Does literally anyone want John Collins

[Scoot McGroot]

I’d feel good about it if we were sending pieces and bring him here with the idea that either he or Barnes moves to the bench to provide a much needed second dart scorer for Monk and the second team.

Right now I feel that he would start ahead of Barnes but that could change as we see how things work out. But I do agree that a change of system/position in the lineup (fourth or fifth offensive guy in the starting lineup or 6/7/8 guy off the bench) would have a good chance of restoring his value to the team he is on and any 40% 3pt shooter in our offense is going to have a place. But fit wise it looks pretty good if you look at him as a longer and taller better rebounding stretch PF next to Sabonis. It certainly has the potential to improve the spot for us but the contract is kind of ugly.

One thing to be clear about though. Like it or not, he is NOT - a positive asset on that contract. You are seeing salary relief if you are willing to include a pick. Otherwise you are breaking that contract into smaller pieces and tanking. Those are the realistic options.

I would agree with this for Sacramento. I wouldn't mind to see how he goes with Mike Brown.
I can't see a trade without using Barnes though as Utah wouldn't want Davion in a Huerter/Davion trade so it might need to be a 3 teamer.

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

Feels like Sacramento is owed a decent first here?

[Colbinii]

I would agree with this for Sacramento. I wouldn't mind to see how he goes with Mike Brown.
I can't see a trade without using Barnes though as Utah wouldn't want Davion in a Huerter/Davion trade so it might need to be a 3 teamer.

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

Feels like Sacramento is owed a decent first here?

That, and getting expiring and 2nds for Collins seems like a big ask.

[shrink]

Awful teams are unwise to acquire guys like this, so why would a historically awful team do it? I really don't get the urgency to take the Pistons from 10 wins to 12 or 14 wins.

That's because you aren't a Wizard, Hornets, Spurs, or Trailblazers fan.

I know you guys are joking, but while us fans of losing teams don’t want to admit it (I’ve been a MIN a fan through many bad seasons!), there is a value to the organization to at least put a competitive product on the floor. Collins is clearly not worth his deal, but he is a legitimate basketball player. In addition, even if he isn’t the future, he knows enough to go to the right spots on the floor and do his job (albeit poorly), and that can help legitimate young talent learn in a system that is more competent.

I wouldn’t give up any value for Collins (and the Jazz wisely did not either), but a cheap, very young team who doesn’t have cap goals for a year or two might take a look.

[babyjax13]

I would agree with this for Sacramento. I wouldn't mind to see how he goes with Mike Brown.
I can't see a trade without using Barnes though as Utah wouldn't want Davion in a Huerter/Davion trade so it might need to be a 3 teamer.

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

Feels like Sacramento is owed a decent first here?

Well they'd get the bulk of whatever the value is for Huerter and I assume the filler would be exactly what has been discussed here, a mix of bad money and expirings.

[babyjax13]

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

Feels like Sacramento is owed a decent first here?

That, and getting expiring and 2nds for Collins seems like a big ask.

I don't expect a package of pure expiring contracts for Collins.

[Laimbeer]

Awful teams are unwise to acquire guys like this, so why would a historically awful team do it? I really don't get the urgency to take the Pistons from 10 wins to 12 or 14 wins.

That's because you aren't a Wizard, Hornets, Spurs, or Trailblazers fan.

I know you guys are joking, but while us fans of losing teams don’t want to admit it (I’ve been a MIN a fan through many bad seasons!), there is a value to the organization to at least put a competitive product on the floor. Collins is clearly not worth his deal, but he is a legitimate basketball player. In addition, even if he isn’t the future, he knows enough to go to the right spots on the floor and do his job (albeit poorly), and that can help legitimate young talent learn in a system that is more competent.

I wouldn’t give up any value for Collins (and the Jazz wisely did not either), but a cheap, very young team who doesn’t have cap goals for a year or two might take a look.

But if you pull in a couple guys like Collins and Sexton, that's 43M per - and a bad team might be able to overpay and get someone like OG for that or even less.

[Laimbeer]

Feels like Sacramento is owed a decent first here?

That, and getting expiring and 2nds for Collins seems like a big ask.

I don't expect a package of pure expiring contracts for Collins.

What is your take on Sexton?

[penbeast0]

The object of a rebuilding team is
(a) asset acquisition
(b) development of existing assets

In terms of asset acquisition, picking up a John Collins might help a little if you think you can rehab him for value but not if he is unlikely to ever be worth his contract. It can also hurt the tank in terms of getting draft value.

In terms of asset development, tanking can indeed hurt young player development. First, it might encourage them to play selfishly rather than learn team ball if there are not quality players around them. Second, it might make them want to leave the franchise so if you are tanking, you need to do it for only a couple of seasons before rebuilding. You can stretch this by trading your assets for future assets but that tends to downgrade the asset quality. Finally, tying up that money limits your flexibility for taking advantage of undervalued assets coming on the market or bring out your dead deals.

On the other hand, a John Collins can hurt the asset development process. First, like in Utah, he can be in the way of getting minutes for the assets you want to work with. Coaches are paid to win and should play the best player, not necessarily the best long term player. Second, if you are going to pay a Collins type player big money, you should try to make sure he brings the right culture. This was my main problem with the Jordan Poole acquisition for Washington. You don't want your big money guys to be selfish, have lazy practice habits, or not put forth effort on defense. The other players on the team learn the wrong lessons and apply them.

So, overall, while a John Collins type might be a good move for a young rebuilding team, I would be very hesitant about it. For him in particular, the negatives seem to outweigh the positives for a tanking or early rebuild team. Most people know this instinctively which is why most are looking for a good team that has a Collins shaped hole rather than a rebuild franchise.

[babyjax13]

That, and getting expiring and 2nds for Collins seems like a big ask.

I don't expect a package of pure expiring contracts for Collins.

What is your take on Sexton?

I'd trade him for expirings and a second or two. I'm not sure he's worth even that, though. Can score, horrid defender.

[bkohler]

I think that UTA should use Sexton, Olynyk, Clarkson to bring in some seconds and then use those seconds to offload Collins.

If any of those aforementioned players can bring in a protected first then that might be used as well.

[bkohler]

What about a straight Wiggins for Collins swap? Collins best days were when he had Trae setting him up and he gets Trae++++++ with Steph. Contracts are the same by year with Wiggins having a little bit longer one and UTA could use a real wing.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Some fans can be really impatient in thinking rookies have to play a lot of minutes right away. There is nothing wrong with bringing players along slowly and making them earn their playing time in their rookie season.

Utah should not be in a rush to declare the Collins experiment a failure. Certainly not to the point of spending assets to dump him.

At the very least, they should wait until the trade deadline when playoff teams with injuries could see Collins as a good option.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Some fans can be really impatient in thinking rookies have to play a lot of minutes right away. There is nothing wrong with bringing players along slowly and making them earn their playing time in their rookie season.

Utah should not be in a rush to declare the Collins experiment a failure. Certainly not to the point of spending assets to dump him.

At the very least, they should wait until the trade deadline when playoff teams with injuries could see Collins as a good option.

I mean, he also has just about the worst plus minus on the team and is getting minutes largely because of his contract instead of earning it, lol.

[OxAndFox]

I’d feel good about it if we were sending pieces and bring him here with the idea that either he or Barnes moves to the bench to provide a much needed second dart scorer for Monk and the second team.

Right now I feel that he would start ahead of Barnes but that could change as we see how things work out. But I do agree that a change of system/position in the lineup (fourth or fifth offensive guy in the starting lineup or 6/7/8 guy off the bench) would have a good chance of restoring his value to the team he is on and any 40% 3pt shooter in our offense is going to have a place. But fit wise it looks pretty good if you look at him as a longer and taller better rebounding stretch PF next to Sabonis. It certainly has the potential to improve the spot for us but the contract is kind of ugly.

One thing to be clear about though. Like it or not, he is NOT - a positive asset on that contract. You are seeing salary relief if you are willing to include a pick. Otherwise you are breaking that contract into smaller pieces and tanking. Those are the realistic options.

I would agree with this for Sacramento. I wouldn't mind to see how he goes with Mike Brown.
I can't see a trade without using Barnes though as Utah wouldn't want Davion in a Huerter/Davion trade so it might need to be a 3 teamer.

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

So on this and comments made would this be viable?

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion/Edwards/'24 Sacramento 2nd
in: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland

Det trades: Harris/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)
in: Huerter/Edwards

Utah trades: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland
in: Harris/Davion/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'24 Sacramento 2nd/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)

Sac: Take a gamble on Collins fitting in with Sabonis and gain a 1st they can use in a deal down the track. Would potentially open up the ability to trade 5 firsts for a superstar as early as the offseason.

Det: Upgrades the shooting with little assets and being only 25 and locked in to a reasonable contract for the next couple of years.

Utah: Gets off almost all of Collins' money while getting a look at Davion as well. They give up a 1st to do so, but gain some 2nds in the meantime as well.

[chrbal]

So on this and comments made would this be viable?

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion/Edwards/'24 Sacramento 2nd
in: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland

Det trades: Harris/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)
in: Huerter/Edwards

Utah trades: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland
in: Harris/Davion/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'24 Sacramento 2nd/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)

Sac: Take a gamble on Collins fitting in with Sabonis and gain a 1st they can use in a deal down the track. Would potentially open up the ability to trade 5 firsts for a superstar as early as the offseason.

Det: Upgrades the shooting with little assets and being only 25 and locked in to a reasonable contract for the next couple of years.

Utah: Gets off almost all of Collins' money while getting a look at Davion as well. They give up a 1st to do so, but gain some 2nds in the meantime as well.

Edited:

I’d like this better with Bagley and Wiseman (or Harris) going out

[babyjax13]

I would agree with this for Sacramento. I wouldn't mind to see how he goes with Mike Brown.
I can't see a trade without using Barnes though as Utah wouldn't want Davion in a Huerter/Davion trade so it might need to be a 3 teamer.

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

So on this and comments made would this be viable?

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion/Edwards/'24 Sacramento 2nd
in: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland

Det trades: Harris/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)
in: Huerter/Edwards

Utah trades: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland
in: Harris/Davion/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'24 Sacramento 2nd/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)

Sac: Take a gamble on Collins fitting in with Sabonis and gain a 1st they can use in a deal down the track. Would potentially open up the ability to trade 5 firsts for a superstar as early as the offseason.

Det: Upgrades the shooting with little assets and being only 25 and locked in to a reasonable contract for the next couple of years.

Utah: Gets off almost all of Collins' money while getting a look at Davion as well. They give up a 1st to do so, but gain some 2nds in the meantime as well.

Absolutely not trading a first to move Collins. I think you could turn Harris into Bagley and an expiring and send two seconds to Utah and other value to Sacramento. I'm not sure exactly how to balance that, but our picks are off the table.

[OxAndFox]

I don't think we'd mind kicking the tires on Davion.

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion
in: Collins, value

Team X trades: filler + 2nd(s) + value
in: Huerter

Utah trades: Collins
in: filler, Davion, 2nd(s)?

Really vague framework. I don't really want Huerter or like him for Utah but I think he fits a bunch of places that would value him.

So on this and comments made would this be viable?

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion/Edwards/'24 Sacramento 2nd
in: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland

Det trades: Harris/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)
in: Huerter/Edwards

Utah trades: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland
in: Harris/Davion/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'24 Sacramento 2nd/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)

Sac: Take a gamble on Collins fitting in with Sabonis and gain a 1st they can use in a deal down the track. Would potentially open up the ability to trade 5 firsts for a superstar as early as the offseason.

Det: Upgrades the shooting with little assets and being only 25 and locked in to a reasonable contract for the next couple of years.

Utah: Gets off almost all of Collins' money while getting a look at Davion as well. They give up a 1st to do so, but gain some 2nds in the meantime as well.

Absolutely not trading a first to move Collins. I think you could turn Harris into Bagley and an expiring and send two seconds to Utah and other value to Sacramento. I'm not sure exactly how to balance that, but our picks are off the table.

That's fair enough. The value coming back to Sacramento needs to be decent though in a Huerter/Collins swap. It's not going to be a 2nd or 2. And while Davion isn't much value, it's clear he is a good defender at this level and his offense would be better in a different system. Whether that is Utah or not, I'm not sure, just as Collins in Sacramento might not work.
The Jazz would be getting 1 good 2nd and 2 meh 2nds out of it.

If the 1sts are off the table the Jazz need to send a good asset player along with Collins to Sacramento to even it out and then you need to rework salary.

[babyjax13]

So on this and comments made would this be viable?

SAC trades: Huerter/Davion/Edwards/'24 Sacramento 2nd
in: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland

Det trades: Harris/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)
in: Huerter/Edwards

Utah trades: Collins/'27 1st from Cleveland
in: Harris/Davion/'24 2nd from Memphis or Washington (more favorable)/'24 Sacramento 2nd/'27 2nd from Brooklyn or Dallas (less favorable)

Sac: Take a gamble on Collins fitting in with Sabonis and gain a 1st they can use in a deal down the track. Would potentially open up the ability to trade 5 firsts for a superstar as early as the offseason.

Det: Upgrades the shooting with little assets and being only 25 and locked in to a reasonable contract for the next couple of years.

Utah: Gets off almost all of Collins' money while getting a look at Davion as well. They give up a 1st to do so, but gain some 2nds in the meantime as well.

Absolutely not trading a first to move Collins. I think you could turn Harris into Bagley and an expiring and send two seconds to Utah and other value to Sacramento. I'm not sure exactly how to balance that, but our picks are off the table.

That's fair enough. The value coming back to Sacramento needs to be decent though in a Huerter/Collins swap. It's not going to be a 2nd or 2. And while Davion isn't much value, it's clear he is a good defender at this level and his offense would be better in a different system. Whether that is Utah or not, I'm not sure, just as Collins in Sacramento might not work.
The Jazz would be getting 1 good 2nd and 2 meh 2nds out of it.

If the 1sts are off the table the Jazz need to send a good asset player along with Collins to Sacramento to even it out and then you need to rework salary.

Then frankly we'd just keep Collins. My thought was this would be Davion, bad salary, filler, and a 2nd or two on Utahs end while the rest goes to Sacramento. Or Sacramento could just keep Davion if that seems too rich.

[DanishLakerFan]

Maybe a deal with the Sixers. Tobias Harris for Collins and THT. Harris is fine, but the Sixers do have some depth at the wing and Collins would fit both as a 4 next to Embiid as well as a backup 5.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I would ponder something like Collins and Olynyk for CP3 and Kuminga. Something has to give to get our guards some more playing time. The more we see of Moody and Podz, the better they look. If I was in the front office, I'd be seriously looking at moving Klay, but he makes enough to make things tricky, and I don't think our front office is there yet.

I'd be very nervous about giving up the stability that CP3 brings, but clearly what we have now isn't working, so I might roll the dice that we could give more minutes to Podz and have things work out.