Pick one of Bird or Duncan to add to this team

[70sFan]

Oscar’s hard stop pull up jumper had become standard basketball by 1977. But in the 1960s the guys defending Oscar looked unprepared to defend Oscar.

Oscar's pull-up was hard to stop because he was a gigantic 6'5 PG who handled the ball extremely well. There was no PG close to that size in 1977.

A lot of guards used hard pull-ups back then.

Jerry West did not look so impressive by 1980s standards but he sure stood out as a superior player in the 1960s.

Jerry West would be the best scoring guard in the league in the 1980s until Jordan reached his prime. There was no scoring guard in the 1980s comparable to him outside of Jordan and Gervin.

Walt Fraziers modern ball handling was impressive compared to 1973 guys but pretty normal by 1980s standards.

Again, Frazier looks better than 99% of 1980s guards skill-wise and size-wise.

1966 Havlicek was chucking deep mid range shots at 40% and acting like that was good basketball and it was good basketball for 1966.

Havlicek was inefficient in the 1960s and didn't become good scorer until he improved his game in the 1970s. Your argumentation is flawed here, because Havlicek was a better player in 1975 than in 1966.

Centers were bigger by the 1980s. Modern fans make fun of guys like Paul Mokeski for lack of agility and inability to shoot 3s. Modern fans think a center is no good if he can’t shoot 3s but I disagree. 1980s center were bigger than current centers. 1960s centers other then a few of were smaller than 1980s centers and not better shooters or more agile or better athletes than guys like Paul Mokeski.

The difference in size is minimal.
Someone like Phil Jordon wasn't less skilled than Paul Mokeski.

Most players can hit an open 3 now and that is the biggest change from the 1980s. Half the teams now have a player who can volume shoot 3s while coming off screens or picks. I don’t remember a player before Reggie Miller that could volume shoot 3s while coming off screens or picks.

No, it's not a matter of open 3 shooting. Modern roleplayers can take and make pull-up threes from way outside without any problems. The difference in 3P shooting skills is gigantic.

Modern 3 point shooting is a huge change that changed the look of the game. But the improvement in shooting from 1962 to 1982 while not changing the look off the game was a huge change.

I don't think the shooting difference is anywhere near as big as between 1982 and 2023. I don't think you can argue otherwise in fact.

Just from shooting percentage alone an average 1980s team would blow out an average 1960s team if they played each other. Then the 1980s team are bigger and faster and more skilled at playground moves and defense of playground moves. I am guessing 1980s effort waa less than 1960s effort for regular season games but I have seen very few 1960s regular season games.

Just from shooting percentage alone, the difference between 2020s and 1980s teams is significantly larger, especially once you factor improvements in defensive schemes.

My opinion is solidly that the NBA improvement in ability speed and size from 1962 to 1982 was greater than the improvement from 1982 to 2022.

In speed? Are you serious?
1980s is full of slow plodding teams with huge stiff frontcourts. 1960s teams usually played faster lineups and they focused on speed more than 1980s teams. I don't see a big athleticism jump from the 1960s to the 1980s.

[homecourtloss]

If anything that would make you more bias.

Also, are you saying you understood the same amount about basketball 40 years ago as you do today?

Best way to understand basketball before your birth is to watch a lot of game film.

Defense never succeeds in highlight films.

I tried to watch game film for Russell, Wilt and Oscar. Watching a variety of game film for Bird is easier.

My attitude towards 60s ball is like young people’s attitudes towards 80s ball. But I believe the players improved more between 1965 and 1982 than they did between 1982 and now. 1980s ball players were not inferior athletes or inferior dribblers.

The change in 3 point shooting has been huge. 1980s players had to know how to play against a packed in defense. Ban the 3 point shot and play current teams against 1980s teams with know 3 point shot and no adjustment time for modern players and the 1980s teams will beat the modern teams because 1980s teams know how to play against packed in defenses playing uncalled rotating zone defenses. Modern players are not used to dealing with so many help defenders. College ball still has packed in defenses more than pro ball because there are more guys in college that can’t hit 3s.

Every generation thinks their generation revolutionized basketball and sex. News kids, if your parents did not know how to have sex you would not have been born. And you don’t really need a cellphone.

L O L

It’s like trying to purposefully say the exact opposite of what is reality and being successful

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Mid range vs a packed defense in the 1980s was a tougher shot than mid range today with a spaced out floor. Drives and post moves were also tougher shots without modern 3 point shot created spacing.

Non 3 point shooting percentage should have gone up more than it did because of how much easier 3 point shooting spacing made the other shots.

I think the shooting percentages of shots other than 3 point shots improved more from 2960s to 1980s than 1980s to now.

Basketball stayed the same shape. Top speed relative to the court (how my brain perceives speed) imoroved more 1960s to 1980s than 1980s to now. 1980s was a lot slower in the slowest 1/3 of players than the slowest 1/3 of players now. 1980s were faster in the middle 1/3 of players than the 1960s.


Old Chris Ford on the 1980s Celtics looked slow but the Celtics fast break including Ford was fast because it was a well executed fast break.

1960s had to fast break all the time because their half court offense was so bad. A bad chucking half break shot was the same percentage as a good half court shot.

The 1960s players were slower than 1980s players but the 1960s half breaking play style was a faster style of basketball. You seem to have mistook the fast style of play for fast players.


1n 1966 Havilicek was the Celtics bail out guy. 1st choice was the fast break. 2nd choice was Sam jones. If Bill Russel found himself open Russel was 2nd choice but Sam Jones had to make himself open with he skills because Sam Jones was the main half court guy.

If Sam Jones ran out of time then pass the ball to Havlicek running around open and barely defended at deep mid range. Havlicek shot 2nd most shots and was always open because he tired out his defender and he should those deep mid range shots so poorly that they were barely worth defending unless the shot clock was running out.

1 don’t know how Havlicek improved his shooting from about 40% to about 44% in 1974.

44%, was bad shooting in the 1980s. 44% was fine in 1979 -1980 in the Iverson like 1st option guy role that stirs the drink and gets shots for his teammate by collapsing the defense on himself.