How Is LeBron Playing At Such A High Level? Unreal...

[Rust_Cohle]

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uWyzC3JZZFPMkyJGpsbOwZ0LsOdyO2OmlqkvnYk4Xm8/edit?pli=1#gid=0

From age 21 - 28, they're both pretty much equally dominant and almost first in everything.

For the period age 29-34, Jordan maintained a significantly higher ranking in each metric almost across the board.

In 97-98 season, Jordan had easily one of the biggest offensive carry jobs ever. Still the highest percentage of a championship team's total points scored by a single player in the playoffs. Greatest playoff PER ever too.

He also won MVP was First Team All Defense, and led the Bulls to a 62-20 record with an older beaten down team. Scottie only played 44 games and was not the same after that surgery.

Nobody on that roster was close to as good as AD was in 2020 and Jordan in that Playoff run contributed more to his teams total points than almost anyone has and went up against the #1 seed Jazz with Stockton and Malone in the Finals. He scored 45 points in the close out Game 6. The rest of his team scored 44 and Scottie played that entire series with a hurt back.

2 more rings in 3,561 less minutes is impressive.

And this absolutely nails why Jordan comes out ahead:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/michael-jordan-faced-better-competition-than-lebron-james/

[ScrantonBulls]

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uWyzC3JZZFPMkyJGpsbOwZ0LsOdyO2OmlqkvnYk4Xm8/edit?pli=1#gid=0

From age 21 - 28, they're both pretty much equally dominant and almost first in everything.

For the period age 29-34, Jordan maintained a significantly higher ranking in each metric almost across the board.

In 97-98 season, Jordan had easily one of the biggest offensive carry jobs ever. Still the highest percentage of a championship team's total points scored by a single player in the playoffs. Greatest playoff PER ever too.

He also won MVP was First Team All Defense, and led the Bulls to a 62-20 record with an older beaten down team. Scottie only played 44 games and was not the same after that surgery.

Nobody on that roster was close to as good as AD was in 2020 and Jordan in that Playoff run contributed more to his teams total points than almost anyone has and went up against the #1 seed Jazz with Stockton and Malone in the Finals. He scored 45 points in the close out Game 6. The rest of his team scored 44 and Scottie played that entire series with a hurt back.

2 more rings in 3,561 less minutes is impressive.

And this absolutely nails why Jordan comes out ahead:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/michael-jordan-faced-better-competition-than-lebron-james/

I'm struggling to understand your spreadsheet. Maybe it is because I'm on mobile, most of the numbers look off.

Jokic passed MJ in all-time playoff PER btw. I'd imagine MJ will regain the lead of Jokoc plays into his mid 30s however.

I've seen that article before. I can't get on board with the 97 Jazz and the 96 Supersonics being better than the 2014 Spurs, among other things. Every finals team the MJ Bulls faced were better than the 2018 Warriors? Yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

[NbaAllDay]

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uWyzC3JZZFPMkyJGpsbOwZ0LsOdyO2OmlqkvnYk4Xm8/edit?pli=1#gid=0

From age 21 - 28, they're both pretty much equally dominant and almost first in everything.

For the period age 29-34, Jordan maintained a significantly higher ranking in each metric almost across the board.

In 97-98 season, Jordan had easily one of the biggest offensive carry jobs ever. Still the highest percentage of a championship team's total points scored by a single player in the playoffs. Greatest playoff PER ever too.

He also won MVP was First Team All Defense, and led the Bulls to a 62-20 record with an older beaten down team. Scottie only played 44 games and was not the same after that surgery.

Nobody on that roster was close to as good as AD was in 2020 and Jordan in that Playoff run contributed more to his teams total points than almost anyone has and went up against the #1 seed Jazz with Stockton and Malone in the Finals. He scored 45 points in the close out Game 6. The rest of his team scored 44 and Scottie played that entire series with a hurt back.

2 more rings in 3,561 less minutes is impressive.

And this absolutely nails why Jordan comes out ahead:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/michael-jordan-faced-better-competition-than-lebron-james/

I'm struggling to understand your spreadsheet. Maybe it is because I'm on mobile, most of the numbers look off.

Jokic passed MJ in all-time playoff PER btw. I'd imagine MJ will regain the lead of Jokoc plays into his mid 30s however.

I've seen that article before. I can't get on board with the 97 Jazz and the 96 Supersonics being better than the 2014 Spurs, among other things. Every finals team the MJ Bulls faced were better than the 2018 Warriors? Yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

The only thing that article nails is the confirmation bias of people using it as evidence.

[Lalouie]

again,,,"a 3mph freight train is still unstoppable"

[Lalouie]

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

please enough with the hard stats across eras. it is in itself a ridiculous effort.

give me comparisons of lebron/mj vs. their top3,,,top5,,,top10,,,top20 peers in their respective years
AND THEN
let's play it out

[parapooper]

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

please enough with the hard stats across eras. it is in itself a ridiculous effort.

give me comparisons of lebron/mj vs. their top3,,,top5,,,top10,,,top20 peers in their respective years
AND THEN
let's play it out

You mean like number of times top3 in playoff VORP:
Jordan 8x
LeBron 15x

or % of years in the top3 in playoff VORP over a 13-year span (=length of MJs Bulls career):
Jordan 62%
LeBron 100%

or over a 20-year span (=length of lebron's career)
Jordan 40%
Lebron 75%

[One Last Shot]

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

please enough with the hard stats across eras. it is in itself a ridiculous effort.

give me comparisons of lebron/mj vs. their top3,,,top5,,,top10,,,top20 peers in their respective years
AND THEN
let's play it out

So let's start with Finals opponents. In 1998 Finals, John Stockton was the 2nd best player of Utah and averaged 9.7 ppg, 8.7 apg, 2.5 rpg in their Finals series. In 2017 Finals, Draymond Green was the 4th best player of GSW and averaged 11.0 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 4.8 apg in their Finals series. The 4th best player of the Warriors is better than the 2nd best player of the Jazz. MJ got 1 opponent who scored 25+ ppg in 6 of his NBA Finals series. LeBron got 2 opponents who scored 25+ ppg in 2017 NBA Finals alone. That's the difference of the competition they faced in their era.

[Lalouie]

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

please enough with the hard stats across eras. it is in itself a ridiculous effort.

give me comparisons of lebron/mj vs. their top3,,,top5,,,top10,,,top20 peers in their respective years
AND THEN
let's play it out

So let's start with Finals opponents. In 1998 Finals, John Stockton was the 2nd best player of Utah and averaged 9.7 ppg, 8.7 apg, 2.5 rpg in their Finals series. In 2017 Finals, Draymond Green was the 4th best player of GSW and averaged 11.0 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 4.8 apg in their Finals series. The 4th best player of the Warriors is better than the 2nd best player of the Jazz. MJ got 1 opponent who scored 25+ ppg in 6 of his NBA Finals series. LeBron got 2 opponents who scored 25+ ppg in 2017 NBA Finals alone. That's the difference of the competition they faced in their era.

i thought i was pretty clear about what i was asking for but i guess not

[Lalouie]

double three peat
team achievement,
LeBron would have 4-peated by age 22 if the Cavs hadnt drafted him because he would have been on the 2004 to 2007 Pistons - so what

better peak
Jordan 91: RSPSaverage: PER 31.8, BPM 13.3
Lebron 09: RSPSaverage: PER 34.5, BPM 15.3
Before the the mentally challenged "riiiing" response:
LeBrons Gamescore in ECF: 29.3 against 101.9 DRtg - lost putting up 39-8-8 against the nr.1 defense
Jordans Gamescore in ECF: 26.3 against 104.6 DRtg - played worse against a worse defense but swept opponent with 12 point win margin

Defense:
playoff Jordan averaged 7.7 DRB+STl+BLK while LeBron averaged 10.2 over 1.5x as many minutes

playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 2.3 vs 2.5 for Lebron over 1.5x as many minutes
using DBPM before the formula was retroactively changed to make Jordan look better and Lebron worse:
playoff Jordan had a DBPM of 1.8 vs 3.5 for Lebron

Scoring:
playoff Jordan scored 33.4 pts/game while playoff LeBron 2009 to 2020 (1300 more minutes than Jordans playoff career) scored 29.2 pts/game on 4.2 less FGA and 1 less FTA - so Jordan additional scoring came at a TS% below 46% = counterproductive
Over his entire career Jordan scored 9000 points less than Lebron at lower efficiency.

Playoff PER:
Jordan 28.6 over 7474 minutes
Lebron 29.5 over 8762 minutes from 09 to 2020
-> more minutes than MJ at a higher PER + 5 additional playoffs at young or old age where LeBron's PER was around Kobe-level and Jordan's PER was non-existent

please enough with the hard stats across eras. it is in itself a ridiculous effort.

give me comparisons of lebron/mj vs. their top3,,,top5,,,top10,,,top20 peers in their respective years
AND THEN
let's play it out

You mean like number of times top3 in playoff VORP:
Jordan 8x
LeBron 15x

or % of years in the top3 in playoff VORP over a 13-year span (=length of MJs Bulls career):
Jordan 62%
LeBron 100%

or over a 20-year span (=length of lebron's career)
Jordan 40%
Lebron 75%

as in if a player averages 35ppg and the other top5 players are 22ppg and top10 are 18ppg, that is a whole lot more on another level than if the other top5 players were 33ppg and the league was 25ppg

in other words i'm talking about SEPARATION from the rest of the league

that is the only way to compare players from different eras. comparing eras with hard stats is not the answer.

shooting 3s today when kids practice shooting 3s and the 3 is an important part of a player's game IS DIFFERENT than 40 years ago when the 3 was not a thing, when kids were not practicing it and it was not an important part of the game

this should all be self-evident

otherwise,,,comparing across eras only makes sense if it's non-stat based. what legacy does a player leave behind for instance. the impact of a player on the game for instance

[walk with me]

Saying the same thing over and over is not evidence. You're basically saying he's guilty until proven otherwise. Sorry but that's not how it works.

The window for lebron being “innocent until proven guilty” has passed about 5 or 6 years ago. Right now bron is Barry Bonds hitting 73 home runs except in an era where sports media and fans absolutely dont care about athletes being on drugs. People just want the show and don’t care about the ethics around it.

Edit:

Players I would consider innocent until proven guilty would be like Steph Curry and Kevin Durant. Lebron is far beyond that point. The only people who will argue this are big time lebron fans.

Okay, so prove it.

This isn’t a real convo if you’re just going to keep repeating “prove it” the only way to officially prove it is with a failed drug test which won’t ever happen.

By that rationale you’re also implying you think every athlete in the history of sports (wrestling included) who has never produced an official failed drug test is a clean athlete and I’m pretty sure you’re not that dumb

[walk with me]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

[BrianFitz]

Born in 1990 and don't even like Lebron and agree. Lebron's longevity is freaking wild. To be this dominant for so long is truly absurd. Give me that kind of lifelong production over anything else.

Ehh missing the playoffs entirely does go against dominant for so long.

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

LeBron willingly joined a rebuilding team and they were still in playoff contention before injuries hampered it.

No one denies the Bulls dominance. You really think LeBron doesn’t do the same in that era with a top 20-30 player with him who fits his skills perfectly, a good supporting cast and competent ownership? Against competition that wasn’t levels above his no less? How well do you think Jordan does going to different teams with different systems? Can you imagine Jordan without the triangle on the same team as Kyrie Irving? I don’t need to explain why that would be a disaster.

Whenever I see you post I can't help but wonder how many personal letters you've written to Lebron hoping and praying he'll write back.

[Dirk]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

Do you believe that "peds" prolong someone's career?

A top tier athlete comes into the league, stays at the top for ages... all the while taking "peds"?

Do you think Lebron has access to "peds" that other athletes dont have?

Do you have plausible answers to the questions above?

[walk with me]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

Do you believe that "peds" prolong someone's career?

A top tier athlete comes into the league, stays at the top for ages... all the while taking "peds"?

Do you think Lebron has access to "peds" that other athletes dont have?

Do you have plausible answers to the questions above?

There are types of PEDs that can absolutely prolong someone career especially if you start early enough.

Your 2nd question I’m not sure if I’m supposed to answer. I guess if I am. You can be both an iconic 1 of an kind athlete and also be taking peds.

Your 3rd question - all nba players have enough money to access any performance enhancing drugs they want. I think the main thing here is the culture of the sport you’re involved in and what’s in it for the athlete being discussed. I don’t think the nba has a peds problem and I don’t think the culture of the nba is to use peds (unlike combat sports like wrestling, boxing or mma).

A guy like Blake griffin or Deandre Jordan who fell off a cliff instantly at the age of 31/32 had great reason to use peds if they wanted to but likely opted against it cause they didn’t care (imo… they still could be dirty). Other guys who have their own agendas or pursuits may feel there’s a reason to use PEDs (gain more money, accolades, fame, love the attention).


Let’s compare two guys in a diff sport. Ken Griffey Jr vs Arod. I’m not a huge baseball fan but two world class first ballot HOF guys. I’m pretty sure (without knowing officially) Ken Griffey jr was a clean athlete and arod on the other hand (officially) popped dirty.

Neither needed it but they had 2 separate agendas. There’s actually an episode of the show on nba tv that had all the legends on it (Isiah Thomas, Barkley, Reggie miller, etc) sitting around a table telling stories. I forget the name but tmac was on once and said he considered taking peds once because other players were using it and his career was starting to wind down but his pride as a clean athlete opted against it. The episode has been scrubbed from the internet but it happened. Barkley said he would have absolutely taken peds because at the end of the day who cares. He’s in it for the money.

Ultimately it just boils down to your agenda as an athlete.

[walk with me]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

Do you believe that "peds" prolong someone's career?

A top tier athlete comes into the league, stays at the top for ages... all the while taking "peds"?

Do you think Lebron has access to "peds" that other athletes dont have?

Do you have plausible answers to the questions above?

Actually managed to find the episode I referenced above but only the tmac clip.

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/shorts/14VeXqZT_XA?si=uRKo97zBwrp72PR9&fbclid=IwAR2gu6WyabgXUa7UFxuV1tOflHKagFgXkM-0ISQ9yi8LXt6kgK-sFnvTzoM[/youtube]

[Iwasawitness]

Ehh missing the playoffs entirely does go against dominant for so long.

Jordan had a double three peat, better peak, I do agree that lebron had better longevity but MJ was a better defender and scorer and better PER, #1 all time for playoffs which more GOAT like than lebron

LeBron willingly joined a rebuilding team and they were still in playoff contention before injuries hampered it.

No one denies the Bulls dominance. You really think LeBron doesn’t do the same in that era with a top 20-30 player with him who fits his skills perfectly, a good supporting cast and competent ownership? Against competition that wasn’t levels above his no less? How well do you think Jordan does going to different teams with different systems? Can you imagine Jordan without the triangle on the same team as Kyrie Irving? I don’t need to explain why that would be a disaster.

Whenever I see you post I can't help but wonder how many personal letters you've written to Lebron hoping and praying he'll write back.

0. I have shook his hand before though. And no, I didn’t lose my mind when I did, because I’m an adult who treats these guys like regular people.

Oh who am I kidding, I lost my **** when I met Griffey Jr.

[Iwasawitness]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

Some waiting for evidence.

[walk with me]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

Some waiting for evidence.

You can behave this way if you want but it doesn’t do anything but prove your unwillingness to engage in a respectful convo.

You don’t look better and your position doesn’t look any stronger. I’ve answered several times that Lebron will never have a dirty test. I answered your question but you’re afraid or unwilling to answer mines. Oh well. I’ll continue having the convo with the global mod who responded.

[Iwasawitness]

For anyone who doubts the potential of Lebron being on peds and suggests it’s a reach…

Do you think every athlete in the history of sports who has never failed a test is clean? Think about that for a second…

Some waiting for evidence.

You can behave this way if you want but it doesn’t do anything but prove your unwillingness to engage in a respectful convo.

You don’t look better and your position doesn’t look any stronger. I’ve answered several times that Lebron will never have a dirty test. I answered your question but you’re afraid or unwilling to answer mines. Oh well. I’ll continue having the convo with the global mod who responded.

You said that making an assumption with no evidence to go off of is a smart thing to do. There’s no conversation to be had here. You are just wrong, that’s all there is to it.

I’ve asked you for evidence and you haven’t provided it. Until you do so, I have no reason to have a serious back and forth with you. Give me evidence. I’ve asked like four times now.

[WillyJakkz]

I will unequivocally tell anyone this.

PED's will tear thru your joints and does not keep you as mobile/ fluid looking. Look at any athlete that has been on them (wrestlers included) and look how stiff they are. And that is not due to bulkiness etc.

Being older AND PED's would definitely affect your nimbleness, you can tell because bending their knees is a chore, they start leaning over to reach vs being able to bend or crouch.

LeBron can still bend his knees and crouch and I attribute that more to genetic anomaly vs him being on PED's.

And yeah it's a funny hypothesis but look at the older guys like CP3 Al Horford etc they can't really bend their knees while LeBron and Curry still run around practically like a spring chicken.

LeBron's stiffness just comes losing athelticism from age but he was so far ahead as a world class athlete that he still looks fantastic.

Rodman was another guy who was a physical phenom of that ilk. Could party etc and play and was in maximum shape in his mid late 30s as a Bull.