Giannis they missed. We shot 36% from 3 as a team. Jackson the rook also was passing great he needs to start instead of Beasley

[Snake3]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

To crack the top 10, Giannis has to have had a better career than 4 of these players (including players that are on the bubble of a lot of peoples top 10 lists)
-Tim Duncan
-Kevin Garnett
-David Robinson
-Shaquille O’Neal
-Magic Johnson
-Wilt Chamberlin
-Larry Bird

That's a tall task

I feel like with the accomplishments he has now, you can argue that he's had a better career than KG and David Robinson. He not only has more mvps, but he also contributed more to his championship. You could say he played better relative to his era as opposed to theirs.

The other ones are a harder task. Given the talent in the league rn and the parity, I assume it's going to be hard. And I also don't see him surpassing Tim Duncan. That's a high task. But you never know.

[rilamann]

Giannis is a different story.

When all is said and done he will be right outside the top10 ever. If he adds another title, then he may crack the top10.
Glad that i witnessed it since its beginning.

I think Giannis would definitely need another ring to crack the top 10. Right now the only PF that is generally accepted in the top10 is Duncan and i don't seen Giannis closing that gap.

The question is what does Giannis need to do to become the 2nd greatest PF to every play the game of basketball and being considered above:
KG
Malone
Barkely
Dirk

If Giannis retired today he would be ranked ahead of KG.

And by the time Giannis actually does retire he should easily be #2 all-time behind only Duncan if we're talking strictly PFs.