Is Monty Williams the worst contract in the league?

[ArksNetsSince99]

i think the impact coaches in basketball (and subsequent blame) is vastly overstated among fans. you can set rotations and call plays but at the end of the day the players are making like 100 split-second decisions every play and then need the requisite skill/athleticism to execute them. one quote i love from SVG when he coached the pistons was when he was asked about a run the opposing team went on. his response, "yeah, put lebron back in the game. great adjustment".

i like to think of myself as a pretty good euchre player but if i'm dealt hands like 9-9-10-10-Q then i'm pretty much going to lose every time.

I still believe that Monty is a good coach

Former players when asked about Monty they have plenty of good things to say about him , I never heard anyone complaining about Monty

When players was asked about Nash , they went quiet or tried to change the subject, that itself tells you the story

[7r5ur]

Troy Weaver is the worst contract in the entire professional sports.

Wish we would have hired one of the coaches Weaver wanted, instead of the owner insisting on paying the guy that wanted no part in coaching the team.

[7r5ur]

i think the impact coaches in basketball (and subsequent blame) is vastly overstated among fans. you can set rotations and call plays but at the end of the day the players are making like 100 split-second decisions every play and then need the requisite skill/athleticism to execute them. one quote i love from SVG when he coached the pistons was when he was asked about a run the opposing team went on. his response, "yeah, put lebron back in the game. great adjustment".

i like to think of myself as a pretty good euchre player but if i'm dealt hands like 9-9-10-10-Q then i'm pretty much going to lose every time.

I still believe that Monty is a good coach

Former players when asked about Monty they have plenty of good things to say about him , I never heard anyone complaining about Monty

When players was asked about Nash , they went quiet or tried to change the subject, that itself tells you the story

Nice guy and good coach are two totally different things.

[firedavidkahn]

No, and even now, it was still a good hire. He wasn't brought in for his coaching abilities, however you rate them. He was brought in because the Pistons are arguably the worst franchise in the league in arguably the least desirable destination, and Monty is a pretty big name coach. They needed to overpay to get someone like him.

Think of it less as coaching hire and more as a celebrity endorsement.

Pretty much.

The contract of a coach is virtually immaterial and nonsensical to talk about the worst contract in the league (I'm assuming we are including players). A coaches salary doesn't go against the cap. It's just how much of a pain tolerance the owner has. Monty could be paid 1 million or 100 million and it wouldn't change anything.

[7r5ur]

This is Weaver’s mess, not Monty’s.

Roster was worse last year (without Cade) and yet the record was better and the players showed more improvement individually. There isn't really an excuse for every player on the roster to be regressing individually under Monty's system.

The terrible rotations, the inexplicable way he's handled Ivey, those horrendous lineups of no shooters/scorers around Cade for the first month and a half of the season. That's not on Weaver. That's on Monty.

[vege]

This is Weaver’s mess, not Monty’s.

Roster was worse last year (without Cade) and yet the record was better and the players showed more improvement individually. There isn't really an excuse for every player on the roster to be regressing individually under Monty's system.

Roster wasn't worse. Casey had more and better shooters. You guys continue to repeat that hoping that a lie said 1000 times will become true.

Your problem with Monty is because of Ivey. Ivey is bad. He is in the bottom 2 percentile as a defender in the league. He should be in the GLeague learning how to play.

[7r5ur]

This is Weaver’s mess, not Monty’s.

Roster was worse last year (without Cade) and yet the record was better and the players showed more improvement individually. There isn't really an excuse for every player on the roster to be regressing individually under Monty's system.

Roster wasn't worse. Casey had more and better shooters. You guys continue to repeat that hoping that a lie said 1000 times will become true.

Your problem with Monty is because of Ivey. Ivey is bad. He is in the bottom 2 percentile as a defender in the league. He should be in the GLeague learning how to play.

It was worse. Casey didn't have the ONE guy that could be the engine of the offense in Cade. You're gonna be on here talking about Monty not having Cory Joseph, McGruder, and Eugene Omorui lol. Casey was also tasked with the job of having the worst record in the league to go for Wemby and STILL they won way more games by accident than this team under Monty.

As for Ivey, he can put the ball in the hole. Something Killian, Ausar, Stewart, and Duren cannot. Playing ALL FOUR of them with Cade for most of the season is totally inexcusable. He's had Ivey, he's had Sasser. Both guys are real offensive threats to make some tiny effort to make this team a competent offense.

Ivey's defender doesn't just roam around and blitz Cade every play like Killian's. There's a reason Cade has been WAY better since Ivey started playing more next to him. As for defense, he was maybe the 4th worst defender in the starting lineup tonight

[vege]

As for defense, he was maybe the 4th worst defender in the starting lineup tonight

The competition is brutal there, between him Bojan and Bagley. It makes me want to pull my hair out watching those 3 play defense. Bojan at least is a God on offense, the other 2 are average at best and they're very negative players.

If Ivey refuses to learn how to play defense, and doesn't start giving a **** there, he will have the same career as LaVine. His team will be much better without him, despite of him putting the ball on the basket

[7r5ur]

As for defense, he was maybe the 4th worst defender in the starting lineup tonight

The competition is brutal there, between him Bojan and Bagley. It makes me want to pull my hair out watching those 3 play defense. Bojan at least is a God on offense, the other 2 are average at best and they're very negative players.

If Ivey refuses to learn how to play defense, and doesn't start giving a **** there, he will have the same career as LaVine. His team will be much better without him, despite of him putting the ball on the basket

Cade was worse defensively too, but you don't want to have that discussion lol. Ivey is legit busting his ass out there on defense.

[Bornstellar]

I'd take him over Pop in SA in a heartbeat

Oh come on…you have a top 3 coach of all time in NBA history and you’re not happy?

It's not 2014 anymore. I respect and appreciate Pop for all he has done for the franchise but he is way past his prime and the game has passed him by. Time for someone younger and hungrier, imo. I would bet there are many Spurs fans who agree

[vege]

As for defense, he was maybe the 4th worst defender in the starting lineup tonight

The competition is brutal there, between him Bojan and Bagley. It makes me want to pull my hair out watching those 3 play defense. Bojan at least is a God on offense, the other 2 are average at best and they're very negative players.

If Ivey refuses to learn how to play defense, and doesn't start giving a **** there, he will have the same career as LaVine. His team will be much better without him, despite of him putting the ball on the basket

Cade was worse defensively too, but you don't want to have that discussion lol

We alread had that discussion, and that's false.

[dockingsched]

lol no.

Even with any other coach this team would be terrible.

The question is what is he doing that any of the hundreds of assistant coaches and college coaches couldn’t do without having to make them one of the highest paid coaches in sports?

[7r5ur]

The competition is brutal there, between him Bojan and Bagley. It makes me want to pull my hair out watching those 3 play defense. Bojan at least is a God on offense, the other 2 are average at best and they're very negative players.

If Ivey refuses to learn how to play defense, and doesn't start giving a **** there, he will have the same career as LaVine. His team will be much better without him, despite of him putting the ball on the basket

Cade was worse defensively too, but you don't want to have that discussion lol

We alread had that discussion, and that's false.

Watch the replay and see how flat-footed Cade was. Watch him get back-doored for easy layups. Don't just seethe at Ivey the whole time, you can look at someone else too. You can blame his offensive load and fatigue or whatever, but it is what it is. Ivey has been overall better on defense over the last few weeks than Cade, and Cade gets the easy matchups every night.

And Cade's offensive load is somewhat of a valid excuse, but it's another thing Monty could have addressed by having another scorer/playmaker like Ivey on the floor so it's not just Cade playing 1-on-5 all game. Literally everyone but Monty and you can see this plain as day.

[KirkHinrich12]

Monty seems like a nice guy but he’s not that good of a coach. Never was. That contract was insane. I could see if it was for someone like Spoelstra.

[vege]

Cade was worse defensively too, but you don't want to have that discussion lol

We alread had that discussion, and that's false.

Watch the replay and see how flat-footed Cade was. Watch him get back-doored for easy layups. Don't just seethe at Ivey the whole time, you can look at someone else too. You can blame his offensive load and fatigue or whatever, but it is what it is. Ivey has been overall better on defense over the last few weeks than Cade, and Cade gets the easy matchups every night.

And his offensive load is somewhat of an excuse, but it's another thing Monty could have addressed by having another scorer/playmaker like Ivey on the floor so it's not just Cade playing 1-on-5 all game. Literally everyone but Monty and you can see this plain as day.

I don't make excuses for Cade. He's been bad on defense, Ivey is on a different level of bad. I alread showed you the numbers you refuse to see it, so you do you.

Ivey is on the bottom 2% as a defender. Cade is on the bottom 22%.

It's terrible to be worse than 3/4 of the league as a defender, but Ivey is as close as it get to be the worst defender in the league. Different level of bad. That's no excuse for Cade, he got to be better than that. Ivey shouldn't be in the NBA tho.

https://craftednba.com/players/cade-cunningham

https://craftednba.com/players/jaden-ivey

https://craftednba.com/players/bojan-bogdanovic

Bojan is actually the worst defender in the league FWIW.

[7r5ur]

We alread had that discussion, and that's false.

Watch the replay and see how flat-footed Cade was. Watch him get back-doored for easy layups. Don't just seethe at Ivey the whole time, you can look at someone else too. You can blame his offensive load and fatigue or whatever, but it is what it is. Ivey has been overall better on defense over the last few weeks than Cade, and Cade gets the easy matchups every night.

And his offensive load is somewhat of an excuse, but it's another thing Monty could have addressed by having another scorer/playmaker like Ivey on the floor so it's not just Cade playing 1-on-5 all game. Literally everyone but Monty and you can see this plain as day.

I don't make excuses for Cade. He's been bad on defense, Ivey is on a different level of bad. I alread showed you the numbers you refuse to see it, so you do you.

Ivey is on the bottom 2% as a defender. Cade is on the bottom 22%.

It's terrible to be worse than 3/4 of the league as a defender, but Ivey is as close as it get to be the worst defender in the league. Different level of bad. That's no excuse for Cade, he got to be better than that. Ivey shouldn't be in the NBA tho.

https://craftednba.com/players/cade-cunningham

https://craftednba.com/players/jaden-ivey

https://craftednba.com/players/bojan-bogdanovic

Bojan is actually the worst defender in the league FWIW.

Try looking up from the spreadsheet and watching the game next time. Ivey has gotten better on defense while Cade has gotten a lot worse even though he gets hidden on D every night. Yet you're on here like

((standardizedDDARKO / 2) + (standardizedDLEBRON x 2) + (standardizedDRaptor x 2) + (standardizedDBPM / 2) + (standardizedDPredator / 2) + (standardizedDLA3RAPM / 2) + 0) / 7.= Ivey Bad

...As if advanced stats like these (and defense in general) aren't highly influenced by team defense, matchups, lineups, etc. That same site says we've got 2 top-11 rim protectors playing next to Cade on this team that can't guard a traffic cone btw.

The fact that Monty ran out a lineup of 4 defenders with Cade for the majority of the season and hid him against the worst opposing player yet he's bottom 17% is pretty rough, not gonna lie. The fact that it's dropped 5% since you last looked kinda proves my point. Either Cade has gotten way worse as an individual defender since you last looked, or the fact that the team is getting crushed is skewing the stats.

[Goose egg]

Wonder how close he is to those incentives

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

i think the impact coaches in basketball (and subsequent blame) is vastly overstated among fans. you can set rotations and call plays but at the end of the day the players are making like 100 split-second decisions every play and then need the requisite skill/athleticism to execute them. one quote i love from SVG when he coached the pistons was when he was asked about a run the opposing team went on. his response, "yeah, put lebron back in the game. great adjustment".

i like to think of myself as a pretty good euchre player but if i'm dealt hands like 9-9-10-10-Q then i'm pretty much going to lose every time.

Your rationale is right and that's why it was so f-ing stupid to pay a guy that much when you might have to completely overhaul the roster.

That said, a coach should have an impact on the margins. Instead of 2-25, you would think they could steal a few games and be 8-19 or something just by instilling a culture and motivating guys to try hard in the slug of November and December. He has failed on even the lowest expectations I've had for an impact of coach to have.

[meekrab]

Bradley Beal is owed like 200 million and he doesn't even play basketball, at least Monty is doing his job.

[brutalitops]

I think there has to be massive turbulence between FO and what Monty wants to do. Compounds with a list which is lacking in some basic things it's just not a great place, Unless you had Spo I dont think anyones taking this Pistons team to win 30% of their games