NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[Savage_Mode]

I still think the Jokic meat riders and Embiid haters should be made fun of constantly but I’d still put Jokic at #1 currently.
1. Jokic
2. Tatum
3. Embiid

Thankfully the majority of the actual voters have a different opinion than you. They just barely beat the Charlotte Hornet. Jokic had 18/9/10

A steller game for someone like Sengun, Sabonis, etc. This was a below par game for Jokic when you even consider his numbers at the start of the season, or last year.

There is homerism, and then there are levels like this. If Embiid was performing worse than last year, I wouldn't be saying he's MVP. He' performing better than last year, where he was the MVP, and Jokic's numbers are down from last year, particularly in efficiency.

Also, credibility of yours has been lost when you say Tatum is number 2. Sounds like you just don't like Embiid. LOL

Jokic is the best player on the defending champs. Best player in the world. Best winner. He’s obviously not going all out right now. Tatum is the best player on the team with leagues best record. Nothing wrong with putting him 2nd.

[eyeatoma]

Thankfully the majority of the actual voters have a different opinion than you. They just barely beat the Charlotte Hornet. Jokic had 18/9/10

A steller game for someone like Sengun, Sabonis, etc. This was a below par game for Jokic when you even consider his numbers at the start of the season, or last year.

There is homerism, and then there are levels like this. If Embiid was performing worse than last year, I wouldn't be saying he's MVP. He' performing better than last year, where he was the MVP, and Jokic's numbers are down from last year, particularly in efficiency.

Also, credibility of yours has been lost when you say Tatum is number 2. Sounds like you just don't like Embiid. LOL

Recently we were told that Embiid’s 42/15/3 (18/23 FG) in 30 minutes with +36 on/off against the Hornets in Charlotte was not impressive because anybody can do it. Such games don’t count. They sound quite ridiculous at times, tbh.

If the measure of the MVP is who can perform best against the Pistons, Wizards, and Hornets, Embiid’s got it on LOCK, no question.

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up by dropping 51 on Gobert's (the probable dpoy's) head.

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[iggymcfrack]

Recently we were told that Embiid’s 42/15/3 (18/23 FG) in 30 minutes with +36 on/off against the Hornets in Charlotte was not impressive because anybody can do it. Such games don’t count. They sound quite ridiculous at times, tbh.

If the measure of the MVP is who can perform best against the Pistons, Wizards, and Hornets, Embiid’s got it on LOCK, no question.

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up but drop 51 on Gobert's (the probable) dpoy's head.

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Hey, I gave him credit for that. I’m just saying that Embiid clearly dominates bad teams better than anyone in the league. The only question is about play against better teams and that’s why the race is close.

[eyeatoma]

I still think the Jokic meat riders and Embiid haters should be made fun of constantly but I’d still put Jokic at #1 currently.
1. Jokic
2. Tatum
3. Embiid

Thankfully the majority of the actual voters have a different opinion than you. They just barely beat the Charlotte Hornet. Jokic had 18/9/10

A steller game for someone like Sengun, Sabonis, etc. This was a below par game for Jokic when you even consider his numbers at the start of the season, or last year.

There is homerism, and then there are levels like this. If Embiid was performing worse than last year, I wouldn't be saying he's MVP. He' performing better than last year, where he was the MVP, and Jokic's numbers are down from last year, particularly in efficiency.

Also, credibility of yours has been lost when you say Tatum is number 2. Sounds like you just don't like Embiid. LOL

Jokic is the best player on the defending champs. Best player in the world. Best winner. He’s obviously not going all out right now. Tatum is the best player on the team with leagues best record. Nothing wrong with putting him 2nd.

There is when he's not even cracking 30 and is having a down year compared to last. The Celtics are as close to a super team there is so infact he needs to be better than last year and all the candidates to show how he is a worthy MVP, irregardless of how stacked his team is.

I listen to a bunch of top podcasts and none of them think Tatum is even worthy of the top 5.

It's Embiid, Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Sga. Apart from Embiid all the other 4 can be swapped. Tatum is not on their planet.

Finally is we're talking record the Sixers are within striking distance of 1st. It's not some huge gap.

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[eyeatoma]

If the measure of the MVP is who can perform best against the Pistons, Wizards, and Hornets, Embiid’s got it on LOCK, no question.

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up but drop 51 on Gobert's (the probable) dpoy's head.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Hey, I have him credit for that. I’m just saying that Embiid clearly dominates bad teams better than anyone in the league. The only question is about play against better teams and that’s why the race is close.

That's what you're supposed to do.

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[turnaroundJ]

"I'm doing all of these things defensively … I should be making an All-Defensive team too. I don't care, but every year it's something. And when you add analytics into it, which don't make sense. You can talk about analytics all you want. When you got some guys in the league, the eye test tells you that they're not good defensively, but analytics tell you they're the best defenders." says Joel Embiid before he goes on to blow a 3-2 lead over Tatum and the Celtics.

"People have been talking about who has the most pressure to win. People want to mention me, I'm not at the top of that list. I'm not a two-time MVP, I've never made first team All-NBA, I've never won anything. So why is there pressure on me to do something when there are guys that have won two MVPs, a bunch of MVPs and haven't done anything either?" says Embiid as he goes on to go home in the 1st or 2nd round for the 6th consecutive season.

[eyeatoma]

"I'm doing all of these things defensively … I should be making an All-Defensive team too. I don't care, but every year it's something. And when you add analytics into it, which don't make sense. You can talk about analytics all you want. When you got some guys in the league, the eye test tells you that they're not good defensively, but analytics tell you they're the best defenders." says Joel Embiid before he goes on to blow a 3-2 lead over Tatum and the Celtics.

"People have been talking about who has the most pressure to win. People want to mention me, I'm not at the top of that list. I'm not a two-time MVP, I've never made first team All-NBA, I've never won anything. So why is there pressure on me to do something when there are guys that have won two MVPs, a bunch of MVPs and haven't done anything either?" says Embiid as he goes on to go home in the 1st or 2nd round for the 6th consecutive season.

Why you taking a quote from last year? What's your point?

Do you just forget that he gets a significant injury each playoff? Do you forget that he had career chokers in Doc, and Harden by his side along with Ben Simmons? Only had someone good in Jimmy and it took one of the most miraculousl shots of all time to eliminate them but that's his fault?

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[turnaroundJ]

"I'm doing all of these things defensively … I should be making an All-Defensive team too. I don't care, but every year it's something. And when you add analytics into it, which don't make sense. You can talk about analytics all you want. When you got some guys in the league, the eye test tells you that they're not good defensively, but analytics tell you they're the best defenders." says Joel Embiid before he goes on to blow a 3-2 lead over Tatum and the Celtics.

"People have been talking about who has the most pressure to win. People want to mention me, I'm not at the top of that list. I'm not a two-time MVP, I've never made first team All-NBA, I've never won anything. So why is there pressure on me to do something when there are guys that have won two MVPs, a bunch of MVPs and haven't done anything either?" says Embiid as he goes on to go home in the 1st or 2nd round for the 6th consecutive season.

Why you taking a quote from last year? What's your point?

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last year he helped push a narrative that won him an mvp. this year he might be hit with that same narrative despite having a worthy season. his defense didn't do anything in the playoffs and he deflected all the winning pressure to jokic last year. now he will be in that exact spot.

[Drakeem]

Embiid deserves it this year but IMO didn't deserve it last year so I don't mind someone getting it if it's close. Creates more drama.

[Cubbies2120]

Recently we were told that Embiid’s 42/15/3 (18/23 FG) in 30 minutes with +36 on/off against the Hornets in Charlotte was not impressive because anybody can do it. Such games don’t count. They sound quite ridiculous at times, tbh.

If the measure of the MVP is who can perform best against the Pistons, Wizards, and Hornets, Embiid’s got it on LOCK, no question.

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up by dropping 51 on Gobert's (the probable dpoy's) head.

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Is a 1 game sample > a 7 game sample?

If so, I'd like to argue that Jokic is a better scorer than Embiid, because you know, 53 points in the playoffs (1 game sample) ?

[Cubbies2120]

"I'm doing all of these things defensively … I should be making an All-Defensive team too. I don't care, but every year it's something. And when you add analytics into it, which don't make sense. You can talk about analytics all you want. When you got some guys in the league, the eye test tells you that they're not good defensively, but analytics tell you they're the best defenders." says Joel Embiid before he goes on to blow a 3-2 lead over Tatum and the Celtics.

"People have been talking about who has the most pressure to win. People want to mention me, I'm not at the top of that list. I'm not a two-time MVP, I've never made first team All-NBA, I've never won anything. So why is there pressure on me to do something when there are guys that have won two MVPs, a bunch of MVPs and haven't done anything either?" says Embiid as he goes on to go home in the 1st or 2nd round for the 6th consecutive season.

Why you taking a quote from last year? What's your point?

Do you just forget that he gets a significant injury each playoff? Do you forget that he had career chokers in Doc, and Harden by his side along with Ben Simmons? Only had someone good in Jimmy and it took one of the most miraculousl shots of all time to eliminate them but that's his fault?

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Career chokers like Harden...
If Harden is a career choker, what is Embiid?

Also Harden won game 1 vs. the Celtics WITHOUT Embiid.
Harden dropped a CAREER PLAYOFF HIGH lol.

Two wins vs. the Celtics you can go ahead and credit Harden with...give one to Embiid...

This is starting to become one of those situations where your friend is dating a bunch of people over a few year period, your friend breaks up with each and tells you "Yeah, they were the problem man"...at some point you gotta start examining WHO the real problem is

[Cubbies2120]

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up but drop 51 on Gobert's (the probable) dpoy's head.

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Hey, I have him credit for that. I’m just saying that Embiid clearly dominates bad teams better than anyone in the league. The only question is about play against better teams and that’s why the race is close.

That's what you're supposed to do.

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The problem here is you're getting all your dominant performances out of the way against trash teams early.

You YOURSELF have admitted in the past that MVP views have changed towards end of season [most important part of the season]. If he's facing tough teams, and starting to fall off a bit, that's not good for his MVP outlook, right?

Or is this year the year where voters will magically say "Ehh, screw the end of the year, let's look at the first 30 games!"?

Now, I will say, if Embiid keeps these numbers up til the end of the season, he'd have my vote for MVP. You can quote this

[Cubbies2120]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

Update for this graphic:
Celtics 1st toughest schedule in the league
Nuggets 8th toughest schedule in the league
Sixers 28th toughest schedule in the league
Bucks 30th toughest schedule in the league

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

[Hussien Fatal]

If the measure of the MVP is who can perform best against the Pistons, Wizards, and Hornets, Embiid’s got it on LOCK, no question.

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up but drop 51 on Gobert's (the probable) dpoy's head.

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Hey, I gave him credit for that. I’m just saying that Embiid clearly dominates bad teams better than anyone in the league. The only question is about play against better teams and that’s why the race is close.

Embiid didn’t even play the 4th quarter for any of those games. If he did he would be averaging 37-38ppg instead of 35ppg. Also Embiid just dropped 51 on the T-wolves so I’m not sure his play against better teams is in question.

Also the MVP race isn’t close! The 1st straw poll Embiid has 63 1st place votes compared to the runner up Jokic who had 21 1st place votes. Not close.

[Roger Murdock]

This season just makes last years MVP award worse

Embiid had an amazing season but a worse year than Jokic, and he only won because ‘Jokic didn’t deserve a third because he’s not been successful enough’.

It was the worst and least deserved MVP award since Mo Vaughn in the 90s with Baseball. A month after the MVP was handed out everyone was clowning it, 76ers fans realized how wrong they were, etc.

No reasonable person would have given MVP to a Embiid last year with hindsight, even the most delusional 76ers fans realized it was wrong after the post season. The primary MVP narrative wasn’t merit but ‘justice’

This year Embiid deserves MVP thus far. But the reasons to not vote for Jokic last year apply to a Embiid this year 100-fold

This years MVP race is basically a ‘do two wrongs make a right?’

If we apply last seasons logic, Jokic wins. If we actually pick who deserves MVP, Embiid will probably win. But it will be absurd if Embiid has two MVPs when he’s one of the worst post season players in NBA history, especially since he won his first because of an unfair double standard.

[Special_Puppy]

It was the worst and least deserved MVP award since Mo Vaughn in the 90s with Baseball. A month after the MVP was handed out everyone was clowning it, 76ers fans realized how wrong they were, etc.

This seems pretty extreme. At least Embiid was the second-best player in the league in 2022-23 (at least in the regular season). Was Derrick Rose even a top 5 player in the 2010-11 season in hindsight?

[kuclas]

This season just makes last years MVP award worse

Embiid had an amazing season but a worse year than Jokic, and he only won because ‘Jokic didn’t deserve a third because he’s not been successful enough’.

It was the worst and least deserved MVP award since Mo Vaughn in the 90s with Baseball. A month after the MVP was handed out everyone was clowning it, 76ers fans realized how wrong they were, etc.

No reasonable person would have given MVP to a Embiid last year with hindsight, even the most delusional 76ers fans realized it was wrong after the post season. The primary MVP narrative wasn’t merit but ‘justice’

This year Embiid deserves MVP thus far. But the reasons to not vote for Jokic last year apply to a Embiid this year 100-fold

This years MVP race is basically a ‘do two wrongs make a right?’

If we apply last seasons logic, Jokic wins. If we actually pick who deserves MVP, Embiid will probably win. But it will be absurd if Embiid has two MVPs when he’s one of the worst post season players in NBA history, especially since he won his first because of an unfair double standard.

While I agree Jokic “deserved the mvp” 2022-23 more than Embiid. Same can be said with 2021-22 when Jokic team was 6th with a bunch of injuries including Jamal Murray. But Embiid had to deal with 2/3 of the season with the Ben Simmons fiasco so didn’t have his second best player either for a significant time

But calling Embiid the worse mvp is pretty far fetch.

As for post season. Have you seen Embiid played when he’s healthy in the post season. He’s been pretty dominant when healthy. Unfortunately the last 3 post seasons. he’s missed games and come back 70-80% of himself. Even Jayson Tatum all hobbled in game 7 of Miami series this past spring blamed his injury for his poor play.

Injuries happen. And it can impact star players performance. But to say Embiid sucks in players without the contexts of knee injuries that affect his lift as the game goes on or his lateral movement. Those are injuries that regular season players take off one month to health. Not one week.

[Cubbies2120]

Have you seen Embiid played when he’s healthy in the post season. He’s been pretty dominant when healthy. Unfortunately the last 3 post seasons. he’s missed games and come back 70-80% of himself. Even Jayson Tatum all hobbled in game 7 of Miami series this past spring blamed his injury for his poor play.

Injuries happen. And it can impact star players performance. But to say Embiid sucks in players without the contexts of knee injuries that affect his lift as the game goes on or his lateral movement. Those are injuries that regular season players take off one month to health. Not one week.

Do you agree that injury prone-ness is out of a players control (due to physical makeup)? I do. Some players have their weaknesses (NOT THEIR FAULT). You take the great (amazing offense, defense) with the bad (injury proneness). You do the same thing with Jokic - take the great (Amazing offense & playmaking, above average defense) with the bad (Inability to guard Steph Curry & Jordan Poole on the perimeter due to slow foot speed...something out of his control).

Arguing "If Embiid wasn't injured..." is like arguing "If Jokic wasn't slow footed..."

You are arguing hypotheticals.

[Cubbies2120]

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up but drop 51 on Gobert's (the probable) dpoy's head.

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Hey, I gave him credit for that. I’m just saying that Embiid clearly dominates bad teams better than anyone in the league. The only question is about play against better teams and that’s why the race is close.

Embiid didn’t even play the 4th quarter for any of those games. If he did he would be averaging 37-38ppg instead of 35ppg. Also Embiid just dropped 51 on the T-wolves so I’m not sure his play against better teams is in question.

He is averaging the most minutes per game of his career. You somehow seem to think he'd be playing those 4th quarter minutes in ADDITION to his heavy load in the 3rd quarter lol. And I assume you think his efficiency wouldn't drop, despite SEASONS of evidence where the more minutes he plays, the worse his efficiency is (Like most people).

He is INCAPABLE of averaging 40 minutes a game my guy. Even in the playoffs, he has NEVER averaged 40 minutes a game. Fatboy Jokic has (40 mins a game last playoffs).

Get this "He didn't play 4th quarter" out of your head - he's playing heavier minutes earlier in the game. It averages out. He's not MAGICALLY gonna play an additional 6+ minutes without serious consequences.

[Cubbies2120]

You play who is on deck the narrative that he was dodging good teams was ridiculous. He shut all the haters up but drop 51 on Gobert's (the probable) dpoy's head.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Hey, I gave him credit for that. I’m just saying that Embiid clearly dominates bad teams better than anyone in the league. The only question is about play against better teams and that’s why the race is close.

Also the MVP race isn’t close! The 1st straw poll Embiid has 63 1st place votes compared to the runner up Jokic who had 21 1st place votes. Not close.

Ahh the good old straw poll

I remember after Jokic's 2nd MVP season, the same straw poll in December...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35253462/nba-mvp-straw-poll-luka-giannis-tatum-100-league-insiders-make-their-picks

Jokic had ONE single '1st place' vote. Embiid had 0. They finished #1 and #2 in voting. Lol.

If that's your measure of MVP vote being close...