2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

[KnixinSix]

My takeaway is a little different.... I think it's huge that they're meeting but I think it could impact Lavine more than Murray. I saw on a Bulls site that there was talk of RJ and Fournier for Lavine and Drummond with knicks attaching a pick

With the smaller and defensively challenged Brunson and the way Thibs likes to construct a roster, I would be surprised if Levine Is the preferred larger 2 guard VS Murray. Now if Caruso and/or Williams was involved, that might change things a bit. Also keep in mind Lavines contract is basically double Murray s and he also much more injury prone too.

Right the advantage to Murray is that he's cheaper than Donovan or Lavine, while being a better fit. How much cheaper remains to be seen...

My educated guess is Thibs is 'feeling' an uneasiness about how to play defense next to Brunson in the backcourt right now. Grimes and DDV while a bit taller and good defenders are not true top level starting 2 guards (who are consistent scorers night in and night out) nor can they back up the 1 at a high level.

Murray is all those things in 1 package. Let's be honest, LaVine is not a strong complementary defender to Brunson at all. Murray would be. While the pure dynamic scoring edge goes to LaVine, almost every other check box goes to Murray.

My best guess is (on their thinking not mine) for plan A guys are some form of: Murray, OG (obviously the law suit is a big x factor) and maybe Markenen (if truly available)

Plan B guys would be: LaVine, Donovon Mitchell, then the more complemnary guys like Caruso, Pat Williams etc.

[WargamesX]

Right the advantage to Murray is that he's cheaper than Donovan or Lavine, while being a better fit. How much cheaper remains to be seen...

I think the trade might be bigger than we fans expect. Mostly because the Knicks have an incentive to not only switch the roster up, they have more draft picks than roster spots available. Meanwhile, the Hawks in general should be looking to get picks back and switch their own roster to better fit Snyder.

It’s one of the reasons why I am a proponent of trying to fix as many issues as possible with this trade. The team they have after it should be a team they are comfortable with long term until a superstar becomes available which could be seasons from now.

Wargames- I am not opposed to your thought process provided if it was LaVine it'd involve one or more strong fitting Thibs style rugged defensive players like Caruso and Pat Williams. But multiple reports are saying the LaVine market is barren. We would need to get him at our price for it to be worth it. That means with that big contract and his injury prone nature, we'd need one or both of Pat Williams and/or Caruso coming back and not have to give up all that much to do so. That contract is a borderline albatross especially with the looming CBA coming up.

Interestingly both are repped by Rich Paul and Rich Paul suddenly wants a 'clear the air' meeting with us. He knows he needs us in the bidding for either one or both of LaVine and Murray. Truthfully I bet our preference is Murray but depending on cost and the secondary pieces involved in the trade that could change things.

I was talking about a Murray trade being more than we expect. I don’t think Lavine goes to the Knicks. I think he is Laker’s bound. His outside shooting the exact type of third piece Lebron/AD needs right now. Plus Lavine doesn’t want to play for Thibs again.

[KnixinSix]

They traded Ryan Archie before and Brunson understood. Hart is going to make 18 Mil next year and he is averaging 7/6/3, which is down from his career high half season of 10/7/4 last season. Plus we keep seeing over and over again he is just too short to be a real back up forward for either RJ or Randle. That doesn’t change if the Knicks bring in Hunter for RJ. Hart is still too short to be a reliable 3rd wing. He could be a third guard, but DDV is a better third guard, and just based on money on the low Grimes will be too if he can get his head right.

That said I don’t see the Knicks trading RJ. Hot or Cold he’s shown over and over again he has no problem changing his game to be a third option, potentially a fourth option, and has done well with the bench unit. If the Knicks move RJ into the 6th man role then he’s a better player than Hart and IQ because you can build a bench system around him. Especially if they remake the bench unit to be DDV and Grimes as shooters around RJ to help space the floor for him.

I think that version of the Knicks (if healthy) is a contender next season. It fixes the height issue, fixes the scoring issue, fixes the bench. The Knicks could probably draft a defensive 4/small ball 5 because unlike if they keep Hart over RJ, the bench unit has enough scoring you can draft for defense only.

Hart is a Thibs player. They just committed to him this offseason. RJ was offered up already in trades.


With Murray, Brunson, Randle and possibly a fourth high scorer in another trade RJs inefficient scoring will not be needed, I am not stating how I think they should do it but moreso what it seems the organization is thinking/likely to do.

I don’t know how the org feels like doing I am just talking basketball. Hart is about to be overpaid based on his production, on the low he was really good defensively last year and he just doesn’t seem to have that defensive spark this year. Also DDV makes both him and IQ (who is trying to be paid based on his potential instead of his production,) tradeable.

It’s true RJ was offered in a trade for Mitchell only and they then paid him based on his production. His worse seasons have been better than IQ’s best seasons and IQ wants essentially the same amount in salary. Also why would the Knicks trade for a fourth scorer when on the low they should try to just fix the holes on the roster with this trade (like overall size issue) and keep RJ as a fourth scorer/6th man?

Hunter as a D&3 combo forward cost the same as Hart will next season. Also on the low Hart’s best position would be combo guard, but DDV can cover that spot for a lower cost. Hart’s value is up right now and Grimes value is low so they shouldn’t trade Grimes now either. The only real knock on Hunter is health, but on the low the only reason they could probably even trade Hart for him is because of his health issues. If a real superstar like Embiid or Booker does become available the Knicks could then easily package RJ and Murray for them.

Truthfully I think a big part of the 'Hart' issue is just a log jammed backcourt. I think he is still part of their bigger plan and they know they have to address this log jam. This is clearly Brunson's team now and going after his Nova buddies (right or wrong) seems more than just coincidence.

Personally I bet Atl would LOVE to get IQ for Murray seeing how Trae and Murray don't fit well together. They also want out of the 4 year contract. However could we pull off giving them Grimes, Fournier (possibly another player) plus picks for Murray which would save IQ (and Rj) to be flipped in another trade?

And...What's our competition? Are the Lakers a threat for Murray too? If they are then it probably will cost us IQ to beat them out .

[KnixinSix]

I think the trade might be bigger than we fans expect. Mostly because the Knicks have an incentive to not only switch the roster up, they have more draft picks than roster spots available. Meanwhile, the Hawks in general should be looking to get picks back and switch their own roster to better fit Snyder.

It’s one of the reasons why I am a proponent of trying to fix as many issues as possible with this trade. The team they have after it should be a team they are comfortable with long term until a superstar becomes available which could be seasons from now.

Wargames- I am not opposed to your thought process provided if it was LaVine it'd involve one or more strong fitting Thibs style rugged defensive players like Caruso and Pat Williams. But multiple reports are saying the LaVine market is barren. We would need to get him at our price for it to be worth it. That means with that big contract and his injury prone nature, we'd need one or both of Pat Williams and/or Caruso coming back and not have to give up all that much to do so. That contract is a borderline albatross especially with the looming CBA coming up.

Interestingly both are repped by Rich Paul and Rich Paul suddenly wants a 'clear the air' meeting with us. He knows he needs us in the bidding for either one or both of LaVine and Murray. Truthfully I bet our preference is Murray but depending on cost and the secondary pieces involved in the trade that could change things.

I was talking about a Murray trade being more than we expect. I don’t think Lavine goes to the Knicks. I think he is Laker’s bound. His outside shooting the exact type of third piece Lebron/AD needs right now. Plus Lavine doesn’t want to play for Thibs again.

Ahhhh gotcha now. Then we are definitely more in agreement on potential knick thinking...What do you think are some of the other potential pieces? You mentioned Hunter thats an interesting one. I just don't think the Knicks would exhaust both IQ and RJ for Hunter and Murray. I think one of them sure (plus other players and picks) but not both.

[Jeffrey]

I'm looking at everyone's trade ideas and including mine in regards to OG. Why are we giving up so much for an expiring contract even though we are interested in re-signing him? Most expiring contracts in the NBA, you don't give up that much. James Harden's trade was an outlier and even then they didn't give up Mann or whoever else they wanted.

[KnixinSix]

I'm looking at everyone's trade ideas and including mine in regards to OG. Why are we giving up so much for an expiring contract even though we are interested in re-signing him? Most expiring contracts in the NBA, you don't give up that much. James Harden's trade was an outlier and even then they didn't give up Mann or whoever else they wanted.

Hardens value has dropped quite a bit since the Nets aquired him. Hes got attitude issues, is in the twilight and doesn't play defense.

OG is in his prime. He also switched to CAA which gives us a big leg up in re-signing him. Ultimately, I don't think he costs the moon to trade for but it'll cost something decent.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

With the smaller and defensively challenged Brunson and the way Thibs likes to construct a roster, I would be surprised if Levine Is the preferred larger 2 guard VS Murray. Now if Caruso and/or Williams was involved, that might change things a bit. Also keep in mind Lavines contract is basically double Murray s and he also much more injury prone too.

Right the advantage to Murray is that he's cheaper than Donovan or Lavine, while being a better fit. How much cheaper remains to be seen...

My educated guess is Thibs is 'feeling' an uneasiness about how to play defense next to Brunson in the backcourt right now. Grimes and DDV while a bit taller and good defenders are not true top level starting 2 guards (who are consistent scorers night in and night out) nor can they back up the 1 at a high level.

Murray is all those things in 1 package. Let's be honest, LaVine is not a strong complementary defender to Brunson at all. Murray would be. While the pure dynamic scoring edge goes to LaVine, almost every other check box goes to Murray.

My best guess is (on their thinking not mine) for plan A guys are some form of: Murray, OG (obviously the law suit is a big x factor) and maybe Markenen (if truly available)

Plan B guys would be: LaVine, Donovon Mitchell, then the more complemnary guys like Caruso, Pat Williams etc.

LaVine is more like Plan Z than Plan B.

[cgf]

CHI in: Barrett + Houstan + Fournier + 24 DAL/NYK FRP + DET FRP
CHI out: Lavine + P.Williams

NYK in: Lavine + P.Williams + W.Carter
NYK out: Barrett + DiVincenzo + Sims + Fournier + 24 NYK FRP + 24 DAL FRP + DET FRP

ORL in: Gafford + T.Jones + DiVincenzo
ORL out: W.Carter + Fultz + Houstan + 25 DEN FRP

WSH in: Sims + Fultz + 24 DAL/NYK FRP + 25 DEN FRP
WSH out: Gafford + T.Jones


Brunson | Quickley | McBride
Lavine | Grimes
P.Williams | Hart
Randle
(Robinson) | Hartenstein/W.Carter | Gibson

[nykballa2k4]

https://deadspin.com/kevin-durant-bradley-beal-devin-booker-phoenix-suns-nba-1851124374

Durant left one failed experiment for another. If the rest of the Suns can’t pull things together, he will once again be asking to leave.

So what's the trade look like?

RJ, Grimes, IQ, Fournier, 4FRP, 3 swaps?

[KnixinSix]

I think the trade might be bigger than we fans expect. Mostly because the Knicks have an incentive to not only switch the roster up, they have more draft picks than roster spots available. Meanwhile, the Hawks in general should be looking to get picks back and switch their own roster to better fit Snyder.

It’s one of the reasons why I am a proponent of trying to fix as many issues as possible with this trade. The team they have after it should be a team they are comfortable with long term until a superstar becomes available which could be seasons from now.

Wargames- I am not opposed to your thought process provided if it was LaVine it'd involve one or more strong fitting Thibs style rugged defensive players like Caruso and Pat Williams. But multiple reports are saying the LaVine market is barren. We would need to get him at our price for it to be worth it. That means with that big contract and his injury prone nature, we'd need one or both of Pat Williams and/or Caruso coming back and not have to give up all that much to do so. That contract is a borderline albatross especially with the looming CBA coming up.

Interestingly both are repped by Rich Paul and Rich Paul suddenly wants a 'clear the air' meeting with us. He knows he needs us in the bidding for either one or both of LaVine and Murray. Truthfully I bet our preference is Murray but depending on cost and the secondary pieces involved in the trade that could change things.

I was talking about a Murray trade being more than we expect. I don’t think Lavine goes to the Knicks. I think he is Laker’s bound. His outside shooting the exact type of third piece Lebron/AD needs right now. Plus Lavine doesn’t want to play for Thibs again.

Wargames I looked deeper into Hunter and I really think you are on to something. While Hunter has been decent he has fallen short of their high expectations of him when they signed him to that 4 year/90M deal.

Both him and Murray on paper seem like much much better fits in a Thibs system than Atlanta.

They also cost 45-50M a year in salary combined against their cap combined for the next 4 years. It seems in theory we would be great trade partners.

What combination would it take ? Im guessing one not both of RJ or IQ and then a Grimes or a Mitchell Robinson and a FRP or 2. Then take whatever is left over add a FRP or 2 and trade for OG.

Dont know if Knicks do it but Im up to trade Hart in this scenario to either Atl or Tor....


Rough minutes distribution:

Robinson (28), Hartenstein (20)

Randle (33), OG(15)

OG(17), Hunter(28), DDV (3)

Murray (23), DDV (25)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)


Much much better fitting pieces in a Thibs system to put around Randle and Brunson. DDV gets minutes now too. We have a rugged backup to Randle that plays elite D and can play at the 3 too (and even spot at the 5).

[KnixinSix]

https://deadspin.com/kevin-durant-bradley-beal-devin-booker-phoenix-suns-nba-1851124374

So what's the trade look like?

RJ, Grimes, IQ, Fournier, 4FRP, 3 swaps?

Booker is the guy you give them BOTH RJ and IQ and a couple FRPs for. They get more depth and we get the perfect 2 guard to complement Brunson with. He is also CAA. Durant is a very good fit with RJ and IQ. Grimes and 2 FRPs picks then go to Toronto (close to their previous asking price of 3FRPs) for OG

Again much stronger fitting pieces in a Thibs system around JB and JR


Rough minutes distribution:

Hartenstein (30), OG (8), Sims (10)

Randle (34), OG (14)

OG (12), Hart(30), DDV (6)

Booker (23), DDV (25)

Brunson (34), Booker (10), McBride (4)

[cgf]

Wargames- I am not opposed to your thought process provided if it was LaVine it'd involve one or more strong fitting Thibs style rugged defensive players like Caruso and Pat Williams. But multiple reports are saying the LaVine market is barren. We would need to get him at our price for it to be worth it. That means with that big contract and his injury prone nature, we'd need one or both of Pat Williams and/or Caruso coming back and not have to give up all that much to do so. That contract is a borderline albatross especially with the looming CBA coming up.

Interestingly both are repped by Rich Paul and Rich Paul suddenly wants a 'clear the air' meeting with us. He knows he needs us in the bidding for either one or both of LaVine and Murray. Truthfully I bet our preference is Murray but depending on cost and the secondary pieces involved in the trade that could change things.

I was talking about a Murray trade being more than we expect. I don’t think Lavine goes to the Knicks. I think he is Laker’s bound. His outside shooting the exact type of third piece Lebron/AD needs right now. Plus Lavine doesn’t want to play for Thibs again.

Wargames I looked deeper into Hunter and I really think you are on to something. While Hunter has been decent he has fallen short of their high expectations of him when they signed him to that 4 year/90M deal.

Both him and Murray on paper seem like much much better fits in a Thibs system than Atlanta.

They also cost 45-50M a year in salary combined against their cap combined for the next 4 years. It seems in theory we would be great trade partners.

What combination would it take ? Im guessing one not both of RJ or IQ and then a Grimes or a Mitchell Robinson and a FRP or 2. Then take whatever is left over add a FRP or 2 and trade for OG.

Dont know if Knicks do it but Im up to trade Hart in this scenario to either Atl or Tor....


Rough minutes distribution:

Robinson (28), Hartenstein (20)

Randle (33), OG(15)

OG(17), Hunter(28), DDV (3)

Murray (23), DDV (25)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)


Much much better fitting pieces in a Thibs system to put around Randle and Brunson. DDV gets minutes now too. We have a rugged backup to Randle that plays elite D and can play at the 3 too (and even spot at the 5).

Murray is a career 34.1% 3pt shooter...Hart is a career 34.9% guy and as a knick Julius has shot 33.7% from 3...who has shot 34.4, 32.7, & 31.7% from 3 the past 3 seasons.

Dejounte is off to a hot start this season...shooting almost 1% over league average...but he's a terrible 3pt shooter for a guard and its not like he's stopping anybody in Atlanta, so why would he make more of a defensive impact for us?

Murray's just a bad target for this team. If you want to bolster our defense we need to get a stopgap center so we stop getting killed in the non-Hartenstein minutes.

[Juco24]

And I see folks talking about Lavines contract... the way RJ is playing... I'm not sure his contract is easily movable at this point. IJS

[KnixinSix]

I was talking about a Murray trade being more than we expect. I don’t think Lavine goes to the Knicks. I think he is Laker’s bound. His outside shooting the exact type of third piece Lebron/AD needs right now. Plus Lavine doesn’t want to play for Thibs again.

Wargames I looked deeper into Hunter and I really think you are on to something. While Hunter has been decent he has fallen short of their high expectations of him when they signed him to that 4 year/90M deal.

Both him and Murray on paper seem like much much better fits in a Thibs system than Atlanta.

They also cost 45-50M a year in salary combined against their cap combined for the next 4 years. It seems in theory we would be great trade partners.

What combination would it take ? Im guessing one not both of RJ or IQ and then a Grimes or a Mitchell Robinson and a FRP or 2. Then take whatever is left over add a FRP or 2 and trade for OG.

Dont know if Knicks do it but Im up to trade Hart in this scenario to either Atl or Tor....


Rough minutes distribution:

Robinson (28), Hartenstein (20)

Randle (33), OG(15)

OG(17), Hunter(28), DDV (3)

Murray (23), DDV (25)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)


Much much better fitting pieces in a Thibs system to put around Randle and Brunson. DDV gets minutes now too. We have a rugged backup to Randle that plays elite D and can play at the 3 too (and even spot at the 5).

Murray is a career 34.1% 3pt shooter...Hart is a career 34.9% guy and as a knick Julius has shot 33.7% from 3...who has shot 34.4, 32.7, & 31.7% from 3 the past 3 seasons.

Dejounte is off to a hot start this season...shooting almost 1% over league average...but he's a terrible 3pt shooter for a guard and its not like he's stopping anybody in Atlanta, so why would he make more of a defensive impact for us?

Murray's just a bad target for this team. If you want to bolster our defense we need to get a stopgap center so we stop getting killed in the non-Hartenstein minutes.

Murray is not a bad target at all. Thibs teams are about playing tough defense and we have to compensate for Brunson's lack of D and size at the 1. I can totally understand going after him. Murray didn't suddenly lose the ability to play D and under Thibs he likely will play the strong D he is capable of. Murray certainly isn't the final piece needed but it will need to be judged by what the finished roster construction ends up as.

[WargamesX]

Wargames- I am not opposed to your thought process provided if it was LaVine it'd involve one or more strong fitting Thibs style rugged defensive players like Caruso and Pat Williams. But multiple reports are saying the LaVine market is barren. We would need to get him at our price for it to be worth it. That means with that big contract and his injury prone nature, we'd need one or both of Pat Williams and/or Caruso coming back and not have to give up all that much to do so. That contract is a borderline albatross especially with the looming CBA coming up.

Interestingly both are repped by Rich Paul and Rich Paul suddenly wants a 'clear the air' meeting with us. He knows he needs us in the bidding for either one or both of LaVine and Murray. Truthfully I bet our preference is Murray but depending on cost and the secondary pieces involved in the trade that could change things.

I was talking about a Murray trade being more than we expect. I don’t think Lavine goes to the Knicks. I think he is Laker’s bound. His outside shooting the exact type of third piece Lebron/AD needs right now. Plus Lavine doesn’t want to play for Thibs again.

Wargames I looked deeper into Hunter and I really think you are on to something. While Hunter has been decent he has fallen short of their high expectations of him when they signed him to that 4 year/90M deal.

Both him and Murray on paper seem like much much better fits in a Thibs system than Atlanta.

They also cost 45-50M a year in salary combined against their cap combined for the next 4 years. It seems in theory we would be great trade partners.

What combination would it take ? Im guessing one not both of RJ or IQ and then a Grimes or a Mitchell Robinson and a FRP or 2. Then take whatever is left over add a FRP or 2 and trade for OG.

Dont know if Knicks do it but Im up to trade Hart in this scenario to either Atl or Tor....


Rough minutes distribution:

Robinson (28), Hartenstein (20)

Randle (33), OG(15)

OG(17), Hunter(28), DDV (3)

Murray (23), DDV (25)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)


Much much better fitting pieces in a Thibs system to put around Randle and Brunson. DDV gets minutes now too. We have a rugged backup to Randle that plays elite D and can play at the 3 too (and even spot at the 5).

I still say you move Josh Hart and you get a much more versatile “Thibs” team, and a potential contender if they are healthy. I know he is part of the Villanova crew, but I still think part of the current team’s issue is he isn’t coming with his A game most night and he is part of the combo guard glut since he’s just not tall enough to play Forward.

Robinson (28), Hartenstein (20)
Randle (32), Hunter (16)
Hunter(12), RJ (28) Grimes (8)
Murray (20), DDV (20) Grimes (8)
Brunson (36), Murray (12)

Thibs can run a defensive focused squad to hide Brunson or Randle

Mitch/Hartenstein
Hunter
Grimes
Murray
Brunson

Or

Mitch/Hartenstein
Randle
Hunter
Grimes
Murray

Thibs can put 4 ball handlers on the floor at once

Mitch/Hartenstein
Randle
RJ
Murray
Brunson

Thibs would have the 3 pt shooters (DDV, Grimes, and Hunter) that can fit around around whichever of the four ballhandlers (Brunson, Murray, RJ, and Randle) is having a good game.

They can even go Big

Mitch/Hartenstein
Randle
Hunter
RJ
Murray

All they would need to do is draft a player this Summer that can do a decent job guarding a tall stretch 4/5 for potential matchups with KP/Bam like center and if they’re healthy they got a chance against any team. They also still have pieces to trade for a superstar.

[cgf]

Wargames I looked deeper into Hunter and I really think you are on to something. While Hunter has been decent he has fallen short of their high expectations of him when they signed him to that 4 year/90M deal.

Both him and Murray on paper seem like much much better fits in a Thibs system than Atlanta.

They also cost 45-50M a year in salary combined against their cap combined for the next 4 years. It seems in theory we would be great trade partners.

What combination would it take ? Im guessing one not both of RJ or IQ and then a Grimes or a Mitchell Robinson and a FRP or 2. Then take whatever is left over add a FRP or 2 and trade for OG.

Dont know if Knicks do it but Im up to trade Hart in this scenario to either Atl or Tor....


Rough minutes distribution:

Robinson (28), Hartenstein (20)

Randle (33), OG(15)

OG(17), Hunter(28), DDV (3)

Murray (23), DDV (25)

Brunson (34), Murray (10), McBride (4)


Much much better fitting pieces in a Thibs system to put around Randle and Brunson. DDV gets minutes now too. We have a rugged backup to Randle that plays elite D and can play at the 3 too (and even spot at the 5).

Murray is a career 34.1% 3pt shooter...Hart is a career 34.9% guy and as a knick Julius has shot 33.7% from 3...who has shot 34.4, 32.7, & 31.7% from 3 the past 3 seasons.

Dejounte is off to a hot start this season...shooting almost 1% over league average...but he's a terrible 3pt shooter for a guard and its not like he's stopping anybody in Atlanta, so why would he make more of a defensive impact for us?

Murray's just a bad target for this team. If you want to bolster our defense we need to get a stopgap center so we stop getting killed in the non-Hartenstein minutes.

Murray is not a bad target at all. Thibs teams are about playing tough defense and we have to compensate for Brunson's lack of D and size at the 1. I can totally understand going after him. Murray didn't suddenly lose the ability to play D and under Thibs he likely will play the strong D he is capable of. Murray certainly isn't the final piece needed but it will need to be judged by what the finished roster construction ends up as.

Feels like you're over-rating Murray's defensive impact and ignoring what a horrible fit he'd be for our offense. Swapping IQ for him would make us a worse team, despite Murray being a couple inches taller.

[KnixinSix]

Murray is a career 34.1% 3pt shooter...Hart is a career 34.9% guy and as a knick Julius has shot 33.7% from 3...who has shot 34.4, 32.7, & 31.7% from 3 the past 3 seasons.

Dejounte is off to a hot start this season...shooting almost 1% over league average...but he's a terrible 3pt shooter for a guard and its not like he's stopping anybody in Atlanta, so why would he make more of a defensive impact for us?

Murray's just a bad target for this team. If you want to bolster our defense we need to get a stopgap center so we stop getting killed in the non-Hartenstein minutes.

Murray is not a bad target at all. Thibs teams are about playing tough defense and we have to compensate for Brunson's lack of D and size at the 1. I can totally understand going after him. Murray didn't suddenly lose the ability to play D and under Thibs he likely will play the strong D he is capable of. Murray certainly isn't the final piece needed but it will need to be judged by what the finished roster construction ends up as.

Feels like you're over-rating Murray's defensive impact and ignoring what a horrible fit he'd be for our offense. Swapping IQ for him would make us a worse team, despite Murray being a couple inches taller.

I like IQ a ton but Thibs rightly or wrongly isn't a fan of small ball. I think that's obvious at this point.

[cgf]

Murray is not a bad target at all. Thibs teams are about playing tough defense and we have to compensate for Brunson's lack of D and size at the 1. I can totally understand going after him. Murray didn't suddenly lose the ability to play D and under Thibs he likely will play the strong D he is capable of. Murray certainly isn't the final piece needed but it will need to be judged by what the finished roster construction ends up as.

Feels like you're over-rating Murray's defensive impact and ignoring what a horrible fit he'd be for our offense. Swapping IQ for him would make us a worse team, despite Murray being a couple inches taller.

I like IQ a ton but Thibs rightly or wrongly isn't a fan of small ball. I think that's obvious at this point.

What does Thibs not liking to play without a rim protector have to do with Quickley? I think it's pretty clear that Thibs rates IQ very highly...he played him regularly as a rookie and had no qualms giving him almost 30mpg last season.

DDV has been hot to start this season and we've been abnormally healthy in the backcourt, but both of those will change as the season wears on and IQ's MPG will shoot back up.

[KnixinSix]

Feels like you're over-rating Murray's defensive impact and ignoring what a horrible fit he'd be for our offense. Swapping IQ for him would make us a worse team, despite Murray being a couple inches taller.

I like IQ a ton but Thibs rightly or wrongly isn't a fan of small ball. I think that's obvious at this point.

What does Thibs not liking to play without a rim protector have to do with Quickley? I think it's pretty clear that Thibs rates IQ very highly...he played him regularly as a rookie and had no qualms giving him almost 30mpg last season.

DDV has been hot to start this season and we've been abnormally healthy in the backcourt, but both of those will change as the season wears on and IQ's MPG will shoot back up.

Cgf, Not only did we not sign him to a contract extension we brought in a cheaper alternative at the same spot creating a logjam. Rightly or wrongly, he is very much on the trading block for what they believe is a more ideal fitting piece next to Brunson. Again reading all the contextual clues, I am not saying this is my preference per se moreso what their likely thinking is.

Lineups with IHart, Randle, Hart, Quickley and Brunson have an insane efficiency rate. Read the Katz article. The lineup should in theory play more. But thats not in line I think with how Thibs wants to play.

[cgf]

I like IQ a ton but Thibs rightly or wrongly isn't a fan of small ball. I think that's obvious at this point.

What does Thibs not liking to play without a rim protector have to do with Quickley? I think it's pretty clear that Thibs rates IQ very highly...he played him regularly as a rookie and had no qualms giving him almost 30mpg last season.

DDV has been hot to start this season and we've been abnormally healthy in the backcourt, but both of those will change as the season wears on and IQ's MPG will shoot back up.

Cgf, Not only did we not sign him to a contract extension we brought in a cheaper alternative at the same spot creating a logjam. Rightly or wrongly, he is very much on the trading block for what they believe is a more ideal fitting piece next to Brunson. Again reading all the contextual clues, I am not saying this is my preference per se moreso what their likely thinking is.

We didn't sign him to an extension early when doing so would've prevented us from using IQ in a star player trade if someone like Luka suddenly asked out. Now was that done just because we have his RFA rights and so there was no need to limit our options by re-signing him early? Or was it because our FO/coaching staff have reservations about paying him?

Given how much Thibs has leaned on IQ from a young age, I'm guessing it's the former, but it could be the latter or both. And we brought in DDV because we had the chance to upgrade our 9th man while picking up some SRPs for doing right by a kid who had been a good soldier for most of his Knicks tenure, but wasn't going to get the chance to show his stuff before hitting RFA.

If anything, the fact that we replaced Toppin with a combo guard should be proof that Thibs doesn't mind playing small...provided he still has a rim protector out there. We've seen him use numerous 3 & even 4 guard lineups during his time here...he just needs somebody sitting in the paint for all of those smalls to run around.


Nobody is saying IQ is untouchable...nobody on this roster should be untouchable...just that our FO is probably not looking to dump him for the first name people recognize. They'll look for a good fit for what we need if they end up moving Quickley...and that's not Murray; who would be just as awful next to Brunson as he has been next to Trae