How Is LeBron Playing At Such A High Level? Unreal...

[SpreeChokeJob]

But why can’t everyone do it then is what I wonder. I’m supposed to belive it’s just one guy juiced up and he’s not helping gabe Vincent recover, or Anthony Davis? Why isn’t there some doctor running around selling the hooper cocktail? The only answer I can think of is that he’s been doing it longer than everyone else, or is like the captain America serum and it’s only works with his unique genetic profile.

It’s never just one guy. Look at cycling or baseball or football or WWE. I am inclined to believe there are some super treatments out there for older guys though because how the hell is the rock bigger and leaner now than when he was in the WWE and DEFINITELY taking sterioids?

Not sure whether the other guys are on the same stuff he’s on. His name has been mentioned with BioGenesis along with some other high profile athletes. It would be nice to have a sports reporter investigate that world and report back about the laboratories and talk to their cocktail makers because it’s clear it is part of the sports world from cycling, gymnastics, sprinting, baseball. It does seem it gives an unfair advantage to those on it vs those off it.

Tatum and embiid are just like, “no I will not have the drugs that allow bron to be so good at 40” ? Or the drug guys don’t wanna make 8 figures treating them? Lillard getting fried by Brunson, he not trying to get some bron drugs? Everybody got money, if it’s a drug thing, it has to be something that it’s just him getting, which makes no sense from anyone’s perspective

Maybe those young guys don’t need it yet or some just don’t want to take it because it’s not worth the hassle of somebody having something over their heads. It’s different for Lebron because he’s the face of the league, so he has protection. And anyways the boost varies as seen from MLB, Maguire started hitting home runs and Bonds went on it because he was jealous, so each player’s reason for using it is different. But there’s no denying the unfair advantage it gives to a player. Lance Armstrong got boosts in stamina and strength. Sprinters gain more speed. The difference in strength from Bonds pre medication vs after medication is substantial.

[Iwasawitness]

I’ll take Lebron’s superior peak, better all around play and longevity over Jordan’s team accomplishments and his DPOY (which LeBron should have got in 2013)

Born in 1990 and don't even like Lebron and agree. Lebron's longevity is freaking wild. To be this dominant for so long is truly absurd. Give me that kind of lifelong production over anything else.

Ehh missing the playoffs entirely does go against dominant for so long.

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

LeBron willingly joined a rebuilding team and they were still in playoff contention before injuries hampered it.

No one denies the Bulls dominance. You really think LeBron doesn’t do the same in that era with a top 20-30 player with him who fits his skills perfectly, a good supporting cast and competent ownership? Against competition that wasn’t levels above his no less? How well do you think Jordan does going to different teams with different systems? Can you imagine Jordan without the triangle on the same team as Kyrie Irving? I don’t need to explain why that would be a disaster.

[Lockdown504090]

Not sure whether the other guys are on the same stuff he’s on. His name has been mentioned with BioGenesis along with some other high profile athletes. It would be nice to have a sports reporter investigate that world and report back about the laboratories and talk to their cocktail makers because it’s clear it is part of the sports world from cycling, gymnastics, sprinting, baseball. It does seem it gives an unfair advantage to those on it vs those off it.

Tatum and embiid are just like, “no I will not have the drugs that allow bron to be so good at 40” ? Or the drug guys don’t wanna make 8 figures treating them? Lillard getting fried by Brunson, he not trying to get some bron drugs? Everybody got money, if it’s a drug thing, it has to be something that it’s just him getting, which makes no sense from anyone’s perspective

Maybe those young guys don’t need it yet or some just don’t want to take it because it’s not worth the hassle of somebody having something over their heads. It’s different for Lebron because he’s the face of the league, so he has protection. And anyways the boost varies as seen from MLB, Maguire started hitting home runs and Bonds went on it because he was jealous, so each player’s reason for using it is different. But there’s no denying the unfair advantage it gives to a player. Lance Armstrong got boosts in stamina and strength. Sprinters gain more speed. The difference in strength from Bonds pre medication vs after medication is substantial.

You don’t think embiid could use stamina extra lift and injury recovery? I’m the examples you refer to, we saw sport wide performance gains. In basketball we have some old guys playing decent ball, but not like this.

Cp wil do anything to win, your theory is that he’s not asking him for help because the nba that never catches anyone will catch him? It seems more likely that he’s a genetic outlier than he just has gamma radiation turning him into the Incredible Hulk and he’s not telling nobody. Second of all, lebron is far too stupid to get away with it

[mademan]

Not sure whether the other guys are on the same stuff he’s on. His name has been mentioned with BioGenesis along with some other high profile athletes. It would be nice to have a sports reporter investigate that world and report back about the laboratories and talk to their cocktail makers because it’s clear it is part of the sports world from cycling, gymnastics, sprinting, baseball. It does seem it gives an unfair advantage to those on it vs those off it.

Tatum and embiid are just like, “no I will not have the drugs that allow bron to be so good at 40” ? Or the drug guys don’t wanna make 8 figures treating them? Lillard getting fried by Brunson, he not trying to get some bron drugs? Everybody got money, if it’s a drug thing, it has to be something that it’s just him getting, which makes no sense from anyone’s perspective

Maybe those young guys don’t need it yet or some just don’t want to take it because it’s not worth the hassle of somebody having something over their heads. It’s different for Lebron because he’s the face of the league, so he has protection. And anyways the boost varies as seen from MLB, Maguire started hitting home runs and Bonds went on it because he was jealous, so each player’s reason for using it is different. But there’s no denying the unfair advantage it gives to a player. Lance Armstrong got boosts in stamina and strength. Sprinters gain more speed. The difference in strength from Bonds pre medication vs after medication is substantial.

You legit think Lebron has access to some secret stuff nobody else does? Or that he's the only one using it? It's just such a ludicrous idea

[Roy T]

He could pretty much be the only guy being able to afford it.

[OdomFan]

I’ll take Lebron’s superior peak, better all around play and longevity over Jordan’s team accomplishments and his DPOY (which LeBron should have got in 2013)

Yeah well Ill take the guy that helped his best teammate develop into a star next to him rather then jumping some where else to play with already established stars.

Ill take the guy who accepted a system brought in by a rookie coach along with said systems owner, and helped that coach go on to be arguably the greatest coach of all time. Mr Phil Jackson.

Lebron does all these things on the court. Rebounding, passing, scoring, and playing inconsistent defense along the way. but how does that help the rest of the team have much of an identity? Its all about him, and thats why those teams fall apart when he left. with MJ the triangle offense was strong enough to keep that team winning without him. thats how a team should be.

This argument is all over the place

I don't see how its very difficult to understand.

Michael as leader of the Bulls accepted the triangle offense which is what helped him become a better leader and player. Helping Phil become one of the greatest coaches of all time because of the success the men all accomplished together from 1989 to 1998.

In the mids of those years. MJ and the coaching staff all played a part in helping Pippen develop into a star player next to Michael.

On the other side of things all of Lebrons coaches centered the whole system around giving him the ball. Making it all about him. So when Lebron left the Cavs they were left scratching their heads about what to do next.

With the Bulls. when MJ retired in 1993. They still had that same triangle offense system in place as well as Pippen and other members of that championship squad running that system. There for they continued to play well.

If you can't get it then thats on you.

[Iwasawitness]

Yeah well Ill take the guy that helped his best teammate develop into a star next to him rather then jumping some where else to play with already established stars.

Ill take the guy who accepted a system brought in by a rookie coach along with said systems owner, and helped that coach go on to be arguably the greatest coach of all time. Mr Phil Jackson.

Lebron does all these things on the court. Rebounding, passing, scoring, and playing inconsistent defense along the way. but how does that help the rest of the team have much of an identity? Its all about him, and thats why those teams fall apart when he left. with MJ the triangle offense was strong enough to keep that team winning without him. thats how a team should be.

This argument is all over the place

I don't see how its very difficult to understand.

Michael as leader of the Bulls accepted the triangle offense which is what helped him become a better leader and player. Helping Phil become one of the greatest coaches of all time because of the success the men all accomplished together from 1989 to 1998.

In the mids of those years. MJ and the coaching staff all played a part in helping Pippen develop into a star player next to Michael.

On the other side of things all of Lebrons coaches centered the whole system around giving him the ball. Making it all about him. So when Lebron left the Cavs they were left scratching their heads about what to do next.

With the Bulls. when MJ retired in 1993. They still had that same triangle offense system in place as well as Pippen and other members of that championship squad running that system. There for they continued to play well.

If you can't get it then thats on you.

I don’t think you’re realizing this but you’re making it seem like LeBron is superior with this argument.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Tatum and embiid are just like, “no I will not have the drugs that allow bron to be so good at 40” ? Or the drug guys don’t wanna make 8 figures treating them? Lillard getting fried by Brunson, he not trying to get some bron drugs? Everybody got money, if it’s a drug thing, it has to be something that it’s just him getting, which makes no sense from anyone’s perspective

Maybe those young guys don’t need it yet or some just don’t want to take it because it’s not worth the hassle of somebody having something over their heads. It’s different for Lebron because he’s the face of the league, so he has protection. And anyways the boost varies as seen from MLB, Maguire started hitting home runs and Bonds went on it because he was jealous, so each player’s reason for using it is different. But there’s no denying the unfair advantage it gives to a player. Lance Armstrong got boosts in stamina and strength. Sprinters gain more speed. The difference in strength from Bonds pre medication vs after medication is substantial.

You don’t think embiid could use stamina extra lift and injury recovery? I’m the examples you refer to, we saw sport wide performance gains. In basketball we have some old guys playing decent ball, but not like this.

Cp wil do anything to win, your theory is that he’s not asking him for help because the nba that never catches anyone will catch him? It seems more likely that he’s a genetic outlier than he just has gamma radiation turning him into the Incredible Hulk and he’s not telling nobody. Second of all, lebron is far too stupid to get away with it

Without help which was my original point of Kerr using Vioxx, these old guys wouldn’t even be able to play decent ball.

[OdomFan]

Yeah well Ill take the guy that helped his best teammate develop into a star next to him rather then jumping some where else to play with already established stars.

Ill take the guy who accepted a system brought in by a rookie coach along with said systems owner, and helped that coach go on to be arguably the greatest coach of all time. Mr Phil Jackson.

Lebron does all these things on the court. Rebounding, passing, scoring, and playing inconsistent defense along the way. but how does that help the rest of the team have much of an identity? Its all about him, and thats why those teams fall apart when he left. with MJ the triangle offense was strong enough to keep that team winning without him. thats how a team should be.

This argument is all over the place

Yeah uh, I didn’t even really bother replying to that one, and I usually reply to any Jordan> LeBron argument. It’s hard to take retorts like these seriously.

Yeah well it's pretty hard to take someone seriously who doesn't seem to understand the basic differences between what a shooting guard does for their team vs a point forward like Lebron James.

or the difference between 1 player having the system all about what they're going to do with the ball vs the other guy (MJ) accepting a real team system that brought the best out of him as well as everyone around him to make that 90s Bulls way of play as good as it became. Moving on now.

[OdomFan]

This argument is all over the place

I don't see how its very difficult to understand.

Michael as leader of the Bulls accepted the triangle offense which is what helped him become a better leader and player. Helping Phil become one of the greatest coaches of all time because of the success the men all accomplished together from 1989 to 1998.

In the mids of those years. MJ and the coaching staff all played a part in helping Pippen develop into a star player next to Michael.

On the other side of things all of Lebrons coaches centered the whole system around giving him the ball. Making it all about him. So when Lebron left the Cavs they were left scratching their heads about what to do next.

With the Bulls. when MJ retired in 1993. They still had that same triangle offense system in place as well as Pippen and other members of that championship squad running that system. There for they continued to play well.

If you can't get it then thats on you.

I don’t think you’re realizing this but you’re making it seem like LeBron is superior with this argument.

or thats just the way you see it. The way I see it is while Lebron was out there grabbing rebounds, throwing assists and scoring a bunch of points. I have to question what identity did the rest of the team have? It was all about Lebron James. There for when he was gone the whole team fell a part.

You really think this is a good thing? I do not. When it comes down to it the results speak for it self. Michaels way of doing things accomplished more success without him going anywhere. End of story.

[ScrantonBulls]

I don't see how its very difficult to understand.

Michael as leader of the Bulls accepted the triangle offense which is what helped him become a better leader and player. Helping Phil become one of the greatest coaches of all time because of the success the men all accomplished together from 1989 to 1998.

In the mids of those years. MJ and the coaching staff all played a part in helping Pippen develop into a star player next to Michael.

On the other side of things all of Lebrons coaches centered the whole system around giving him the ball. Making it all about him. So when Lebron left the Cavs they were left scratching their heads about what to do next.

With the Bulls. when MJ retired in 1993. They still had that same triangle offense system in place as well as Pippen and other members of that championship squad running that system. There for they continued to play well.

If you can't get it then thats on you.

I don’t think you’re realizing this but you’re making it seem like LeBron is superior with this argument.

or thats just the way you see it. The way I see it is while Lebron was out there grabbing rebounds, throwing assists and scoring a bunch of points. I have to question what identity did the rest of the team have? It was all about Lebron James. There for when he was gone the whole team fell a part.

You really think this is a good thing? I do not. When it comes down to it the results speak for it self. Michaels way of doing things accomplished more success without him going anywhere. End of story.

Let me get this straight. So if a player leaves a team, and that team is MUCH worse without a player, that is a knock against the player?

But if a player leaves a team, and the team is nearly as good, that means the player was awesome? What happens if a player leaves the team and the team gets better? Is that player a GOAT? This thinking defies logic...

[Iwasawitness]

This argument is all over the place

Yeah uh, I didn’t even really bother replying to that one, and I usually reply to any Jordan> LeBron argument. It’s hard to take retorts like these seriously.

Yeah well it's pretty hard to take someone seriously who doesn't seem to understand the basic differences between what a shooting guard does for their team vs a point forward like Lebron James.

or the difference between 1 player having the system all about what they're going to do with the ball vs the other guy (MJ) accepting a real team system that brought the best out of him as well as everyone around him to make that 90s Bulls way of play as good as it became. Moving on now.

Jordan accepted a real system because he didn’t have a choice. He wasn’t going to win anything having the Bulls play his style with no construction and no real system.

LeBron actually tried to play within a system in his first year in Miami. Wade told him this was LeBron’s team and he needs to play to his his strengths and they’ll follow his lead. That’s exactly what he did.

You don’t seem to realize though that this argument you’re presenting hurts your case. Jordan needing to play within a system demonstrates that he could not carry a team to the extent LeBron does. You claim I don’t understand the roles a SG and Point Forward have… apart from the fact that I have no idea where you got that nonsense from, me understanding it very clearly is one of the reasons why I have LeBron above Jordan.

[Iwasawitness]

I don’t think you’re realizing this but you’re making it seem like LeBron is superior with this argument.

or thats just the way you see it. The way I see it is while Lebron was out there grabbing rebounds, throwing assists and scoring a bunch of points. I have to question what identity did the rest of the team have? It was all about Lebron James. There for when he was gone the whole team fell a part.

You really think this is a good thing? I do not. When it comes down to it the results speak for it self. Michaels way of doing things accomplished more success without him going anywhere. End of story.

Let me get this straight. So if a player leaves a team, and that team is MUCH worse without a player, that is a knock against the player?

But if a player leaves a team, and the team is nearly as good, that means the player was awesome? What happens if a player leaves the team and the team gets better? Is that player a GOAT? This thinking defies logic...

Again, I don’t really think he thought this through.

[Optms]

Just here to pay my respects to the GOAT. I was once a Lebron skeptic but I've seen the light and have come to terms with acceptance.

[Rust_Cohle]

Born in 1990 and don't even like Lebron and agree. Lebron's longevity is freaking wild. To be this dominant for so long is truly absurd. Give me that kind of lifelong production over anything else.

Ehh missing the playoffs entirely does go against dominant for so long.

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

LeBron willingly joined a rebuilding team and they were still in playoff contention before injuries hampered it.

No one denies the Bulls dominance. You really think LeBron doesn’t do the same in that era with a top 20-30 player with him who fits his skills perfectly, a good supporting cast and competent ownership? Against competition that wasn’t levels above his no less? How well do you think Jordan does going to different teams with different systems? Can you imagine Jordan without the triangle on the same team as Kyrie Irving? I don’t need to explain why that would be a disaster.

Considering Jordan was far from a disaster before the triangle, I doubt he would be a “disaster” in a different system. That’s just ignorance. Jordan didn’t need to build a super team to game the system. And kyrie’s scoring highs were bigger than pippens during that 2016 run. Jordan also never had a big man as dominant as Antony Davis. Lebron was missing the playoffs until AD came.

He also bailed on Cleveland to collude with a super team.

Lebrons lows were much worse than MJ’s. LBJ is still #2 all time and his longevity is amazing, but as mentioned before mvp, finals mvp, scoring title all in the same season…4 times.

And Jordan having a better PER, having to deal with hand checking defenses and far lower scoring than we have today.

[OdomFan]

Yeah uh, I didn’t even really bother replying to that one, and I usually reply to any Jordan> LeBron argument. It’s hard to take retorts like these seriously.

Yeah well it's pretty hard to take someone seriously who doesn't seem to understand the basic differences between what a shooting guard does for their team vs a point forward like Lebron James.

or the difference between 1 player having the system all about what they're going to do with the ball vs the other guy (MJ) accepting a real team system that brought the best out of him as well as everyone around him to make that 90s Bulls way of play as good as it became. Moving on now.

Jordan accepted a real system because he didn’t have a choice. He wasn’t going to win anything having the Bulls play his style with no construction and no real system.

LeBron actually tried to play within a system in his first year in Miami. Wade told him this was LeBron’s team and he needs to play to his his strengths and they’ll follow his lead. That’s exactly what he did.

You don’t seem to realize though that this argument you’re presenting hurts your case. Jordan needing to play within a system demonstrates that he could not carry a team to the extent LeBron does. You claim I don’t understand the roles a SG and Point Forward have… apart from the fact that I have no idea where you got that nonsense from, me understanding it very clearly is one of the reasons why I have LeBron above Jordan.

Didn't have a choice? there's always another choice. Phil Jackson was just a unproven rookie coach that hadn't yet accomplished anything until Michael as leader accepted that system and helped make it one of the most successful systems in the entire history of basketball.

The only thing I see hurting any case around here is you acting like it's required for the leader to carry their team. Every leader has teammates for a reason. As leader Michael motivated his guys to go out there and do what they do best, and that triangle offense strategized all of them to know what they needed to do in order to win those championships together as a unit. It says a lot that you think its taking anything away from Michael that he didn't "carry everyone" like he was the only one out there good at the game with all of them on his back.

[Iwasawitness]

Ehh missing the playoffs entirely does go against dominant for so long.

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

LeBron willingly joined a rebuilding team and they were still in playoff contention before injuries hampered it.

No one denies the Bulls dominance. You really think LeBron doesn’t do the same in that era with a top 20-30 player with him who fits his skills perfectly, a good supporting cast and competent ownership? Against competition that wasn’t levels above his no less? How well do you think Jordan does going to different teams with different systems? Can you imagine Jordan without the triangle on the same team as Kyrie Irving? I don’t need to explain why that would be a disaster.

Considering Jordan was far from a disaster before the triangle, I doubt he would be a “disaster” in a different system. Jordan didn’t need to build a super team to game the system. And kyrie’s scoring highs were bigger than pippens during that 2016 run. Jordan also never had a big man as dominant as Antony Davis. Lebron was missing the playoffs until AD came.

Lebrons lows were much worse than MJ’s. LBJ is still #2 all time and his longevity is amazing, but as mentioned before mvp, finals mvp, scoring title all in the same season…4 times.

And Jordan having a better PER, having to deal with hand checking defenses and far lower scoring than we have today.

Jordan far from a disaster? People actually thought he wasn’t a player you could win with. It was just rinse and repeat for him.

Irving’s scoring was higher than Pippen’s… that’s your comeback? Irving’s scoring was higher than Pippen’s. I’m not dignifying that. Go back and think about what you said and then get back to me.

[Iwasawitness]

Yeah well it's pretty hard to take someone seriously who doesn't seem to understand the basic differences between what a shooting guard does for their team vs a point forward like Lebron James.

or the difference between 1 player having the system all about what they're going to do with the ball vs the other guy (MJ) accepting a real team system that brought the best out of him as well as everyone around him to make that 90s Bulls way of play as good as it became. Moving on now.

Jordan accepted a real system because he didn’t have a choice. He wasn’t going to win anything having the Bulls play his style with no construction and no real system.

LeBron actually tried to play within a system in his first year in Miami. Wade told him this was LeBron’s team and he needs to play to his his strengths and they’ll follow his lead. That’s exactly what he did.

You don’t seem to realize though that this argument you’re presenting hurts your case. Jordan needing to play within a system demonstrates that he could not carry a team to the extent LeBron does. You claim I don’t understand the roles a SG and Point Forward have… apart from the fact that I have no idea where you got that nonsense from, me understanding it very clearly is one of the reasons why I have LeBron above Jordan.

Didn't have a choice? there's always another choice. Phil Jackson was just a unproven rookie coach that hadn't yet accomplished anything until Michael as leader accepted that system and helped make it one of the most successful systems in the entire history of basketball.

The only thing I see hurting any case around here is you acting like it's required for the leader to carry their team. Every leader has teammates for a reason. As leader Michael motivated his guys to go out there and do what they do best, and that triangle offense strategized all of them to know what they needed to do in order to win those championships together as a unit. It says a lot that you think its taking anything away from Michael that he didn't "carry everyone" like he was the only one out there good at the game with all of them on his back.

You are trying to argue that LeBron’s teams being a lot worse without him is a knock on him but Jordan’s Bulls being so good that they are one win away from going to the ECF works in his favor.

You are not thinking this through at all, or you are trolling. I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because you’re actually putting effort into your replies but I don’t think you understand what you’re saying. Look back at your posts and re-read them. Please.

[OdomFan]

or thats just the way you see it. The way I see it is while Lebron was out there grabbing rebounds, throwing assists and scoring a bunch of points. I have to question what identity did the rest of the team have? It was all about Lebron James. There for when he was gone the whole team fell a part.

You really think this is a good thing? I do not. When it comes down to it the results speak for it self. Michaels way of doing things accomplished more success without him going anywhere. End of story.

Let me get this straight. So if a player leaves a team, and that team is MUCH worse without a player, that is a knock against the player?

But if a player leaves a team, and the team is nearly as good, that means the player was awesome? What happens if a player leaves the team and the team gets better? Is that player a GOAT? This thinking defies logic...

Again, I don’t really think he thought this through.

I thought it through just fine. Its not my problem that you don't understand.

One guy helped his teammates and coach become household names, and the other guy jumped from team to team to take the easy way out. When it comes down to it. Which of Lebrons coaches is going to be remembered the way Phil is with MJ, Pat Riley with Magic and even Lebrons former teammate Wade. Red with Bill Russell, and Popovich with Duncan? None I can think of. I don't see any of them going down in history any where close to the top 10 or top 5.

and none of Lebrons teammates ever became a star next to him. End of story.

[Sedale Threatt]

There is so much narrative bullsht with Jordan that it's hard to sort through at a certain point. But my absolute favorite is that the Bulls didn't become the Bulls, and by extension Jordan/Jordan, until he acquiesced to a more team-oriented system and became a better leader/teammate. (And I'm a huge Phil Jackson fan, by the way. I saw firsthand what he's capable of doing with the Lakers. He's obviously an outstanding coach.)

But talent trumps everything, and what actually happened in Chicago is that Grant and especially Pippen finally developed to the point where he had some acceptable running mates. Jordan didn't need a ton of help, but like everybody else he did need some, and once he finally got it, it was curtains regardless of what kind of system they were running. Because he still monopolized the offense almost as much post triangle as he did pre.