Around the League -All Star Game

[MickeyDavis]

I think KP plays tonight and Al sits. Should be a fun game (NBATV).

Other games of interest tonight are Orlando/Miami (we play Orlando tomorrow night, tough B2B for them).

Wolves/Sixers should be fun (NBATV).

Hornets/Pacers, should be an easy Pacers win at home but they've lost 4 in a row and are struggling. A home loss to the Hornets would be a big deal.

Clippers/Mavericks. Both 16-10. Clippers 9-1 their last 10.

[sidney lanier]

Over the years it's been interesting to see how this board falls in love with certain players. The Caruso infatuation is only the latest in a long line of strange love affairs.

In the eyes of the rest of the world, Caruso's value is significantly lower than among some here. There is speculation that the Bulls might send him to the Lakers along with DeRozan for Austin Reaves and pieces. That's something you wouldn't see if he were really a wing stopper along the lines of Sidney Moncrief or even Jrue.

Sometimes I think these odd fixations are remnants of glory days for those of us who played basketball along the way and see in certain NBA players, especially those like Caruso who are mostly devoid of elite athleticism, a reflection of our own limited selves.

Uh no. There is no unathletic white guy projection here. Most of us recognize that most NBA contenders have glue guys, who are able to defend, and take the offense when it comes to them. Caruso is in a long line of guys like PJ Tucker, Tony Allen, Kurt Rambis, etc., who compliment stars extremely well.

Robert Horry played 16 seasons in the league. He only averaged more than 10ppg in three of his first four. None thereafter. And those three seasons over 10ppg were 10.1, 10.2 and 12ppg. Yet he’s got 7 rings and everyone remembers his contributions.

I like glue guys, and I'm even willing to give anemic stats and poor on-off a pass if they ace the Bobby Jones Memorial Do-The-Intangibles Test.



Caruso does not.

[MiltownHawkeye]

I listened to Lowe's pod and sheesh, whoever brought up how hard they're fellating the Celtics wasn't kidding. If you were only listening to narratives you'd think they were 24-2.

I don't think there's a single contender without huge question marks right now.

[German Athens]

Caruso has had a positive on-off every season. He’s been at least a +7 in 4 of his 7 seasons. Considering he’s predominantly been a bench player in his career, those numbers are all the more impressive.

He’s really good, and would help us a ton.

If you are looking for something to give you pause, I’d say health would probably be the biggest concern.

[Ron Swanson]

If you're looking for pause, it's that Caruso isn't really a "two-way" player and we need to stop calling him that. Him and guys like Matisse Thybulle are the definition of "defensive specialists". Caruso can both be a great fit for this team now that we have Dame instead of Jrue, but also be incredibly overrated because we've collectively overvalued perimeter defense in the absence of Jrue to the same degree that we overvalued "shot creation" to an absurd extent in the offseason when half this board was debating trading our last draft capital for Collin Sexton.

[PG Graveyard]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

[theFireBlanket]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

Oh, hellllllll no.

[sidney lanier]

Caruso has had a positive on-off every season. He’s been at least a +7 in 4 of his 7 seasons. Considering he’s predominantly been a bench player in his career, those numbers are all the more impressive.

He’s really good, and would help us a ton.

If you are looking for something to give you pause, I’d say health would probably be the biggest concern.

His career BPM (box plus/minus) is 0.3. I understand the illusory appeal of Caruso. He hustles, he dives for loose balls, he challenges shots, he wears a goofy headband. He also misses a healthy fraction of games because he's frequently unhealthy, and in the final analysis he moves no needles. The Bulls suck about as hard with him or without him. Hard pass.

[Prez]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

I'm irrationally high on Dre so nah. I'd trade MarJon/Pat/Portland 2nd for him in a heartbeat though.

[Prez]

Caruso has had a positive on-off every season. He’s been at least a +7 in 4 of his 7 seasons. Considering he’s predominantly been a bench player in his career, those numbers are all the more impressive.

He’s really good, and would help us a ton.

If you are looking for something to give you pause, I’d say health would probably be the biggest concern.

His career BPM (box plus/minus) is 0.3. I understand the illusory appeal of Caruso. He hustles, he dives for loose balls, he challenges shots, he wears a goofy headband. He also misses a healthy fraction of games because he's frequently unhealthy, and in the final analysis he moves no needles. Hard pass.

BPM is a garbage stat when it comes to evaluating impact.

And "challenges shots" is a pretty dismissive way to describe one of the best defensive guards in basketball, like at worst top 5 with a real argument for #1. He absolutely does move the needle and literally every single contender in the league would love to have him.

[sidney lanier]

Caruso has had a positive on-off every season. He’s been at least a +7 in 4 of his 7 seasons. Considering he’s predominantly been a bench player in his career, those numbers are all the more impressive.

He’s really good, and would help us a ton.

If you are looking for something to give you pause, I’d say health would probably be the biggest concern.

His career BPM (box plus/minus) is 0.3. I understand the illusory appeal of Caruso. He hustles, he dives for loose balls, he challenges shots, he wears a goofy headband. He also misses a healthy fraction of games because he's frequently unhealthy, and in the final analysis he moves no needles. Hard pass.

BPM is a garbage stat when it comes to evaluating impact.

And "challenges shots" is a pretty dismissive way to describe one of the best defensive guards in basketball, like at worst top 5 with a real argument for #1. He absolutely does move the needle and literally every single contender in the league would love to have him.

In his current three-year stint with the Bulls, they are 97-95 with an average Rel Drtg of 0.2 and one playoff appearance (first-round exit). If that ain't lack of impact it will have to do until the real thing comes along.

[skones]

Has there been a bigger disappointment of a player in the modern era than Zion? Guys like Hill, Oden, Penny etc were cruelled by injuries but I'm struggling to remember a player with immense potential like Zion who simply didn't care enough to be great.

Derrick Coleman was always the classic example of this for mine. Maybe Andrew Bynum too?

I think the hype that Zion had puts him on a pedestal for sure, but you look at a guy like Ayton and you have to wonder how in the **** he's not dominating this league. Ben Simmons as well.

Ben Simmons is different for me. He actually did achieve a heap in a short time, and then never got any better. If he stayed as he was, he would still have had a fantastic career, but a what if? with his jumper. But then he got that mental block, and he doesn't seem to have had the maturity or mental fortitude to overcome it. And then he got the injuries. I think he's always worked pretty hard too.

I am definitely not trying to downplay the effects of his mental health issues. He and Fultz are the big NBA examples of how those problems can be as destructive as physical ones. Fultz seems to have developed the strength to overcome his, whereas now that Ben may have, his body is failing him.

Simmons, I guess for me, it's that lack of true development/unwillingness to expand his game. Mental health is certainly a big deal, but so is taking it seriously and you personally taking the necessary steps to overcome that aspect. I'm not sure Ben Simmons has ever made the maximum effort there in order to do that. There were questions about this during his time at LSU, and those concerns look like they ring true more than not even with injuries aside.

I DO think there's a difference between he and Fultz though. With Fultz, I definitely think there's some nerve damage and a physical response to that. He's put in a tremendous amount of work in an effort to overcome that and transform how he as a player operates. That's not something Simmons has done by my eye.

[Prez]

His career BPM (box plus/minus) is 0.3. I understand the illusory appeal of Caruso. He hustles, he dives for loose balls, he challenges shots, he wears a goofy headband. He also misses a healthy fraction of games because he's frequently unhealthy, and in the final analysis he moves no needles. Hard pass.

BPM is a garbage stat when it comes to evaluating impact.

And "challenges shots" is a pretty dismissive way to describe one of the best defensive guards in basketball, like at worst top 5 with a real argument for #1. He absolutely does move the needle and literally every single contender in the league would love to have him.

In his current three-year stint with the Bulls, they are 97-95 with an average Rel Drtg of 0.2 and one playoff appearance (first-round exit). If that ain't lack of impact it will have to do until the real thing comes along.

We really equating team record/success to individual impact now? Dame was coming off a 78-76 3-year stint with the Blazers before we got him and now we're 17-3 in our last 20 with him. Was it that he magically became a crazy impactful player this year, or is it that his Blazers teams just sucked and now he's on an elite roster?

Btw, while we are doing the team success = individual impact thing, maybe worth mentioning that a younger, worse version of Caruso was a 25 mpg key role player on a title team, and he's only gotten better since then.

[PG Graveyard]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

I'm irrationally high on Dre so nah. I'd trade MarJon/Pat/Portland 2nd for him in a heartbeat though.

So then we clearly have the assets to get Caruso if we wanted to and/if the Bulls liked Ajax and I think they should

[DingleJerry]

I probably hold off on that deal for Caruso. I know we're pure win now mode but he is a FA after this year and one has to be skeptical if they could/would resign him. With all the hype he's getting I'm guessing he's going to get an irrationally high contract. I guess we do clear Pat's money in that scenario but I'm still not sure owners are going to want to pay out 15-20 per year + tax for Caruso.

Meanwhile, we've been pining to hit on a cheap late pick since Brogdon and as of now Ajax seems their best bet to be that. I probably roll with Ajax and hope the problem/position is fixed for the next 7 years by him rather than just this one year with Caruso. I'd note I'm probably lower than most on Caruso since as someone else just said is not really a 2 way player. I'd hope we could find a D specialist for cheaper trade capital and contract. But I'm also not nearly on the Ajax hype train as most here either, though the last week has certainly got me moving in that direction

[LuessiT]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

In a nanosecond.

[skbucks1985]

I listened to Lowe's pod and sheesh, whoever brought up how hard they're fellating the Celtics wasn't kidding. If you were only listening to narratives you'd think they were 24-2.

I don't think there's a single contender without huge question marks right now.

They talked about the Bucks and the defense, primarily the perimeter defense being a structural flaw and I don't think a lot of us here would disagree with that assessment. But Boston's late game offense being a clear out for Tatum and Brown and let them take a long 2 or 3 with a hand in their face is not seen as a structural flaw in the same way. And in theory its not, in theory they could flip a switch and have ball movement and run real offensive sets late in games. But this has been the case basically their entire careers that it should now be clear that's not happening and that is a structural flaw with Boston.

[Daver]

I think KP plays tonight and Al sits. Should be a fun game (NBATV).

Other games of interest tonight are Orlando/Miami (we play Orlando tomorrow night, tough B2B for them).

Wolves/Sixers should be fun (NBATV).

Hornets/Pacers, should be an easy Pacers win at home but they've lost 4 in a row and are struggling. A home loss to the Hornets would be a big deal.

Clippers/Mavericks. Both 16-10. Clippers 9-1 their last 10.

For Cs fans sake i hope he does i read a littke snipit yesterday that he might need some rime off cause this pull he has hasnt gotten better.Doesnt play tonight holy lord horford on b2b nights being the only center this gsme could get ugly

[Daver]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

I'm irrationally high on Dre so nah. I'd trade MarJon/Pat/Portland 2nd for him in a heartbeat though.

So then we clearly have the assets to get Caruso if we wanted to and/if the Bulls liked Ajax and I think they should

We had the assets for dame than most people on this board thought not a chance in hell .....yes if horst wants caruso n thinks AJJ or marjon plus whatever is whats needed i have no doubt that horst wont jump at it.Hes aggressive he will improve this team

[MickeyDavis]

Would anyone trade Ajax/Pat for Caruso right now?

In a nanosecond.

I'm reluctant to trade AJJ but I don't think that gets it done anyway