PG: Raptors blow out the Wizards. Improve to 3-8 in December

[Los_29]

And using per36 stats on a single quarter sample size lmao. And you chirp me for being coherent.

You called a 12/6 quarter on 66% shooting just "good" and unnecessary, and yet you are mocking me.

Have some self-awareness. Sheesh.

Siakam hate is hilarious lol I mean everyone needed a new target after FVV left I guess.

People just can’t be objective on here. 22/6/11 on great efficiency…”just an okay game.”

It looks like the new target is Poeltl unfortunately.

[Scase]

Barnes is having the better season but come on Pascal is still the superior scorer. Two players can average same ppg and one can still be a better scorer due to how he gets his shot, the shots he takes and how he is defended.

Pascal is currently still the better scorer and is defended as such.

Edit. Bam is averaging more points than Scottie/Pascal. Who do you think is the better scorer?

Scottie is putting up the same points on better efficiency from multiple places on the floor, he scores in a more diverse manner, that is a better scorer. Siakam routinely gets shut down against any half decent paint defence, Scottie does not, because he is capable of scoring from multiple places on the court.

I don't consider JJ reddick a great scorer, I consider him a 3pt shooter.

Siakam shot chart


Scottie shot chart


If you take away the inside game, Scottie can still score. If you take away the inside game for Siakam, he is dead weight. Yes, Siakam is a better ISO player, that's great for the total 48 ISO possessions he's had this season, out of the 479 FGAs this season.

Scottie is a WAY better 3pt shooter, and that has been great, since 162 of his total 476 FGA have been 3's. Scottie is flat out a more versatile scorer and more efficient. That is a better scorer to me, Scottie has shown many times in his career to be capable of taking over games, Siakam has shown many times in his career that he crumbles in the clutch because defences tighten up, and paint play is more difficult.

How have we all been watching him play for 9 years, and not gathered this? Siakam exploits weak paint defence, and bad teams, he is not a go to scorer.

Siakam clutch FG%
2022 36.2%
2021 40%
2020 35%

Getting a bucket means in ALL situations.

Siakam is literally superior everywhere outside of the 3 point shot.

Scottie without a 3 point shot is an inefficient player as well. I did not realize when comparing players we just take away their best trait and then conclude they suck?

As per Cleaning The Glass

Scottie - Siakam :
Rim 72% - 73%
Short mid 37% - 48%
Long Mid 49% -38%
Corner 3 37% - 33%
Non corner 40% - 22%

Yeah, superior everywhere huh? Take away Scotties 3pt and he is comparable to Siakam, take away Siakams inside game, and he's utterly useless on the court.


This isn't about "take away their best trait", it's about variety and the ability to still be effective when defences focus. If you want to make the argument that they are equally gifted scorers, I wouldn't agree, but I can see the rationale. But trying to say that Siakam is some how significantly superior despite, you know, reality and statistics, no I can't agree with that at all.

If Siakam was so much better as you claim, he should be performing that much better. Yet he doesn't. The greatest 3pt shooter in history doesn't amount to jack squat if he only takes 1 shot a game.

[YogurtProducer]

this pitting one guy against another is straight up junior high sh t. so dumb.

Agreed. Both are great players. You can acknowledge they don't really fit together and still be reasonable in your takes.

Beautiful, you agree with

pitting one guy against another is straight up junior high sh t

While also being the one to specifically be the one bringing up Barnes in a discussion that was 100% only about Siakam.

Right, we didn't need Pascal's 22 points and 11 assists tonight

To be fair, against Washington we probably didn’t

It is hilarious seeing all the hype for Scottie and how amazing he is when Siakam is casually doing almost the exact same stuff for 5 seasons now and Siakam is “unnecessary”.

As far as I am concerned, outside of purposely getting worse, a below average offensive team needs its best scorer

That's some grade A hypocrisy, at least you are consistent, I'll give you that.

You are attributing other peoples quotes to me.

[HumbleRen]

I guess if you don't fundamentally understand scoring you could think that.

Scottie has shot the ball better than Siakam this season, but that is about it when it comes to scoring. Most of Scottie's threes have been open (and by most, I mean 156 of his 158 attempts this year) and being able to shoot an open 3 is not what really I mean by "scoring ability". By literally all metrics, Siakam is a better scorer.

ISO - Siakam 0.96ppp Barnes 0.67ppp
PNR Ball handler - Siakam 0.66ppp Barnes 0.74ppp
Post up - Siakam 1.04ppp Barnes 0.94ppp

Siakam is just a superior guy to go out and get a bucket. Barnes is great at a lot of things Siakam is lesserd at, but he is just simply not the superior scorer.

Then maybe he should be going out and getting more buckets, strange that the clearly better scorer, that he can only manage 0.6ppg more than the clearly inferior player.

Barnes is having the better season but come on Pascal is still the superior scorer. Two players can average same ppg and one can still be a better scorer due to how he gets his shot, the shots he takes and how he is defended.

Pascal is currently still the better scorer and is defended as such.

Edit. Bam is averaging more points than Scottie/Pascal/Butler. Who do you think is the better scorer?

Respect Bam, he's the best player out of Scottie/Siakam.

[Scase]

Agreed. Both are great players. You can acknowledge they don't really fit together and still be reasonable in your takes.

Beautiful, you agree with

pitting one guy against another is straight up junior high sh t

While also being the one to specifically be the one bringing up Barnes in a discussion that was 100% only about Siakam.

To be fair, against Washington we probably didn’t

It is hilarious seeing all the hype for Scottie and how amazing he is when Siakam is casually doing almost the exact same stuff for 5 seasons now and Siakam is “unnecessary”.

As far as I am concerned, outside of purposely getting worse, a below average offensive team needs its best scorer

That's some grade A hypocrisy, at least you are consistent, I'll give you that.

You are attributing other peoples quotes to me.

So by quoting you directly, I'm attributing other peoples quotes to you? That's some grade 2 reading comprehension.

You LITERALLY said

It is hilarious seeing all the hype for Scottie and how amazing he is when Siakam is casually doing almost the exact same stuff for 5 seasons now and Siakam is “unnecessary”.

You brought up Scottie, no one else did. Just you. The forum has a QUOTE button, it allows you to directly QUOTE what someone said. I QUOTED you using the QUOTE button. Should I grab you a screenshot while I'm at it?

[YogurtProducer]

Beautiful, you agree with



While also being the one to specifically be the one bringing up Barnes in a discussion that was 100% only about Siakam.



That's some grade A hypocrisy, at least you are consistent, I'll give you that.

You are attributing other peoples quotes to me.

So by quoting you directly, I'm attributing other peoples quotes to you? That's some grade 2 reading comprehension.

You LITERALLY said

It is hilarious seeing all the hype for Scottie and how amazing he is when Siakam is casually doing almost the exact same stuff for 5 seasons now and Siakam is “unnecessary”.

You brought up Scottie, no one else did. Just you. The forum has a QUOTE button, it allows you to directly QUOTE what someone said. I QUOTED you using the QUOTE button. Should I grab you a screenshot while I'm at it?

I never pitted them against each other. I for one like both of those players and do not resort to calling one of them "unnecessary" after having an undeniably good game.

You are the only one talking **** about one of our players.

[Scase]

You are attributing other peoples quotes to me.

So by quoting you directly, I'm attributing other peoples quotes to you? That's some grade 2 reading comprehension.

You LITERALLY said

It is hilarious seeing all the hype for Scottie and how amazing he is when Siakam is casually doing almost the exact same stuff for 5 seasons now and Siakam is “unnecessary”.

You brought up Scottie, no one else did. Just you. The forum has a QUOTE button, it allows you to directly QUOTE what someone said. I QUOTED you using the QUOTE button. Should I grab you a screenshot while I'm at it?

I never pitted them against each other. I for one like both of those players and do not resort to calling one of them "unnecessary" after having an undeniably good game.

You are the only one talking **** about one of our players.

Yes look at you playing catch up. I commented on one player, I never mentioned anyone else. Siakam is redundant on this team, I am not a fan of the Toronto Siakams, I am a Raptors fan.

I don't dislike any of them, because I'm an adult and they are athletes playing for a team. I am here to watch my team succeed as much as possible, and I think that the team would be better off moving him for better fitting pieces. Stop getting caught in your feelings, they aren't your friends.

If trading Scottie, or anyone else on this team gave us a much better long term outlook, I'd be down for trading them too. He is the odd man out, simple as that.

[WaltFrazier]

this pitting one guy against another is straight up junior high sh t. so dumb.

All of the big three had good games. And we won by 30. Is it wrong to be happy about that?

[YogurtProducer]

So by quoting you directly, I'm attributing other peoples quotes to you? That's some grade 2 reading comprehension.

You LITERALLY said



You brought up Scottie, no one else did. Just you. The forum has a QUOTE button, it allows you to directly QUOTE what someone said. I QUOTED you using the QUOTE button. Should I grab you a screenshot while I'm at it?

I never pitted them against each other. I for one like both of those players and do not resort to calling one of them "unnecessary" after having an undeniably good game.

You are the only one talking **** about one of our players.

Yes look at you playing catch up. I commented on one player, I never mentioned anyone else. Siakam is redundant on this team, I am not a fan of the Toronto Siakams, I am a Raptors fan.

I don't dislike any of them, because I'm an adult and they are athletes playing for a team. I am here to watch my team succeed as much as possible, and I think that the team would be better off moving him for better fitting pieces. Stop getting caught in your feelings, they aren't your friends.

If trading Scottie, or anyone else on this team gave us a much better long term outlook, I'd be down for trading them too. He is the odd man out, simple as that.

Oh man those goalposts have shiiiiiffffftttteeeeed. No one is in this thread discussing the long-term outlook of the Siakam fit in Toronto. In fact, neither were you before this post. Siakams current ability =/= Siakams fit on this team going forward

You seem to be way to caught up in the future and potential and have clouded your ability to discuss what is happening right now currently. We all can go back and see your posts in which you are calling a 22/6/11 60+TS% game a nothingburger. We also all see you hyping up Scottie and OG's lesser performances as "great".

Just give it up man. You made a bad post and just blindly hated on Siakam for no reason. Just move on.

[YogurtProducer]

this pitting one guy against another is straight up junior high sh t. so dumb.

All of the big three had good games. And we won by 30. Is it wrong to be happy about that?

Apparently. And I guess as a result you are not true Raptors fan, but truly just a fan of the Toronto Siakams.

[WaltFrazier]

this pitting one guy against another is straight up junior high sh t. so dumb.

All of the big three had good games. And we won by 30. Is it wrong to be happy about that?

Apparently. And I guess as a result you are not true Raptors fan, but truly just a fan of the Toronto Siakams.

And I love how, even though it's a game of runs and only one guy can shoot at a time, if Scottie scores a bunch in a quarter it's great, but if Pascal then gets hot, oh he's stat padding.

[HiJiNX]

Then maybe he should be going out and getting more buckets, strange that the clearly better scorer, that he can only manage 0.6ppg more than the clearly inferior player.

Barnes is having the better season but come on Pascal is still the superior scorer. Two players can average same ppg and one can still be a better scorer due to how he gets his shot, the shots he takes and how he is defended.

Pascal is currently still the better scorer and is defended as such.

Edit. Bam is averaging more points than Scottie/Pascal/Butler. Who do you think is the better scorer?

Respect Bam, he's the best player out of Scottie/Siakam.

You think everybody is better than our players.

[WaltFrazier]

Where is the Celtics GT?

[Madhouse]

Then maybe he should be going out and getting more buckets, strange that the clearly better scorer, that he can only manage 0.6ppg more than the clearly inferior player.

Barnes is having the better season but come on Pascal is still the superior scorer. Two players can average same ppg and one can still be a better scorer due to how he gets his shot, the shots he takes and how he is defended.

Pascal is currently still the better scorer and is defended as such.

Edit. Bam is averaging more points than Scottie/Pascal/Butler. Who do you think is the better scorer?

Respect Bam, he's the best player out of Scottie/Siakam.

best defender, worst offensive player.

he is somewhere between Scottie and Pascal

[Scase]

I never pitted them against each other. I for one like both of those players and do not resort to calling one of them "unnecessary" after having an undeniably good game.

You are the only one talking **** about one of our players.

Yes look at you playing catch up. I commented on one player, I never mentioned anyone else. Siakam is redundant on this team, I am not a fan of the Toronto Siakams, I am a Raptors fan.

I don't dislike any of them, because I'm an adult and they are athletes playing for a team. I am here to watch my team succeed as much as possible, and I think that the team would be better off moving him for better fitting pieces. Stop getting caught in your feelings, they aren't your friends.

If trading Scottie, or anyone else on this team gave us a much better long term outlook, I'd be down for trading them too. He is the odd man out, simple as that.

Oh man those goalposts have shiiiiiffffftttteeeeed. No one is in this thread discussing the long-term outlook of the Siakam fit in Toronto. In fact, neither were you before this post. Siakams current ability =/= Siakams fit on this team going forward

Jesus Christ man, if you are going to come into a thread dick swinging, take 5min out of your day to read the previous posts to understand the context of the convo. Everyone was talking about the lineup changes, my comment was pointing out that the lineup changes just showed that Siakam is not needed for those types of lineups to work.

This is literally all I was saying. But no, you and everyone else that feels the need to blindly defend players came in and started harping on how he had a "great game". Because you can't allow your bestie to have anyone dare besmirch them.

I was discussing Siakams fit and how he isn't needed on this team. You decided to bring Scottie into this. If you can't take the prerequisite time to read the convo and understand what is being talked about, keep your comments to yourself and stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Scase]

All of the big three had good games. And we won by 30. Is it wrong to be happy about that?

Apparently. And I guess as a result you are not true Raptors fan, but truly just a fan of the Toronto Siakams.

And I love how, even though it's a game of runs and only one guy can shoot at a time, if Scottie scores a bunch in a quarter it's great, but if Pascal then gets hot, oh he's stat padding.

I never claimed he was stat padding, I simply said that his performance was not integral to the team winning, he is not needed for the offence Darko ran that game.

Scottie and OG both put up numbers in the first half to give the team the lead, getting a team started and out to a lead, especially with this team and how terribly they start games, is more important than 3rd quarter points when you are already up 10.

If you disagree, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All I'm saying, is that the offence/lineup we ran in the first half which was noticeably different than what we have done all year, succeeded despite Siakam being a non factor. I don't think he is needed to run the system Darko wants to, and if he was replaced by a scoring guard instead, the team would perform much better.

I imagine it wouldn't be too controversial to say, that we don't need 2 PFs with overlapping skills, and one of them being a worse version of the other.

Again, I'm not attacking Siakam, any more than saying Schroder should be a bench PG is attacking him, or that Jak's inability to shoot 3's clogs the paint. These are fit issues, I think Siakam would be a great fit for the Pacers or the Kings, but not here.

These are basketball players, they aren't people that need randoms on the internet to come defend their honour. He's not a bad person, he's not a bad player, he's a bad fit for this team. This roster is bad, and his poor fit contributes to it, y'all can put down the shields, he's gonna be ok.

[WaltFrazier]

Apparently. And I guess as a result you are not true Raptors fan, but truly just a fan of the Toronto Siakams.

And I love how, even though it's a game of runs and only one guy can shoot at a time, if Scottie scores a bunch in a quarter it's great, but if Pascal then gets hot, oh he's stat padding.

I never claimed he was stat padding, I simply said that his performance was not integral to the team winning, he is not needed for the offence Darko ran that game.

Scottie and OG both put up numbers in the first half to give the team the lead, getting a team started and out to a lead, especially with this team and how terribly they start games, is more important than 3rd quarter points when you are already up 10.

If you disagree, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All I'm saying, is that the offence/lineup we ran in the first half which was noticeably different than what we have done all year, succeeded despite Siakam being a non factor. I don't think he is needed to run the system Darko wants to, and if he was replaced by a scoring guard instead, the team would perform much better.

I imagine it wouldn't be too controversial to say, that we don't need 2 PFs with overlapping skills, and one of them being a worse version of the other.

Again, I'm not attacking Siakam, any more than saying Schroder should be a bench PG is attacking him, or that Jak's inability to shoot 3's clogs the paint. These are fit issues, I think Siakam would be a great fit for the Pacers or the Kings, but not here.

These are basketball players, they aren't people that need randoms on the internet to come defend their honour. He's not a bad person, he's not a bad player, he's a bad fit for this team. This roster is bad, and his poor fit contributes to it, y'all can put down the shields, he's gonna be ok.

The stat padding comment is something I've seen a lot in game threads, I didn't mean it was by you.

More than points, I think Pascal's 11 assists last game show why he's not "unnecessary". He's a good and willing passer, which to me makes him a good fit. The financial situation is one thing but basketball wise I think he's a valuable part of this team.

[HumbleRen]

[youtube][/youtube]

Barnes is having the better season but come on Pascal is still the superior scorer. Two players can average same ppg and one can still be a better scorer due to how he gets his shot, the shots he takes and how he is defended.

Pascal is currently still the better scorer and is defended as such.

Edit. Bam is averaging more points than Scottie/Pascal/Butler. Who do you think is the better scorer?

Respect Bam, he's the best player out of Scottie/Siakam.

You think everybody is better than our players.

That’s because most of the guys that get brought up are.

[YogurtProducer]

Yes look at you playing catch up. I commented on one player, I never mentioned anyone else. Siakam is redundant on this team, I am not a fan of the Toronto Siakams, I am a Raptors fan.

I don't dislike any of them, because I'm an adult and they are athletes playing for a team. I am here to watch my team succeed as much as possible, and I think that the team would be better off moving him for better fitting pieces. Stop getting caught in your feelings, they aren't your friends.

If trading Scottie, or anyone else on this team gave us a much better long term outlook, I'd be down for trading them too. He is the odd man out, simple as that.

Oh man those goalposts have shiiiiiffffftttteeeeed. No one is in this thread discussing the long-term outlook of the Siakam fit in Toronto. In fact, neither were you before this post. Siakams current ability =/= Siakams fit on this team going forward

Jesus Christ man, if you are going to come into a thread dick swinging, take 5min out of your day to read the previous posts to understand the context of the convo. Everyone was talking about the lineup changes, my comment was pointing out that the lineup changes just showed that Siakam is not needed for those types of lineups to work.

This is literally all I was saying. But no, you and everyone else that feels the need to blindly defend players came in and started harping on how he had a "great game". Because you can't allow your bestie to have anyone dare besmirch them.

I was discussing Siakams fit and how he isn't needed on this team. You decided to bring Scottie into this. If you can't take the prerequisite time to read the convo and understand what is being talked about, keep your comments to yourself and stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

Forget Scottie, you made the horrible comment that Siakam didn’t actually have a good game.

You lost all creditability right there.

[bape_lovers]

i thought i misread the date

Where is the Celtics GT?