PEAK ONLY: Embiid vs Durant

[parsnips33]

Simple Question

[AEnigma]

Regular season, Embiid, but he needs to carry it over to the postseason.

[TheProfessor]

I am taking 2012, and GSW Durant over anything Embiid has down to date.

[Wallace_Wallace]

I am taking 2012, and GSW Durant over anything Embiid has down to date.

Even before signing with GSW:
1st round -> conference finals -> finals -> 2nd round -> conference finals -> missed playoffs (injuries both WB/KD) -> conference finals

It'll hard to convince me to take Embiid over Durant.

[Cavsfansince84]

Regular season, Embiid, but he needs to carry it over to the postseason.

I think KD's 2014 rs is still better than anything Embiid has done. Maybe he exceeds it this year but like you said, he needs to probably at least make the finals while having a huge postseason to really be above KD's peak.

[ShotCreator]

Embiid is better on both ends. Not even a question to me.

The Durant standard is not a high one. He left a lot on the table as far as impacting the game other than volume scoring. Embiid style just disrupts things to an entirely different level.

Embiid’s had defensive playoff series on the Bill Russell caliber in the past. The raw talent gap is just there. He’s in a system with a coach who is maximizing him and he seems to be in career-best shape now.

Whether he translates it to the playoffs leaves the door open for a Durant argument but I don’t really feel prime KD in OKC was was that much more resilient than Joel. And he’s got a lower starting point compared to this year’s Joel in the RS anyway.


This year’s Joel seems to be a different thing. Different approach, different body, different scheme. I don’t think Durant could ever be a two-way cog of this magnitude and I have to believe Embiid will follow it up in the playoffs and blow away Durant’s best.

To be seen I guess, but talent is talent. I don’t think it’s a good assumption to think Embiid will randomly falter at this point, at this level.

[rk2023]

I think 14 KD and this Embiid as RS forces are comparable.. but we haven’t seen Embiid carry this over in the playoffs due to injury. Jury is out, but it’s hard to see Embiid surpassing him at this point Imo.

[1993Playoffs]

Regular season, Embiid, but he needs to carry it over to the postseason.

I think KD's 2014 rs is still better than anything Embiid has done. Maybe he exceeds it this year but like you said, he needs to probably at least make the finals while having a huge postseason to really be above KD's peak.

Just asking but what makes KDs 2014 rs better? Embiid has been insane these past few years in the RS and is a better defender

[rk2023]

Regular season, Embiid, but he needs to carry it over to the postseason.

I think KD's 2014 rs is still better than anything Embiid has done. Maybe he exceeds it this year but like you said, he needs to probably at least make the finals while having a huge postseason to really be above KD's peak.

Just asking but what makes KDs 2014 rs better? Embiid has been insane these past few years in the RS and is a better defender

Better defender sure, but I’d say KD has more scoring gravity and used it better in an RS context. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think either is exceptional at capitalizing off of their attention when teams gameplan & primarily in a playoff setting, but that and KD’s scoring being much more an in-era outlier make him a clearly better offensive player to me. We’ll see what Embiid does this playoffs though.

[Cavsfansince84]

Just asking but what makes KDs 2014 rs better? Embiid has been insane these past few years in the RS and is a better defender

Well I can acknowledge that there's a case for Joel over KD. KD was the more unstoppable offensive force imo(almost twice Joel's ts add) and Joel missed 16 games last year to 1 for KD in 2014. So that's part of it. The Sixers also won 54 games last year to 59 for Okc in 2014 even with Russ missing half the season. I'd also say that 2014 is the only season we got to see KD going all out as a #1 option during his prime. We sort of saw it in BKN but he missed so many games and it came after the injury so its not quite the same.

[Peregrine01]

Embiid's offensive game is so dependent on a friendly whistle that I just don't know how to place him. It's a big reason why he falls off a lot more in the playoffs when the whistle gets inevitably tighter. I have to take KD even though I'm not high on him compared to his contemporaries either.

[McBubbles]

Embiid's offensive game is so dependent on a friendly whistle that I just don't know how to place him. It's a big reason why he falls off a lot more in the playoffs when the whistle gets inevitably tighter. I have to take KD even though I'm not high on him compared to his contemporaries either.

People often say this a lot about players that rely on fouls but I don't think it's true. Embiid's Free Throw Rate is virtually identical in the regular season and post season. 55.5% to 55.8% respectively. I think his injury proneness is mainly what's held him back.

[Peregrine01]

Embiid's offensive game is so dependent on a friendly whistle that I just don't know how to place him. It's a big reason why he falls off a lot more in the playoffs when the whistle gets inevitably tighter. I have to take KD even though I'm not high on him compared to his contemporaries either.

People often say this a lot about players that rely on fouls but I don't think it's true. Embiid's Free Throw Rate is virtually identical in the regular season and post season. 55.5% to 55.8% respectively. I think his injury proneness is mainly what's held him back.

Having the same FTR against a defense that's allowed to be far more physical is a VASTLY different thing. Since Embiid's become an MVP candidate, his TS% has dropped off from ~63% to ~58% in the playoffs while his scoring plummets from ~46 PP100 to ~35 PP100. His FTA/100 go from ~17 to ~13 while his FGA/100 goes from ~29 to ~24.

So he's shooting fewer shots, getting to the line less and his efficiency takes a notable dip. When defenses are allowed to get more physical with a player they will take fewer shots, get to the line less and score less efficiently.

Now, I think Embiid still gets a friendly whistle in the playoffs but there's probably a bigger difference for a guy like him who has built his game off of whistle-baiting compared to a guy like Jokic for instance.

[Cavsfansince84]

Embiid's offensive game is so dependent on a friendly whistle that I just don't know how to place him. It's a big reason why he falls off a lot more in the playoffs when the whistle gets inevitably tighter. I have to take KD even though I'm not high on him compared to his contemporaries either.

People often say this a lot about players that rely on fouls but I don't think it's true. Embiid's Free Throw Rate is virtually identical in the regular season and post season. 55.5% to 55.8% respectively. I think his injury proneness is mainly what's held him back.

I think when things become more physical its up to the player to battle against it and realize he's the guy on the team who is expected to rise up. Not that guys don't learn from it. Dirk definitely did. Hakeem did. Joel just hasn't gotten to that point yet imo. Maybe this year he does and has a great playoffs. No one knows yet. I don't think its really an injury thing.

[OhayoKD]

purely era-relative there is a case for kd's 2014 as a match for any embid regular-season in large part due to the relative weakness of the league. That said, Embid is the better basketball talent and any sort of successful playoff translation of his rs play should give him a year better than 14 on either front.

Hopefully his body holds up and we see the full thing.

[ty 4191]

Let’s define peak as ages 23-28/29: Embiid and Durant played 388 and 389 games, respectively, those ages.

Stats Per 100 Possessions to negate differences in pace between years played:

Regular Season:

Durant:
38.5/10.4/6.4/1.5/1.5
.566 eFG%
.882 FT%
.635 TS%
28.6 PER
.283 WS/48
VORP: 40.5

Embiid Regular Season:
42.3/17.2/5.5/1.4/2.4
.537 eFG%
.827 FT%
.616 TS%
28.6 PER
.228 WS/48
28.7 VORP

Durant, Playoffs:
37.3/10/5.2/1.4/1.5
.530 eFG%
.855 FT%
TS%: .596
PER: 24.6
WS/48: .194
VORP: 8.0

Embiid, Playoffs:
34.7/15.7/4.0/1.1/2.5
.491 eFG%
.823 FT%
.579 TS%
21.6 PER
.134 WS/48
VORP: 2.6

Durant, of course, is also one of the greatest NBA Finals performers in history (15 games);

30.3/7.7/4.5 on .619 eFG%, 67.4 TS%, .448 3P%, .911 FT%. Only 2.7 TOV while averaging 39.3 MPG.

Yeah, this one isn’t close. It’s Durant by a landslide. All Embiid does better (barely) is score points and is better defensively.

Literally everything else? Durant smokes him. Especially in the playoffs….

[SportsGuru08]

Durant without question. The main reason is that he's been a better playoff performer in addition to being healthier. Well, until that achilles injury obviously

[ShotCreator]

Embiid is better on both ends. Not even a question to me.

The Durant standard is not a high one. He left a lot on the table as far as impacting the game other than volume scoring. Embiid style just disrupts things to an entirely different level.

Embiid’s had defensive playoff series on the Bill Russell caliber in the past. The raw talent gap is just there. He’s in a system with a coach who is maximizing him and he seems to be in career-best shape now.

Whether he translates it to the playoffs leaves the door open for a Durant argument but I don’t really feel prime KD in OKC was was that much more resilient than Joel. And he’s got a lower starting point compared to this year’s Joel in the RS anyway.


This year’s Joel seems to be a different thing. Different approach, different body, different scheme. I don’t think Durant could ever be a two-way cog of this magnitude and I have to believe Embiid will follow it up in the playoffs and blow away Durant’s best.

To be seen I guess, but talent is talent. I don’t think it’s a good assumption to think Embiid will randomly falter at this point, at this level.

Read on Twitter

Philly went from title contender to lottery NBA team without Embiid. Unbelievable first half of the season. I don't believe Durant ever touched this.

[The-Power]

Philly went from title contender to lottery NBA team without Embiid. Unbelievable first half of the season. I don't believe Durant ever touched this.

Embiid being injured, again, for an extended period is not exactly an argument in his favor when it comes to peak comparisons (which is usually about one full season at least).

[OhayoKD]

Philly went from title contender to lottery NBA team without Embiid. Unbelievable first half of the season. I don't believe Durant ever touched this.

Embiid being injured, again, for an extended period is not exactly an argument in his favor when it comes to peak comparisons (which is usually about one full season at least).

The point being made wasn't embid being injury prone, but about how much embid seems to improve the sixers.

2024 reflects very well, considering how they did without harden and how they're doing now over a sizable sample, on what embid offers in terms of value when he plays in the regular season. Does he play enough is another matter.

Durant has never at anypoint(including a shallow 15 roster) seen a team suffer this much without him and that is a point in embid's favor for anyone operating in good faith