2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

[sol537]

We should just sit tight and get a stopgap center like Gafford or Capela, but if we had to make a big move, Lavine is the guy who's available that would fit us best on the court...and with how badly the Bulls have botched his trade value, he'll be available for a lot less than a guy who can score 25pts on a TS over 60 without being a ballhog or undermining your defense, should be.

Plus the bulls have some other pieces that would be nice fits for us...PW / AC / J.Carter...so we could probably swing something like this without including any future picks:

CHI: Black + Barrett + Sims + Fournier + Jeffries + NYK/DAL FRP (both?)
NYK: Lavine + Caruso + P.Williams + W.Carter
ORL: Quickley + DiVincenzo + Drummond + Arcidiacono

Brunson | Caruso | McBride
Lavine | Grimes
P.Williams | Hart
Randle
(Robinson) | Hartenstein/W.Carter | Gibson

What if you simplify it so that Lavine (who I don't love), Caruso (I do love), Williams (I like), and Drummond (nice stop gap) come to NY with IQ, RJ, Fournier and pieces go to CHI... Maybe even toss in Mitch Rob for some additional compensation coming back our way.

[cgf]

We should just sit tight and get a stopgap center like Gafford or Capela, but if we had to make a big move, Lavine is the guy who's available that would fit us best on the court...and with how badly the Bulls have botched his trade value, he'll be available for a lot less than a guy who can score 25pts on a TS over 60 without being a ballhog or undermining your defense, should be.

Plus the bulls have some other pieces that would be nice fits for us...PW / AC / J.Carter...so we could probably swing something like this without including any future picks:

CHI: Black + Barrett + Sims + Fournier + Jeffries + NYK/DAL FRP (both?)
NYK: Lavine + Caruso + P.Williams + W.Carter
ORL: Quickley + DiVincenzo + Drummond + Arcidiacono

Brunson | Caruso | McBride
Lavine | Grimes
P.Williams | Hart
Randle
(Robinson) | Hartenstein/W.Carter | Gibson

What if you simplify it so that Lavine (who I don't love), Caruso (I do love), Williams (I like), and Drummond (nice stop gap) come to NY with IQ, RJ, Fournier and pieces go to CHI... Maybe even toss in Mitch Rob for some additional compensation coming back our way.

I'd rather role with Sims than hope teams forget that Drummond can't move his feet.

[KnixinSix]

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I haven't watched Dejounte Murray play all that much. Is his defense that much better than IQ's? Is it because he's taller with a longer wingspan? IQ is a decent, but short, defender. His offensive skills are far better than Murray's. Would they be better off starting IQ or would this trade be what helps put their defense into high gear?

Right or wrong, Thibs is borderline allergic to small ball. He reluctantly plays it. You see him constantly switching out the Quick/JB combo even when they are cooking. They didn't pony up for Quick this offseason. They signed a taller guard in DDV as a role player.

Murray is Thibs Elfrid Peyton but with an actual bonafide offensive game. Do you remember Thibs love affair with that guy?! Its pretty clear what Thibs gravitates to at this point. This team is already committed to a smaller guard in Brunson. Thibs is going to want to add as much size around him in the backcourt as possible.

[KnixinSix]

We should just sit tight and get a stopgap center like Gafford or Capela, but if we had to make a big move, Lavine is the guy who's available that would fit us best on the court...and with how badly the Bulls have botched his trade value, he'll be available for a lot less than a guy who can score 25pts on a TS over 60 without being a ballhog or undermining your defense, should be.

Plus the bulls have some other pieces that would be nice fits for us...PW / AC / J.Carter...so we could probably swing something like this without including any future picks:

CHI: Black + Barrett + Sims + Fournier + Jeffries + NYK/DAL FRP (both?)
NYK: Lavine + Caruso + P.Williams + W.Carter
ORL: Quickley + DiVincenzo + Drummond + Arcidiacono

Brunson | Caruso | McBride
Lavine | Grimes
P.Williams | Hart
Randle
(Robinson) | Hartenstein/W.Carter | Gibson

Interesting pieces. While many trades we throw out there don't seem to capture what Thibs system needs/wants I think this one does. Granted LaVine is not a great defender but Thibs surely will like the size at 2. Couple that with excellent defenders in Caruso and Williams and this makes sense as something they could consider. I don't think they trade DDV though (who they just signed this offseason) and it would more likely be Grimes going out instead.

[KnicksGadfly]

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I haven't watched Dejounte Murray play all that much. Is his defense that much better than IQ's? Is it because he's taller with a longer wingspan? IQ is a decent, but short, defender. His offensive skills are far better than Murray's. Would they be better off starting IQ or would this trade be what helps put their defense into high gear?

Right or wrong, Thibs is borderline allergic to small ball. He reluctantly plays it. You see him constantly switching out the Quick/JB combo even when they are cooking. They didn't pony up for Quick this offseason. They signed a taller guard in DDV as a role player.

Murray is Thibs Elfrid Peyton but with an actual bonafide offensive game. Do you remember Thibs love affair with that guy?! Its pretty clear what Thibs gravitates to at this point. This team is already committed to a smaller guard in Brunson. Thibs is going to want to add as much size around him in the backcourt as possible.

In this case, it's important to not see Thibs as a long-term piece. He's good, and he's added stability and competency to this franchise, but there's gonna be a day when he's not here.

[KnixinSix]

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Don't always agree with Troy but on this one I do. Murray smells like EXACTLY what Thibodeau wants to put around Brunson. Grimes hasn't become the guy we wanted. Quickley is a very small 2 to complement the smaller Brunson at the 1. Some coaches don't mind small ball. Thibs wants size and most here that know Basketball and Thibs know this as well. This may be a clue why Mitchell never happened too. The value we placed on him for Thibs system wasnt great enough.


Murray will be Thibs Elfrid Payton with an offensive game at the 2. A legit backup PG to Brunson too. Now you sub out RJ for a rugged, more offensively efficient off ball wing, ideally a better offensive 3 and D player than Reggie Bullock and you have an ideal roster to execute Thibs system.

[KnixinSix]

I haven't watched Dejounte Murray play all that much. Is his defense that much better than IQ's? Is it because he's taller with a longer wingspan? IQ is a decent, but short, defender. His offensive skills are far better than Murray's. Would they be better off starting IQ or would this trade be what helps put their defense into high gear?

Right or wrong, Thibs is borderline allergic to small ball. He reluctantly plays it. You see him constantly switching out the Quick/JB combo even when they are cooking. They didn't pony up for Quick this offseason. They signed a taller guard in DDV as a role player.

Murray is Thibs Elfrid Peyton but with an actual bonafide offensive game. Do you remember Thibs love affair with that guy?! Its pretty clear what Thibs gravitates to at this point. This team is already committed to a smaller guard in Brunson. Thibs is going to want to add as much size around him in the backcourt as possible.

In this case, it's important to not see Thibs as a long-term piece. He's good, and he's added stability and competency to this franchise, but there's gonna be a day when he's not here.

You are thinking that way but what gives you evidence that Rose and company feel the same? To me this front office seems to be pretty committed to Thibs. If they bring in Murray that would further cement that bc he fits the Thibs system (in theory) to a T.

[WargamesX]

I think a easier trade is

Knicks trade: IQ, Hart, Fournier, Mavs 2024, Knicks 2025, Detroit 2024 2nd rounder (pick 31)
Knicks get: Dejuante Murray, Deandre Hunter

Starters
Brunson
Murray
Hunter
Randle
Mitch

Bench
DDV
Grimes
RJ
IHart

On the low IHart’s production has gone down, and the Knicks are just too small with him as a backup forward.

If anything I would say maybe consider moving RJ into a sixth man role because he’s shown he can lead an offense by himself in spurts. Also keeping Grimes for lineups of Murray/Grimes for defense and potentially Brunson/DDV to increase pace. Plus the Knicks go from a small team to a average height team in one trade. Then minus the centers Thibs could focus on minutes for the other 7 guys and can even make in game adjustments.

I can't see the Knicks trading any of Brunson's boys right now

And RJ has more value than Hart, so I think the Hawks would prefer that

We may have to swap IQ for Grimes in my initial offer, but I would rather not, and if we did that, I would want to give up less picks

Doubt Knicks trade one of the Nova boys. They also signed both Hart and DDV just this offseason. They are building around Brunson. Their handling of IQ and Grimes makes it kinda likely either of them are more expendable. RJ has been dangled before. Those are the guys that are most likely to be traded, with an outside chance on Randle (switched agents) or Mitchell Robinson.

They traded Ryan Archie before and Brunson understood. Hart is going to make 18 Mil next year and he is averaging 7/6/3, which is down from his career high half season of 10/7/4 last season. Plus we keep seeing over and over again he is just too short to be a real back up forward for either RJ or Randle. That doesn’t change if the Knicks bring in Hunter for RJ. Hart is still too short to be a reliable 3rd wing. He could be a third guard, but DDV is a better third guard, and just based on money on the low Grimes will be too if he can get his head right.

That said I don’t see the Knicks trading RJ. Hot or Cold he’s shown over and over again he has no problem changing his game to be a third option, potentially a fourth option, and has done well with the bench unit. If the Knicks move RJ into the 6th man role then he’s a better player than Hart and IQ because you can build a bench system around him. Especially if they remake the bench unit to be DDV and Grimes as shooters around RJ to help space the floor for him.

I think that version of the Knicks (if healthy) is a contender next season. It fixes the height issue, fixes the scoring issue, fixes the bench. The Knicks could probably draft a defensive 4/small ball 5 because unlike if they keep Hart over RJ, the bench unit has enough scoring you can draft for defense only.

[KnicksGadfly]

Right or wrong, Thibs is borderline allergic to small ball. He reluctantly plays it. You see him constantly switching out the Quick/JB combo even when they are cooking. They didn't pony up for Quick this offseason. They signed a taller guard in DDV as a role player.

Murray is Thibs Elfrid Peyton but with an actual bonafide offensive game. Do you remember Thibs love affair with that guy?! Its pretty clear what Thibs gravitates to at this point. This team is already committed to a smaller guard in Brunson. Thibs is going to want to add as much size around him in the backcourt as possible.

In this case, it's important to not see Thibs as a long-term piece. He's good, and he's added stability and competency to this franchise, but there's gonna be a day when he's not here.

You are thinking that way but what gives you evidence that Rose and company feel the same? To me this front office seems to be pretty committed to Thibs. If they bring in Murray that would further cement that bc he fits the Thibs system (in theory) to a T.

My evidence is that the front office is even more committed to hunting stars. If we're aiming for the top guys, most of whom are load managed, then Thibs is not the right guy. Also, fair or not, Thibs has the worst rep among the coaches in the NBA.

My second piece of evidence is that they almost threw Thibs under the bus a year ago to save their jobs.

Third, I'm not sure what Murray has to do with it. If they make a trade, then we can discuss, but it's just a rumor at this point.

[Juco24]

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Don't always agree with Troy but on this one I do. Murray smells like EXACTLY what Thibodeau wants to put around Brunson. Grimes hasn't become the guy we wanted. Quickley is a very small 2 to complement the smaller Brunson at the 1. Some coaches don't mind small ball. Thibs wants size and most here that know Basketball and Thibs know this as well. This may be a clue why Mitchell never happened too. The value we placed on him for Thibs system wasnt great enough.


Murray will be Thibs Elfrid Payton with an offensive game at the 2. A legit backup PG to Brunson too. Now you sub out RJ for a rugged, more offensively efficient off ball wing, ideally a better offensive 3 and D player than Reggie Bullock and you have an ideal roster to execute Thibs system.

My takeaway is a little different.... I think it's huge that they're meeting but I think it could impact Lavine more than Murray. I saw on a Bulls site that there was talk of RJ and Fournier for Lavine and Drummond with knicks attaching a pick

[The Lamma]

RJ is utter garbage. Trade his crappy inefficient ass for OG, one or both of WAS or DET FRPs and include dropping the lawsuit as a sweetener. Even if we lose OG in the offseason, at least we will have RJ off our books.

Any offer made to Toronto will have to be made through the postal system, since they sure as hell aint pickin up the phone mid lawsuit

[KnixinSix]

I can't see the Knicks trading any of Brunson's boys right now

And RJ has more value than Hart, so I think the Hawks would prefer that

We may have to swap IQ for Grimes in my initial offer, but I would rather not, and if we did that, I would want to give up less picks

Doubt Knicks trade one of the Nova boys. They also signed both Hart and DDV just this offseason. They are building around Brunson. Their handling of IQ and Grimes makes it kinda likely either of them are more expendable. RJ has been dangled before. Those are the guys that are most likely to be traded, with an outside chance on Randle (switched agents) or Mitchell Robinson.

They traded Ryan Archie before and Brunson understood. Hart is going to make 18 Mil next year and he is averaging 7/6/3, which is down from his career high half season of 10/7/4 last season. Plus we keep seeing over and over again he is just too short to be a real back up forward for either RJ or Randle. That doesn’t change if the Knicks bring in Hunter for RJ. Hart is still too short to be a reliable 3rd wing. He could be a third guard, but DDV is a better third guard, and just based on money on the low Grimes will be too if he can get his head right.

That said I don’t see the Knicks trading RJ. Hot or Cold he’s shown over and over again he has no problem changing his game to be a third option, potentially a fourth option, and has done well with the bench unit. If the Knicks move RJ into the 6th man role then he’s a better player than Hart and IQ because you can build a bench system around him. Especially if they remake the bench unit to be DDV and Grimes as shooters around RJ to help space the floor for him.

I think that version of the Knicks (if healthy) is a contender next season. It fixes the height issue, fixes the scoring issue, fixes the bench. The Knicks could probably draft a defensive 4/small ball 5 because unlike if they keep Hart over RJ, the bench unit has enough scoring you can draft for defense only.

Hart is a Thibs player. They just committed to him this offseason. RJ was offered up already in trades.


With Murray, Brunson, Randle and possibly a fourth high scorer in another trade RJs inefficient scoring will not be needed, I am not stating how I think they should do it but moreso what it seems the organization is thinking/likely to do.

[DOT]

People always project their feelings onto the FO in order to give their ideas more of a sense of legitimacy, when in reality it's always just them saying what they want to do, but instead of having the confidence to just say that, they launder it by pretending like it's what the FO wants to do.

[RHODEY]

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I haven't watched Dejounte Murray play all that much. Is his defense that much better than IQ's? Is it because he's taller with a longer wingspan? IQ is a decent, but short, defender. His offensive skills are far better than Murray's. Would they be better off starting IQ or would this trade be what helps put their defense into high gear?

Murray is way more athletic and can finish well at the rim. His mid range and even 3poit shooting is surprisingly good - he's improved there. But I don't want to make this a versus because I think this is about them using IQ for another big piece while addressing our lack of consistent, complementary and 2 way starter talent at the 2.

[RHODEY]

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Don't always agree with Troy but on this one I do. Murray smells like EXACTLY what Thibodeau wants to put around Brunson. Grimes hasn't become the guy we wanted. Quickley is a very small 2 to complement the smaller Brunson at the 1. Some coaches don't mind small ball. Thibs wants size and most here that know Basketball and Thibs know this as well. This may be a clue why Mitchell never happened too. The value we placed on him for Thibs system wasnt great enough.


Murray will be Thibs Elfrid Payton with an offensive game at the 2. A legit backup PG to Brunson too. Now you sub out RJ for a rugged, more offensively efficient off ball wing, ideally a better offensive 3 and D player than Reggie Bullock and you have an ideal roster to execute Thibs system.

My takeaway is a little different.... I think it's huge that they're meeting but I think it could impact Lavine more than Murray. I saw on a Bulls site that there was talk of RJ and Fournier for Lavine and Drummond with knicks attaching a pick

I hope the play is to get Murray without giving up RJ or IQ...then we make a swing for a true blue chip (or close to) with those two and picks thrown in. There's no market for Lavine (except maybe Lakers) and there a reason for that. I dont want him and certainly wouldnt throw in a pick for him....

I agree with Troy (below) that the ideal semi realistic center trade for us would be Daniel Gafford...but I don't like the idea of using Fournier's contract to get him.

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[WargamesX]

Doubt Knicks trade one of the Nova boys. They also signed both Hart and DDV just this offseason. They are building around Brunson. Their handling of IQ and Grimes makes it kinda likely either of them are more expendable. RJ has been dangled before. Those are the guys that are most likely to be traded, with an outside chance on Randle (switched agents) or Mitchell Robinson.

They traded Ryan Archie before and Brunson understood. Hart is going to make 18 Mil next year and he is averaging 7/6/3, which is down from his career high half season of 10/7/4 last season. Plus we keep seeing over and over again he is just too short to be a real back up forward for either RJ or Randle. That doesn’t change if the Knicks bring in Hunter for RJ. Hart is still too short to be a reliable 3rd wing. He could be a third guard, but DDV is a better third guard, and just based on money on the low Grimes will be too if he can get his head right.

That said I don’t see the Knicks trading RJ. Hot or Cold he’s shown over and over again he has no problem changing his game to be a third option, potentially a fourth option, and has done well with the bench unit. If the Knicks move RJ into the 6th man role then he’s a better player than Hart and IQ because you can build a bench system around him. Especially if they remake the bench unit to be DDV and Grimes as shooters around RJ to help space the floor for him.

I think that version of the Knicks (if healthy) is a contender next season. It fixes the height issue, fixes the scoring issue, fixes the bench. The Knicks could probably draft a defensive 4/small ball 5 because unlike if they keep Hart over RJ, the bench unit has enough scoring you can draft for defense only.

Hart is a Thibs player. They just committed to him this offseason. RJ was offered up already in trades.


With Murray, Brunson, Randle and possibly a fourth high scorer in another trade RJs inefficient scoring will not be needed, I am not stating how I think they should do it but moreso what it seems the organization is thinking/likely to do.

I don’t know how the org feels like doing I am just talking basketball. Hart is about to be overpaid based on his production, on the low he was really good defensively last year and he just doesn’t seem to have that defensive spark this year. Also DDV makes both him and IQ (who is trying to be paid based on his potential instead of his production,) tradeable.

It’s true RJ was offered in a trade for Mitchell only and they then paid him based on his production. His worse seasons have been better than IQ’s best seasons and IQ wants essentially the same amount in salary. Also why would the Knicks trade for a fourth scorer when on the low they should try to just fix the holes on the roster with this trade (like overall size issue) and keep RJ as a fourth scorer/6th man?

Hunter as a D&3 combo forward cost the same as Hart will next season. Also on the low Hart’s best position would be combo guard, but DDV can cover that spot for a lower cost. Hart’s value is up right now and Grimes value is low so they shouldn’t trade Grimes now either. The only real knock on Hunter is health, but on the low the only reason they could probably even trade Hart for him is because of his health issues. If a real superstar like Embiid or Booker does become available the Knicks could then easily package RJ and Murray for them.

[KnixinSix]

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Don't always agree with Troy but on this one I do. Murray smells like EXACTLY what Thibodeau wants to put around Brunson. Grimes hasn't become the guy we wanted. Quickley is a very small 2 to complement the smaller Brunson at the 1. Some coaches don't mind small ball. Thibs wants size and most here that know Basketball and Thibs know this as well. This may be a clue why Mitchell never happened too. The value we placed on him for Thibs system wasnt great enough.


Murray will be Thibs Elfrid Payton with an offensive game at the 2. A legit backup PG to Brunson too. Now you sub out RJ for a rugged, more offensively efficient off ball wing, ideally a better offensive 3 and D player than Reggie Bullock and you have an ideal roster to execute Thibs system.

My takeaway is a little different.... I think it's huge that they're meeting but I think it could impact Lavine more than Murray. I saw on a Bulls site that there was talk of RJ and Fournier for Lavine and Drummond with knicks attaching a pick

With the smaller and defensively challenged Brunson and the way Thibs likes to construct a roster, I would be surprised if Levine Is the preferred larger 2 guard VS Murray. Now if Caruso and/or Williams was involved, that might change things a bit. Also keep in mind Lavines contract is basically double Murray s and he also much more injury prone too.

[RHODEY]

Don't always agree with Troy but on this one I do. Murray smells like EXACTLY what Thibodeau wants to put around Brunson. Grimes hasn't become the guy we wanted. Quickley is a very small 2 to complement the smaller Brunson at the 1. Some coaches don't mind small ball. Thibs wants size and most here that know Basketball and Thibs know this as well. This may be a clue why Mitchell never happened too. The value we placed on him for Thibs system wasnt great enough.


Murray will be Thibs Elfrid Payton with an offensive game at the 2. A legit backup PG to Brunson too. Now you sub out RJ for a rugged, more offensively efficient off ball wing, ideally a better offensive 3 and D player than Reggie Bullock and you have an ideal roster to execute Thibs system.

My takeaway is a little different.... I think it's huge that they're meeting but I think it could impact Lavine more than Murray. I saw on a Bulls site that there was talk of RJ and Fournier for Lavine and Drummond with knicks attaching a pick

With the smaller and defensively challenged Brunson and the way Thibs likes to construct a roster, I would be surprised if Levine Is the preferred larger 2 guard VS Murray. Now if Caruso and/or Williams was involved, that might change things a bit. Also keep in mind Lavines contract is basically double Murray s and he also much more injury prone too.

Right the advantage to Murray is that he's cheaper than Donovan or Lavine, while being a better fit. How much cheaper remains to be seen...

[WargamesX]

My takeaway is a little different.... I think it's huge that they're meeting but I think it could impact Lavine more than Murray. I saw on a Bulls site that there was talk of RJ and Fournier for Lavine and Drummond with knicks attaching a pick

With the smaller and defensively challenged Brunson and the way Thibs likes to construct a roster, I would be surprised if Levine Is the preferred larger 2 guard VS Murray. Now if Caruso and/or Williams was involved, that might change things a bit. Also keep in mind Lavines contract is basically double Murray s and he also much more injury prone too.

Right the advantage to Murray is that he's cheaper than Donovan or Lavine, while being a better fit. How much cheaper remains to be seen...

I think the trade might be bigger than we fans expect. Mostly because the Knicks have an incentive to not only switch the roster up, they have more draft picks than roster spots available. Meanwhile, the Hawks in general should be looking to get picks back and switch their own roster to better fit Snyder.

It’s one of the reasons why I am a proponent of trying to fix as many issues as possible with this trade. The team they have after it should be a team they are comfortable with long term until a superstar becomes available which could be seasons from now.

[KnixinSix]

With the smaller and defensively challenged Brunson and the way Thibs likes to construct a roster, I would be surprised if Levine Is the preferred larger 2 guard VS Murray. Now if Caruso and/or Williams was involved, that might change things a bit. Also keep in mind Lavines contract is basically double Murray s and he also much more injury prone too.

Right the advantage to Murray is that he's cheaper than Donovan or Lavine, while being a better fit. How much cheaper remains to be seen...

I think the trade might be bigger than we fans expect. Mostly because the Knicks have an incentive to not only switch the roster up, they have more draft picks than roster spots available. Meanwhile, the Hawks in general should be looking to get picks back and switch their own roster to better fit Snyder.

It’s one of the reasons why I am a proponent of trying to fix as many issues as possible with this trade. The team they have after it should be a team they are comfortable with long term until a superstar becomes available which could be seasons from now.

Wargames- I am not opposed to your thought process provided if it was LaVine it'd involve one or more strong fitting Thibs style rugged defensive players like Caruso and Pat Williams. But multiple reports are saying the LaVine market is barren. We would need to get him at our price for it to be worth it. That means with that big contract and his injury prone nature, we'd need one or both of Pat Williams and/or Caruso coming back and not have to give up all that much to do so. That contract is a borderline albatross especially with the looming CBA coming up.

Interestingly both are repped by Rich Paul and Rich Paul suddenly wants a 'clear the air' meeting with us. He knows he needs us in the bidding for either one or both of LaVine and Murray. Truthfully I bet our preference is Murray but depending on cost and the secondary pieces involved in the trade that could change things.