iamoti wrote:This 100%. I don't understand why this is not discussed more. You could say Jaquez developed for free in college and now you have him on a rookie scale starting at 22 compared to a 19yo who you have to use the rookie scale to develop.
Sounds like MIL shouldn’t have drafted that Giannis kid when they could have had drafted a college-proven Mason Plumlee.
No?
Stupid argument. For every Giannis or even lesser players there are a lot of players who are out of the league by the time they reach 22yo. If Giannis was a sure thing he would've went nr.1 overall.
The Heat have revealed that Jaquez is just the fourth rookie player ever to connect on 55.5% field goal shooting from two-point land on over 200 field goal tries as well as 38.1% from long range on 50 or more attempts.
His 1.0 points scored per drive ranks tops among all rookies this year. His 261 fourth quarter minutes (and remember, he is currently a reserve) ranks most among all rookies. His 1.7 points scored per post-up is the most in the entire NBA for players who've had 25 or more post-ups.
His six games played with 15 or more points and 4.4 drive points per bout both rank third among all rookies, behind only Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama. His four rim looks per bout rank him fourth.
I’m not saying Jaime is a bad player but some of those stats also is a reflection on how mediocre the rookie class has been so far while also showing how ready and polished Jaime has been. Honestly, no knock on him, he’s playing great but I take this more as “Who would you rather start a franchise with?” And I’m going with Shae because while he develops, I can almost guarantee we are losing enough to gather more top tier talent around him in the draft to help build a much stronger team going forward. And again… while I like Jaime, I’m not building a team around him.
No one really has replied to one of my first questions: Who are some of Jaime’s career comps? Who/how do people project he becomes? If people see him as a Gordon Hayward type then I’m not sure he wins you anything significant as a #1 option. One person threw out Shawn Marion but Marion was a menace on defense and much more athletic in his prime.
The Heat have revealed that Jaquez is just the fourth rookie player ever to connect on 55.5% field goal shooting from two-point land on over 200 field goal tries as well as 38.1% from long range on 50 or more attempts.
His 1.0 points scored per drive ranks tops among all rookies this year. His 261 fourth quarter minutes (and remember, he is currently a reserve) ranks most among all rookies. His 1.7 points scored per post-up is the most in the entire NBA for players who've had 25 or more post-ups.
His six games played with 15 or more points and 4.4 drive points per bout both rank third among all rookies, behind only Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama. His four rim looks per bout rank him fourth.
I’m not saying Jaime is a bad player but some of those stats also is a reflection on how mediocre the rookie class has been so far while also showing how ready and polished Jaime has been. Honestly, no knock on him, he’s playing great but I take this more as “Who would you rather start a franchise with?” And I’m going with Shae because while he develops, I can almost guarantee we are losing enough to gather more top tier talent around him in the draft to help build a much stronger team going forward. And again… while I like Jaime, I’m not building a team around him.
No one really has replied to one of my first questions: Who are some of Jaime’s career comps? Who/how do people project he becomes? If people see him as a Gordon Hayward type then I’m not sure he wins you anything significant as a #1 option. One person threw out Shawn Marion but Marion was a menace on defense and much more athletic in his prime.
So many contradictions in your post I don't know where to begin. Anyways to answer your question, Jimmy Butler but more offensively talented/oriented early on but not quite the tenacity defensively. However, hes still been phenomenal on defense for a rookie and already taking on some of the toughest defensive assignments.
The Heat have revealed that Jaquez is just the fourth rookie player ever to connect on 55.5% field goal shooting from two-point land on over 200 field goal tries as well as 38.1% from long range on 50 or more attempts.
His 1.0 points scored per drive ranks tops among all rookies this year. His 261 fourth quarter minutes (and remember, he is currently a reserve) ranks most among all rookies. His 1.7 points scored per post-up is the most in the entire NBA for players who've had 25 or more post-ups.
His six games played with 15 or more points and 4.4 drive points per bout both rank third among all rookies, behind only Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama. His four rim looks per bout rank him fourth.
I’m not saying Jaime is a bad player but some of those stats also is a reflection on how mediocre the rookie class has been so far while also showing how ready and polished Jaime has been. Honestly, no knock on him, he’s playing great but I take this more as “Who would you rather start a franchise with?” And I’m going with Shae because while he develops, I can almost guarantee we are losing enough to gather more top tier talent around him in the draft to help build a much stronger team going forward. And again… while I like Jaime, I’m not building a team around him.
No one really has replied to one of my first questions: Who are some of Jaime’s career comps? Who/how do people project he becomes? If people see him as a Gordon Hayward type then I’m not sure he wins you anything significant as a #1 option. One person threw out Shawn Marion but Marion was a menace on defense and much more athletic in his prime.
I hear you, but that's why I underlined the section I did: right now, he's statistically performing better in the post than not just rookies but everybody.
To your question, earlier this season some of us put his mid-tier comp at Shane Battier, which I think is a really good one. He looks like he'll be a much better scorer than Shane now though. No idea what his ceiling could be but I think becoming Jimmy Butler 2.0 is not out of the realm of possibility. He's already admitted to building a lot of his game around Jimmy and will now presumably learn from him for a least a couple more years.
Jaime has prime Jimmy Butler potential. And, Jimmy was arguably a TOP 10 player last 2 seasons at least (not even including the bubble season). So, Jaime has all star, and even all NBA level potential. How much higher potential Shaedon has than that?
The Heat have revealed that Jaquez is just the fourth rookie player ever to connect on 55.5% field goal shooting from two-point land on over 200 field goal tries as well as 38.1% from long range on 50 or more attempts.
His 1.0 points scored per drive ranks tops among all rookies this year. His 261 fourth quarter minutes (and remember, he is currently a reserve) ranks most among all rookies. His 1.7 points scored per post-up is the most in the entire NBA for players who've had 25 or more post-ups.
His six games played with 15 or more points and 4.4 drive points per bout both rank third among all rookies, behind only Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama. His four rim looks per bout rank him fourth.
I’m not saying Jaime is a bad player but some of those stats also is a reflection on how mediocre the rookie class has been so far while also showing how ready and polished Jaime has been. Honestly, no knock on him, he’s playing great but I take this more as “Who would you rather start a franchise with?” And I’m going with Shae because while he develops, I can almost guarantee we are losing enough to gather more top tier talent around him in the draft to help build a much stronger team going forward. And again… while I like Jaime, I’m not building a team around him.
No one really has replied to one of my first questions: Who are some of Jaime’s career comps? Who/how do people project he becomes? If people see him as a Gordon Hayward type then I’m not sure he wins you anything significant as a #1 option. One person threw out Shawn Marion but Marion was a menace on defense and much more athletic in his prime.
The comparison doesn't have to be perfect. I compared him to Marion, because like Shawn, I believe he's going to be an incredibly high level role player who makes a few all-star games.
Internally, and publicly, the team compares him to Jimmy Butler and that fits, too. The style of play is very similar.
As for who you want to start a franchise with, I think that depends on whether or not you believe in Sharpe. I'm not sure I do. He reminds me of a million other athletic wings full of potential that just didn't pan out. He might, but he could also be Ricky Davis, Darius Miles, Harold Miner, or any other hundred guys just like them. I think the chances of him busting are much higher than Jaquez.
VaDe255 wrote:If you put them in the draft with the information we have right now, JJJ will go first.
I'm not going to deep dive into their numbers but from a glance JJJ's shot profile is great and he is scoring on very high efficiency, it looks sustainable. His usage is already on the high end for a role player.
Sharps shot profile and usage is similiar, but he struggles majorly with efficiecy and is below nba average. He gets fewer steals and has a lower ast/to ratio.
At this point you just bank on potential, but getting to those efficiecy numbers JJJ is posting up right now will be difficult for Sharp, as he is not getting to the rim as much and is more reliant on the 3p shot.
As far as shot profile and efficiency, a lot of that is tied to role. I won’t dive into it either because I’m not going to get too serious about this but Jaime is playing a supporting role on that Heat team while Shae had for most of this year played as one of the lead roles on the Blazers. Offenses and defenses engage the two differently very differently. And while I respect how well Jaime is playing, it’s hard for me to ignore that. If I were to ask Jaime to play a similar role say as a 1st option on a rebuilding team, I’d be comfortable saying he’d wouldn’t have the same shooting efficiency.
It's 22% usage for SS and 19.6% usage for JJJ, there is barely any difference in their roles. JJJ is already getting major closing minutes and regularly the toughest defensive assignments.
The main difference for me is that JJJ is clearly impacting winnig on a playoff team. Last year when he played at UCLA, he had a 27.9% usage and the highest win share rating on the team. He has been the go to guy before and his usage on the Heat is likely going to increase.
JJJ has major Jimmy Butler vibes. Is far ahead of what Jimmy was offensively when he entered the league, but not as good on defense.
I don't see how anyone would take SS over JJJ with the information we have right now. It's not even clear that SS can be a winning player, yet. He has talent but his inefficiency and small impact on Blazers winning is the main reason, reflected in his adanced stats and win shares that are at the very bottom of his team.
USG% alone does not indicate whether a player has the the same role or not. They have different roles albeit with some overlap but the opposing team’s defenses are more game planned for Shae than they are for Jaime. Also, Shae averages 6.4MPG more than Jaime does; 35MPG vs 28.6MPG and has been noticeably tired from the amount of minutes he’s had to play IN this role.
Last year at UCLA the team was 5-6 and had the 2nd to worst record in the Pac-12… That UCLA team was not good, so him having the highest usage and win shares on the team is not something I consider convincing.
Again Jaime is a baller. Credit to him but he’s also playing on a team that has veterans that made it to the finals last year, playing under one of the best coaches in the league in a role where he’s definitely grasped. But also remember that Spoelstra and the Heat system are largely know for maximizing certain players. That’s what they do; most recently Gabe Vincent, Max Struss, Duncan Robinson, list goes on. So one could make an argument on that alone when referencing whether Jaime would have the same success elsewhere and whether he’d be as impactful or efficient. Role, team, coaching all play a big part in the the success of player.
Also, if you “don’t see how anyone would take SS over JJJ with the information we have right now” then you might be too bias for this debate. It’s honestly a really odd debate to begin with because I’m not sure why OP wants to compare these two in the first place. Not the same draft year, not the same HS class, not really the same position, etc. And that’s why I asked the context in my first post.
Eagle4 wrote:So many contradictions in your post I don't know where to begin. Anyways to answer your question, Jimmy Butler but more offensively talented/oriented early on but not quite the tenacity defensively. However, hes still been phenomenal on defense for a rookie and already taking on some of the toughest defensive assignments.
Genuinely curious which parts you find contradicting?
Comparing Sharpe potentially to Darius Miles and Ricky Davis is all I need to know about how little to none some fans have watched Shaedon and simply have a message they're trying to get across.
The Sebastian Express wrote:Comparing Sharpe potentially to Darius Miles and Ricky Davis is all I need to know about how little to none some fans have watched Shaedon and simply have a message they're trying to get across.
*Sigh*
I didn't mean to compare him to them. I said he could become them or he could become a star. His floor is lower than Jamie's. That's a fact.
deepeeenn wrote:I think it depends on what context you’re asking. If you’re looking to rebuild around one of these players and you have a handful of years till you want to contend? It’s Shae, hands down. If you have a team that’s playoff bound, maybe championship ready that’s looking for a low cost high level role player, you easily go Jaime. He’s able to contribute to winning right now on a good team in that role and would likely not be as appreciated on a team rebuilding around him.
I’m not sure how people project Jaime’s ceiling but as much as a like him, I see him as a floor raising multi-tool role player most of his career. Whereas with Shae, he really could be the best player on a playoff team, whether that’s a championship contending team is where I’m not yet sure. Lots more question marks with Shae for him to reach his ceiling.
Curious what every thinks Jaime’s career comps are?
This is the correct answer.
For a rebuilding team: Shaedon
For a competing team: Jaime.
Shaedon's numbers have come down in the last few games when he's been stupidly playing through injury (thanks Chauncey). He's made noticeable improvements this season (particularly getting to the free throw line and his handles have tightened up), so he's trending in the right direction.
The Sebastian Express wrote:Comparing Sharpe potentially to Darius Miles and Ricky Davis is all I need to know about how little to none some fans have watched Shaedon and simply have a message they're trying to get across.
*Sigh*
I didn't mean to compare him to them. I said he could become them or he could become a star. His floor is lower than Jamie's. That's a fact.
My apologies for my word choice
His ceiling is also higher.
He’s more of a gamble.
Edrees wrote:
JRoy wrote:Monta Ellis have it all
I was hoping and expecting this to be one of the first replies. You did not disappoint. Jroy have it all.
The Sebastian Express wrote:Comparing Sharpe potentially to Darius Miles and Ricky Davis is all I need to know about how little to none some fans have watched Shaedon and simply have a message they're trying to get across.
*Sigh*
I didn't mean to compare him to them. I said he could become them or he could become a star. His floor is lower than Jamie's. That's a fact.
My apologies for my word choice
His ceiling is also higher.
He’s more of a gamble.
Where do you have Jaquez’s ceiling compared to Sharpe?
The Sebastian Express wrote:Comparing Sharpe potentially to Darius Miles and Ricky Davis is all I need to know about how little to none some fans have watched Shaedon and simply have a message they're trying to get across.
*Sigh*
I didn't mean to compare him to them. I said he could become them or he could become a star. His floor is lower than Jamie's. That's a fact.
My apologies for my word choice
His ceiling is also higher.
He’s more of a gamble.
Based on, what, exactly? His age? That's not a convincing argument imo...
I didn't mean to compare him to them. I said he could become them or he could become a star. His floor is lower than Jamie's. That's a fact.
My apologies for my word choice
His ceiling is also higher.
He’s more of a gamble.
Where do you have Jaquez’s ceiling compared to Sharpe?
Jacquez is a fine player but doesn’t have the athletic tools Sharpe does. Skills can be learned, but there is a competitive drive in JJ that I don’t see in Sharpe.
Edrees wrote:
JRoy wrote:Monta Ellis have it all
I was hoping and expecting this to be one of the first replies. You did not disappoint. Jroy have it all.
