NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[Chessboxer]

Luka is basically Euro Kobe. Not only will he win an MVP, he's going to win chips. You basically can quote me on it. Just a matter of time.

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg in NBA history(32.5). That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first playoff appearance, and he was only what, 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years, or basically since he's come in the the league.

[CobraCommander]

Not ready to call him a consistently good defender yet, but:

Read on Twitter

If he plays defense like that every night....he will get some first team mvp votes. The scoring and assist are nice but we expect that from Luka and 6 guys avg 30 so...it’s kinda what ever

and Jokic avg more assist and more rebounds and only 5 less points....but if Luka plays with this level of intensity on defense...well like he does against Booker and the Suns...that’s my mvp.

SGA plays defense - that’s what makes him better than Luka - but this Luka plays defense too

Scoring is what ever - take as many shots as he does you should lead the league in scoring...but beat them down at both ends like he did yesterday...that’s special

That’s reallly special - it’s the secret of greatness -

[Kurtz]

Once again, he's injured for many if not all of these games. That's all there is to it. You like to question how injured he is. He is, it's not for you to say he's faking it, or ducking. It's such a lame reason.

I think we've arrived at the truth with this comment that probably everyone could agree with.

The guy is banged up constantly and he tactically choses to sit out the most difficult games on the road, usually back to backs.

It's very annoying but smart.

[CobraCommander]

Luka is basically Euro Kobe. Not only will he win an MVP, he's going to win chips. You basically can quote me on it. Just a matter of time.

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg(32.5 ) in NBA history. That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first appearance, and he was only what , 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years.

I don’t think you can compare the game Kobe came into with the game Luka came into...

Kobe came in with hand checking tackle football basketball and playing MJ...Luka came in with no touching flag football basketball. Luka taking 8-10 3s a game. No one did that back then so scoring is inflated all around. This is the juice ball era in baseball - Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe’s level. Kobe is top what ever cause he won and won big multiple times - comparing the counting stats now and then seems disingenuous- otherwise we would have compared MJ to Wilt and wilt would he the goat - eras matter in the stats

[Chessboxer]

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg(32.5 ) in NBA history. That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first appearance, and he was only what , 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years.

I don’t think you can compare the game Kobe came into with the game Luka came into...

Kobe came in with hand checking tackle football basketball and playing MJ...Luka came in with no touching flag football basketball. Luka taking 8-10 3s a game. No one did that back then so scoring is inflated all around. This is the juice ball era in baseball - Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe’s level. Kobe is top what ever cause he won and won big multiple times - comparing the counting stats now and then seems disingenuous- otherwise we would have compared MJ to Wilt and wilt would he the goat - eras matter in the stats

Oh I agree with you on that point, scoring is definitely inflated. My main point was with the previous poster saying Luka is just a regular season player which just simply isn't true. Had nothing to do with Kobe, and comparisons to Kobe right now are premature.

[Dirk]

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg(32.5 ) in NBA history. That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first appearance, and he was only what , 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years.

I don’t think you can compare the game Kobe came into with the game Luka came into...

Kobe came in with hand checking tackle football basketball and playing MJ...Luka came in with no touching flag football basketball. Luka taking 8-10 3s a game. No one did that back then so scoring is inflated all around. This is the juice ball era in baseball - Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe’s level. Kobe is top what ever cause he won and won big multiple times - comparing the counting stats now and then seems disingenuous- otherwise we would have compared MJ to Wilt and wilt would he the goat - eras matter in the stats

You write that as if Kobe was even the best player on his team and as if a player single handily can win. It probably would make more sense to compare based on the relative strengths of each team, rather than the absolute of "winning championships".

[Primedeion]

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg(32.5 ) in NBA history. That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first appearance, and he was only what , 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years.

I don’t think you can compare the game Kobe came into with the game Luka came into...

Kobe came in with hand checking tackle football basketball and playing MJ...Luka came in with no touching flag football basketball. Luka taking 8-10 3s a game. No one did that back then so scoring is inflated all around. This is the juice ball era in baseball - Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe’s level. Kobe is top what ever cause he won and won big multiple times - comparing the counting stats now and then seems disingenuous- otherwise we would have compared MJ to Wilt and wilt would he the goat - eras matter in the stats

You write that as if Kobe was even the best player on his team.

He was far and away the best player on multiple championship teams. Where do these trolls come from?

[iggymcfrack]

Luka is basically Euro Kobe. Not only will he win an MVP, he's going to win chips. You basically can quote me on it. Just a matter of time.

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg in NBA history(32.5). That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first playoff appearance, and he was only what, 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years, or basically since he's come in the the league.

What I said is that he’s an overrated regular season player that shouldn’t be one of the top contenders for MVP this season, but that he’s good enough in the playoffs, it’s basically guaranteed that he’ll have a better career than Kobe.

[LordCovington33]

Most objective fan here I support and love Philly, but am from the Balkans and my favorite players are Jokic at first position and then Doncic.

In my opinion, this year, as it is going, is Embiids year. I think Jokic was robbed of MVP last year, but this year he is not as good as last three seasons. Doncic is rising, but Embiid is honestly on a different level this year, Having said that I would change Embiid MVP for a ring immediately.

Of course. I would swap 2 MVPs for a Finals MVP, which would mean a title. I think more people are aware that MJ won 6 Finals MVPs than how many regular season ones. Some people here get their knickers in a twist about Embiid winning last year, but Jokic was the real winner at the end of the day.

[Curmudgeon]

It's Doncic and everybody knows it, even the people who don't vote for him. Embiid isn't even the Sixers most valuable player.

[Chessboxer]

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

I think you mean the opposite right? Luka always shows up in the playoffs. He already is second all time in playoff ppg in NBA history(32.5). That's second to only MJ. He took Kawhi/PG to 7 games in his first playoff appearance, and he was only what, 20? He eliminated the 1st seed Suns on their homecourt in the biggest margin of victory for a game 7 in NBA history. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the last several years, or basically since he's come in the the league.

What I said is that he’s an overrated regular season player that shouldn’t be one of the top contenders for MVP this season, but that he’s good enough in the playoffs, it’s basically guaranteed that he’ll have a better career than Kobe.

Understood, my mistake I obviously misread.

[Dirk]

I don’t think you can compare the game Kobe came into with the game Luka came into...

Kobe came in with hand checking tackle football basketball and playing MJ...Luka came in with no touching flag football basketball. Luka taking 8-10 3s a game. No one did that back then so scoring is inflated all around. This is the juice ball era in baseball - Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe’s level. Kobe is top what ever cause he won and won big multiple times - comparing the counting stats now and then seems disingenuous- otherwise we would have compared MJ to Wilt and wilt would he the goat - eras matter in the stats

You write that as if Kobe was even the best player on his team.

He was far and away the best player on multiple championship teams. Where do these trolls come from?

The user wrote "Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe's level", when in reality... Shaq was the Finals MVP of all the first "chips".

[Jaqua92]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

One game sample size vs. 76 games sample size over last 5 years.

Sixers fans love 1 game sample sizes though (see: Timberwolves game and ignoring the other 7 games vs. bottom teams in the NBA).

This is literally what you guys did to Jokic for years.


It is INDISPUTABLE fact that Embiid misses significantly more road games than home games.

It is also indisputable fact that Embiid tends to miss more games vs. Top 10 teams than any other (Top 11-20 or 21-30) teams.

The data supports that, unless Basketball Reference is 'fake news'?

Jokic fans love to make up fake reasons to bring down Embiid. If there was any legitimacy to this, there would be an article about it. Instead it's a bunch of internet nobodies, who have nothing better to do, trying to bring down the current MVP favorite, because their guy (Jokic) is having a down year, and currently not even close to the same amount of votes as Embiid.

So much for these threads not being toxic. ya'll come in here, and are literally making stuff up, and hoping **** sticks to the wall. You do realize none of you have a vote, and none of the voters will even bat an eye to this stuff. The only thing that will matter is if the MVP candidates don't meet the games played threshold.

[CobraCommander]

I don’t think you can compare the game Kobe came into with the game Luka came into...

Kobe came in with hand checking tackle football basketball and playing MJ...Luka came in with no touching flag football basketball. Luka taking 8-10 3s a game. No one did that back then so scoring is inflated all around. This is the juice ball era in baseball - Luka has to win chips to be on Kobe’s level. Kobe is top what ever cause he won and won big multiple times - comparing the counting stats now and then seems disingenuous- otherwise we would have compared MJ to Wilt and wilt would he the goat - eras matter in the stats

You write that as if Kobe was even the best player on his team.

He was far and away the best player on multiple championship teams. Where do these trolls come from?

Prisoner of the moments-

Kids that didn’t see Kobe in his prime

Or people that look at counting stats without context-

To be as good as Kobe you have to be the last man standing and have everyone else looking at you in deference- Kobe did that to the whole league...not alone mind you..but as the leader on winning teams.

If rings don’t matter to you guys - go watch the globe trotters - I hear they got a guy that can dunk from half court and another side show guy that never misses a free throw under handed blindfolded.

Skills are used to accomplish task- the task is winning rings not making buckets- Kobe got that point

[LordCovington33]

Embiid isn't even the Sixers most valuable player.

No disrespect intended, but this is without doubt the worst take I have read all day. The sixers will only go as far as Embiid takes them.

[Cubbies2120]

Embiid isn't even the Sixers most valuable player.

No disrespect intended, but this is without doubt the worst take I have read all day. The sixers will only go as far as Embiid takes them.

In the regular season, yes.

In the playoffs, he's better off dedicating himself to defense where he can be a monster, because we've seen that his offense falters in the playoffs, and it's impossible to give 100% on offense and defense all game. You can try, but the guy barely plays 35mpg in the playoffs (career average)...but he doesn't want his PPG to suffer so...I'm sure despite not getting the calls, he'll force up his shots.

[Stribor]

Most objective fan here I support and love Philly, but am from the Balkans and my favorite players are Jokic at first position and then Doncic.

In my opinion, this year, as it is going, is Embiids year. I think Jokic was robbed of MVP last year, but this year he is not as good as last three seasons. Doncic is rising, but Embiid is honestly on a different level this year, Having said that I would change Embiid MVP for a ring immediately.

In which way is Jokic having a down year? Reduced his turnover rate by 37% while keeping his assist rate similar and increasing usage rate by 11%, 6% improvement in BPM, 6% improvement in VORP, improved shotblocking rate, etc. Only difference is his free throw draw rate has cratered by 15% which means rather than some misses not counting due to fouls, he's instead missing them and dealing with tick-tack fouls on the other end where scrubs get the star whistle versus him.

Don't believe me? Check out the bloody arms against Brooklyn. Multiple cuts and abrasions... 5 free throws all game.

Ne zajebavam, ja mislim igra bolje nego zadnje godine...samo ne dobija faulove.

I'm not that much into stats, I am trying to watch as much as I can. So 6 complete Denver games, and 10 Philly that I watched this year. Jokic looked better to me last year, although it might be that the team completely bought his basketball now, so ythere is more and more actions in which he is just sepctator. Although it is possible I just saw this kind of games ..? He is still top 3 in my oppinion this year, and perhaps lower only because his players learned even better how to play the team ball, but Biid is different this year. Last year watching games it was clear to me that Jokic was better, this year it seems different, but not by a large margin (Jokic margin over Embiid last year was greater than Biid's margin this year).

Stvarno su i prosle godine igrali timski, ali ove godine to meni izgleda jos klasu vise. Malo im losije ide, jer neki kuze sto treba napraviti ali nisu Jokic, pa to ne ide toliko tecno ...

[Andri]

Not ready to call him a consistently good defender yet, but:

Read on Twitter

If he plays defense like that every night....he will get some first team mvp votes. The scoring and assist are nice but we expect that from Luka and 6 guys avg 30 so...it’s kinda what ever

and Jokic avg more assist and more rebounds and only 5 less points....but if Luka plays with this level of intensity on defense...well like he does against Booker and the Suns...that’s my mvp.

SGA plays defense - that’s what makes him better than Luka - but this Luka plays defense too

Scoring is what ever - take as many shots as he does you should lead the league in scoring...but beat them down at both ends like he did yesterday...that’s special

That’s reallly special - it’s the secret of greatness -

What?

5 ppg margin is huge. It still surprises me how people trivialize accomplishments. And the first sentence… if Luka would play like last night, he will be MVP almost unanimously.

What ever

[mpoo_sin]

Not ready to call him a consistently good defender yet, but:

Read on Twitter

If he plays defense like that every night....he will get some first team mvp votes. The scoring and assist are nice but we expect that from Luka and 6 guys avg 30 so...it’s kinda what ever

and Jokic avg more assist and more rebounds and only 5 less points....but if Luka plays with this level of intensity on defense...well like he does against Booker and the Suns...that’s my mvp.

SGA plays defense - that’s what makes him better than Luka - but this Luka plays defense too

Scoring is what ever - take as many shots as he does you should lead the league in scoring...but beat them down at both ends like he did yesterday...that’s special

That’s reallly special - it’s the secret of greatness -

What?

5 ppg margin is huge. It still surprises me how people trivialize accomplishments. And the first sentence… if Luka would play like last night, he will be MVP almost unanimously.

What ever

CobraCommander loves to secretly hate on Doncic. While always stating that he really likes him. ; )
For example when he says that Doncic is on the same level as "Booker and Tatum" and that SGA is a better player than Doncic/has surpassed him.
Or when he says stuff like above
"Eh, he scores 30+ every game even when he gets doubled all the time. But that is nothing special because we expect that from him."

Do not take what he does for granted. I often laugh when i see the daily top10 and there is some kind of allen oop pass from someone to someone at number 2 or 3 and you see those kind of passes at least 2 or 3 times per game from Doncic. Heck, a lot of his insane plays are not even recognized properly because "you expect that from him."

[Savage_Mode]

My current rankings after watching a lot of recent games:
1. Embiid
2. Giannis
3. Shai
4. Tie: Luka / Jokic (both below average defensive players)