Peak only - Kawhi vs Kobe

[One_and_Done]

Come on bro, Kawhi in 2017 smokes any year Kobe had.

Kawhi in 2017
Regular season:
1888 pts / 430reb / 260 ast / 133 stl / 55 blk

Playoffs:
332 pts / 93 reb / 55 ast / 20 stl / 6 blk

Total:
2220 pts / 523 reb / 315 ast/ 153 stl/ 61 blk
.489 FG

Kobe 2009
Regular season:
2201 pts / 429 reb / 399 ast /120 stl / 37 blk
Playoffs:
695 pts/ 123 reb /126 ast / 38 stl / 21 blk
Total:
2896 pts / 552 reb / 525 ast / 158 stl / 58 blk
.464

Kobe has
+676 pts, +29 reb, +210 ast, +5 stl, -3 blk , -2.5 FG%
Theres an argument that kawhi's efficiency and defense trump kobes volume and playmaking, but its definitely close

some will say, kobe played more minutes and more games! but thats the point... Kobe, MJ, whatever big name player you compare to leonard, destroys his output over an entire season because he has never played an entire season. he is only comparable if you start cutting down to months or playoff runs or series etc...

since some people have mentioned jordan:

1990
Regular season:
2753 pts / 565 reb / 519 ast / 227 stl / 54 blk
Playoffs:
587 pts / 115 reb / 109 ast / 45 stl / 14 blk
Total:
3340 pts / 680 reb / 628 ast / 272 stl / 68 blk
.524 FG%

this one is not even close for either K

I cited Kawhi's per 100 stats for 2017 earlier. Use those.

[nikster]

Cool. The thread is about who was better at their peak though.

What was Leonards peak? A year lol?

I think a peak is by definition a year.

It is the absolute best period (season, or playoffs) of a player's prime.

If the discussion was about 'primes', then that would usually be a 3-5 year period.

Peak is the best period of the prime.

Thing is Kawhi doesn't really even have a full healtht season at his peak. 2017 he went down in the conference finals. 2019 he was load managed all year and was still looking hobbled by the team he reached the finals

[One_and_Done]

You can't punish a guy for making it to the WCFs and getting cheap shot. If someone hit Kobe with a crowbar in the finals it wouldn't indicate he lacked durability that season.

[God Squad]

I'm actually surprised it's this close. Kawhi isn't going to shoot you "out" of games like Kobe would regularly do. Then there's the whole lockdown defender aspect to Kawhi's game.

If it's only "Peak", then Kawhi by a fair margin.

[Gus McCrae]

Kobe

[Rust_Cohle]

Kawhi all day, everyday

[maradro]

You can't punish a guy for making it to the WCFs and getting cheap shot. If someone hit Kobe with a crowbar in the finals it wouldn't indicate he lacked durability that season.

except kawhi in 2017 only played 2474 minutes, 2903 with playoffs. for most star players that is a low number.

and even before the cheap shot, he was already hobbling. already had missed game 6 vs houston.

and well kobe has been targeted too. jalen rose did the same as zaza in the 2000 finals, kobe missed a game, came back and won game 4 with shaq fouled out.

[discconnected]

Kawhi and it isn't even close. In his prime season, his offensive efficiency was way better than Kobe's, and on top of that, he was the best defensive player in the nba at his position.

The fact that this poll is soo close, had made me question my loyalty to this forum.

[Tomtolbert]

Offense - slight edge to Kobe
Defense - significant edge to Kawhi
Overall - Kawhi

[dockingsched]

Two things, it’s insane to me how people will call Kobe’s offensive peak just “slightly better” than Kawhi. Kawhi never came close to what Kobe was doing during those Smush Parker/Chucky Atkins years.

And it’s insane to me how people will just totally minimize “peak” to like one season or one playoff run to accommodate Kawhi’s total lack of ever actually being available to carry a team over an extended time period.

[dhsilv2]

Offense is close. Defense is Kawhi by a MILE.

Do you consider Kobe's peak like 06-08 or 01-03? Because I'm not sure 01-03 kobe wasn't on Raptor's Leonard's level on defense. The gap there is offense. Leonard was just better.

[dhsilv2]

Peak Kawhi is probably 2017, but he couldn’t even beat out Harden or Westbrook for MVP? Are those guys better than peak Kobe? What a joke.

That was before people realized stat padding triple doubles weren't that impressive. Westbrook and Harden were dropping triple doubles left and right and people became enamored with that forgetting there are two sides of the court. Kawhi was robbed of the MVP in 2017

Harden was leading his teams to top seeds. Lets not lump Westbrook in with Harden. They weren't doing remotely the same thing. I'd add in Harden even on defense become a very ok defender once they realized he was better guarding the paint than chasing guards.

[dhsilv2]

Boi is ya sick?

Kobe and it ain't even close!

Peak easily Kawhi, career Kobe and it ain't close.

Nah give me peak Kobe.

More rings and the better player.

Y'all must forgot who Kobe is.

#MambaMentality

You can only win 1 ring in your peak season....you can't have two. That's not a peak...

[dhsilv2]

I do not think Kobe could have done what Kawhi did in 2019. Kawhis peak, as short as it is, was GOAT tier. He just didn't do it long enough to be in the convo and that's why no one will say Kawhi had the better career.

It wasn't, and Kawhi was better in 2017 than 2019.

Ya he was better in the regular season and the short playoff run in 2017 but him being able to finish the job in 2019 while going up against a stacked Sixers/Bucks squad was better.

Raptors were underdogs in 3 of the 4 series. And yes, they were underdogs against the Warriors even without KD where they should have won that series in 5 games with Klay there

Man, that raptors team was comically underrated. No way in hell the warriors realistically were winning in 5 with Klay 100% healthy. That raptors team beyond Leonard was a defensive force with shooters and quality everywhere.

[dhsilv2]

Kobe's D was always overrated, comically so at times, but more than that the era he played in hid how much worse his D was than Kawhi's. In Kobe's day you could chill on D mostl while guys played iso ball. Today you have to move all over the court like a demon non-stop to cover guys. Kobe's lazy approach would have seen his team get cooked.

This is an extremely underrated aspect of the whole argument for Kobe.

"Kawhi's era is more efficient" - This is a product of offenses getting more complex & innovative, meaning they're harder to guard.

Now, imagine Kobe having to expend all that energy on the defensive end of the ball...instead of guarding one guy 1 on 1, or chilling like you said...you're having to jump all around the court (or give up ez buckets).

Much of this is offset by today's players playing less minutes per game and in total.

[Yoshun]

If we're talking about one season here, probably Kawhi, but what's the point of that? Kobe has had 10 times the career. Kawhi could have been an all time great, he just wasn't.

[dhsilv2]

Kobe is quicker, more dynamic off the ball, and a way better playmaker.

Kawhi is so much bigger. He's way stronger, way longer... just physically in a different category. I also prefer Kawhi's shot selection. He's a bit deliberate, but he gets to his best spots to take his best shots and no one can stop. Kobe thought every shot was his best shot. Kawhi edges Kobe out in terms of scoring efficiency (though Kobe has some peak seasons where it's closer than you'd think). Kawhi has superior shooting range.

Kawhi has a big defensive edge regardless, but it's important to remember peak Kawhi isn't peak defensive Kawhi. His best defensive seasons happen before his best offensive seasons. You can compromise and pick 2017, I suppose.

Kobe's edge over Kawhi is longevity. Especially for the playoffs, it's hard to look at any numbers and pick a Kobe season over a peak Kawhi one. But over their best years, Kobe is still playing twice as many playoff games.

Kawhi for peak but he doesn't touch Kobe's career.

Umm way stronger in terms of guys bouncing off him on drives sure, otherwise I don't see it, your other arguments other are valid, I was thought if Kobe choose a sport like tennis or boxing he would be closer to the goat discussion that belief would be spectacular for a sport that's 1 on 1 , I him 5th on my list, a lot of Kobe's percentage is based on him believing he could make any shot he took, he was the best bad shot maker in nba history, there's no qualms about that, the playmaking gets severely underrated, because a lot people see him as a chucker, when people say oh he got lucky to play with Shaq yes there was luck involved but Shaq was lucky to play with Kobe aswell. I always hoped Kwahi would be able to stay health, it's just so unfortunate it has broken down.

Leonard's hand strength on both sides of the ball is simply on another level as well. Obviously hand size plays a role here, but that's part of being strong (having a bigger frame/better leverage). If Leonard gets his hands on a ball, it's just his. Be that on offense or defense. You're not knocking that ball out once his hand is on it. That was a strength of MJ as well, which is one of the reasons Kobe just was never going to reach MJ's level.

[DC_Melo]

Kobe peaked high, Kawhi peaked higher

Wishing Kobe’s helicopter did too. Rip Mamba and Gianna

[dhsilv2]

And it’s insane to me how people will just totally minimize “peak” to like one season or one playoff run to accommodate Kawhi’s total lack of ever actually being available to carry a team over an extended time period.

That's the universal definition of what the term means.

[bargs4mvp]

Kawhi


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